Should all 9 ball tournaments be call shot?

should all 9 ball tournaments be call shot?

  • Yes

    Votes: 52 41.3%

  • No

    Votes: 63 50.0%

  • Does not matter

    Votes: 11 8.7%
  • Total voters
    126
  • Poll closed .
Call everything....

I have seen too many hill-hill matches decided by a 'fluke' shot.

Biggest one lately was a JR National Championship Finals match.......it's a shame someone should have to lose like that. Especially, such a big match.
 
BRKNRUN said:
I have never actually played 9-ball with the push out option (other than right after the break) I did not start playing pool until after that rule was long gone.

I do like the idea of spotting all balls and having to shoot out of the kitchen on a foul.

Bar Box or course would have to remain Texas Express, but there is no reason you can't spot balls on most 9' tables

The only reason I don't like making the game call shot is that if you are hooked and you manage to kick out and pocket a ball (no matter what pocket, you should be rewarded) The call pocket and push out rule would eliminate shots like Efren's 2 rail kick against Earl in a Reno event.

http://www.azbilliards.com/buddyhall/buddy13.php
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It wouldn't take that shot out of the game, just make it even better when he makes it after calling it!

What makes you feel better? pounding a CB 2 or 3 rails hitting OB and seeing it go in any pocket... or.. being hooked on the 8 in 8 ball, calling a pocket, kicking perfect 2 or 3 rails and having it go in that pocket. I like the feeling of making great shots not making a hit and getting lucky. I know playing someone making the above shots, one I want to break my cue over their head or my own head and the other I clap.

I think introducing more skill to the game would put distance between the top guys and I don't see anything wrong with that. Rather than changing games to 10 ball etc, trying a few changes to 9 ball first wouldn't be so bad.
 
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Gerry said:
if we have to keep thinking of ways to change the rules to make 9 ball better, the game is flawed.....why not just leave the Texas express rules alone, or play 10 ball.

when is the last time the rules were changed for one pocket? 14.1?
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TAP-TAP-TAP....SPF=randyg
 
Nostroke said:
I like Grady's rules- If you miss without calling safe and leave your opponent hooked or otherwise at a disadvantage, he can give it back to you. You have to pay for your mistake rather than your opponent. There are a few more rules to it than that but that is the key part imo.

If you really look, you will find some minor disadvantages to Grady's rules but these minor disadvantages are clearly outweighed by the advantages.
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Doesn't that eliminate the two way shot?
 
Permitting opponents the option of giving back a position after a miss would greatly devalue nine ball.

Most of the art and beauty in nine ball is found in the defense, kicking and two way shots. Call shot with the option to give back after a miss removes a significant part of the skill factor, which is too big a price to pay to eliminate the occasional slop. Texas Express Nine Ball has always done a great job of sorting out the best from the rest.

In an era in which seemingly everyone can run the table once they get an open look at a runnable table, defense, kicking and two-way shots often tell the story.

Nine ball as a runout contest only is about the most boring game ever played on a pool table, as the runout protion of the game is so repetitious and routine. Those who find anything but runout nine ball objectionable should stick to playing the ghost.

Texas Express Nine Ball, by allowing defense and offense to be played simulataneously, has much of the majesty that one-pocket enjoys. Neither game requires shots to be called, but the rules of each, because they make two-way shots indispensable, are conducive to maximum use of creativity and imagination. Because of this, it always shocks me when proponents of one-pocket have a problem with Texas Express Nine Ball.

Call shot without the option to give back after a miss is somewhat less objectionable, but eliminates some multi-purpose shots that can be counted as among the most interesting shots the game of nine ball has to offer. Still, I prefer it to the old "one shot shootout" version of nine ball which I played as a teen.
 
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Calling only the 9 ball is stupid. I have lost several matches because my opponent miss the 8 ball so bad that it went 3 rails into the side pocket and had straight in on the 9 ball.

This has happened more times to me than someone $hitting in the 9 ball.
 
Absolutely. Why wouldn't we want to decrease the luck factor as much as possible in a such a game of skill?
 
How about a poll where we ask: What rules do you think would be most entertaining for the average television viewer?

Because that is the most important thing for this sport!
 
Take into consideration that the average television viewer might want to watch pool played by rules that they are familiar with and rules that make exciting turns of events happen.
 
I like calling the 9 and always use this rule when gambling with weaker opponents. I would not mind call shot either, it becomes more about skill and how can that be a bad thing? For the higher level players, I think this is much less of an issue.
Flukeing in a ball becomes much less likely the better the player and would not IMO, effect the games "TV" friendly appeal.
 
The question was "Should all 9 ball tournaments be call shot?" and I said no.

I am probably a C+/ B- player, but to me personally I would enter a call shot, or rather call POCKET tourney. I wouldn't want to be part of anything where I have to call every kiss and carom. The time spent resolving arguements would be too much to bear.
If everyone has to play by the same rules it's fair. The luck factor encourages weaker players to get involved in playing tourneys. Luck is rarely a factor in the outcome with top level players, so it shouldn't matter to them. The weaker player will compete because he feels he is getting some sort of advantage by allowing for luck. This is not statistically the case. Leave the rules the way they are. The cream always rises to the top.

:cool:
 
Jason Robichaud said:
I would like to see the players ratings that vote no call. I would think anyone able to run tables would vote, call shot.
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I voted "no" because I think that the ability to play two-way offensive shots in 9-ball is a useful and legitimate part of the game, and I wouldn't want to see a rule implemented that would destroy that. I don't think there's anything wrong with playing a bank off the short rail while at the same time rolling at a ball that's hanging in a nearby corner pocket, and I think that a player should get to continue shooting if he/she pockets either one of those balls. I personally don't consider that slop, and very seldom do I see cases where a player is blatantly blasting at groups of balls, hoping to slop something in, even at the lowest skill levels.

I also believe that most of the luck that occurs in a game of nine-ball is due to players missing shots and getting lucky leaves as opposed to slopping in balls, and there's no "call shot" rule that's going to prevent lucky leaves. Especially at the professional level, I think you would find find that there are many more cases of someone missing and getting a lucky leave than someone slopping in a ball. Those numbers would undoubtedly be different at the amateur level, but I would still guess that unplanned safeties occur far more often than slopped balls.

Also, at the professional level I would assume that many of the times when a player "slops" a ball are actually cases where a player was hooked, kicked at the ball and accidentally made it. If you're going to punish a player in a situation like that, then I think you need to be really careful as to how you go about it. I personally feel that it's safer and fairer to reward the player who kicked the ball in than it is to reward the player sitting in the chair.

All that being said, I do feel that calling the 9-ball is a good rule, and I would also support changing the rules to make a 9 on the snap not count as a win, as the 9-ball rack is so vulnerable to gaps and manipulation. Calling every ball, though, I'm afraid is one of those rules that looks good on the surface, but in reality could take something valuable away from the game, especially if implemented without proper forethought with regard to the implications.

As always, JMHO

Aaron
 
IMO call shot should be required by the players voting YES and the regular rules for the playes voting NO.

Next 'lucky rolls' will be forbidden.

What about making extra balls on the call pocket shot? will they be left DOWN or be Spotted? In numerical order of course.

Will 'Ball in Hand' only be 'in the kitchen'? why give the incoming player shuch a HUGE advantage of being able to put the Cue Ball anywhere on the table after a foul? why not a poll on that?

Eliminate the 'push out' or 'roll out' shots after the break.

In fact, why not rule out LUCK altogether and play poker. :grin-square:
 
"Should all 9 ball tournaments be call shot?"

I'd like to change my answer to "yes".... Stick 9-ball with those lame call-shot rules and then give the good rules, slop counts, to 10-ball. That'll help us to retire 9-ball more quickly. :D :rotflmao1:
 
DelaWho??? said:
I am probably a C+/ B- player, but to me personally I would enter a call shot, or rather call POCKET tourney. I wouldn't want to be part of anything where I have to call every kiss and carom.
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Unless you're playing bar room rules, call shot and call pocket are the same thing. I've never met serious players who thought there was a difference. And, I wouldn't play with people who thought there was.
 
Aaron_S said:
I voted "no" because I think that the ability to play two-way offensive shots in 9-ball is a useful and legitimate part of the game, and I wouldn't want to see a rule implemented that would destroy that. I don't think there's anything wrong with playing a bank off the short rail while at the same time rolling at a ball that's hanging in a nearby corner pocket, and I think that a player should get to continue shooting if he/she pockets either one of those balls. I personally don't consider that slop, and very seldom do I see cases where a player is blatantly blasting at groups of balls, hoping to slop something in, even at the lowest skill levels.

I also believe that most of the luck that occurs in a game of nine-ball is due to players missing shots and getting lucky leaves as opposed to slopping in balls, and there's no "call shot" rule that's going to prevent lucky leaves. Especially at the professional level, I think you would find find that there are many more cases of someone missing and getting a lucky leave than someone slopping in a ball. Those numbers would undoubtedly be different at the amateur level, but I would still guess that unplanned safeties occur far more often than slopped balls.

Also, at the professional level I would assume that many of the times when a player "slops" a ball are actually cases where a player was hooked, kicked at the ball and accidentally made it. If you're going to punish a player in a situation like that, then I think you need to be really careful as to how you go about it. I personally feel that it's safer and fairer to reward the player who kicked the ball in than it is to reward the player sitting in the chair.

All that being said, I do feel that calling the 9-ball is a good rule, and I would also support changing the rules to make a 9 on the snap not count as a win, as the 9-ball rack is so vulnerable to gaps and manipulation. Calling every ball, though, I'm afraid is one of those rules that looks good on the surface, but in reality could take something valuable away from the game, especially if implemented without proper forethought with regard to the implications.

As always, JMHO

Aaron
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Nice post, Aaron. This type of thread always drives me nuts, but I'm always pleased when somebody takes exception to the fact that call shot with the option to decline the position after a miss removes many elements of skill from the game.

So many posters in this type of thread make the comment that call shot removes luck as if it were irrefutable fact. Call shot removes some luck and it also removes some skill from nine ball. It also removes a lot of creativity from the game. Whether it makes the game a greater test of skill is arguable, and I, for one, think it doesn't. I do feel, however, that, by making the game less multi-dimensional, it makes the game of nine ball a greater test of boredom for any fan watching.
 
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