Should all miscues = foul?
- Thread starter DTL
- Start date
rules
I dont think it would go over good in a bar box league.
I can see how it could be ruled a foul
Doesnt make a difference to me, what ever the rules are I will play by them.
MMike
I dont think it would go over good in a bar box league.
I can see how it could be ruled a foul
Doesnt make a difference to me, what ever the rules are I will play by them.
MMike
I believe that fewer clearly understood rules are better for the game. It makes it easier for new people to play the game. The more rules the more room for argument. Though in my history with the game, I've met quite a few that would rather argue over the rules than play pool.
As such, they would welcome any rule they thought would be to their advantage in getting the all important win. If your proposed rule were to be adopted it would potentially be beneficial for another "High Dollar" line of specialty tips and chalks that promise to prevent miscues and thus give you a better chance of winning.
I would highly doubt that there will ever be one universally accepted set of rules that everyone plays by simply because some people will always try to gain an advantage through rule modification and additional rules.
If all miscues are proven to be double hits, fine if they are not proven to be double hits all the time then having the rule is as bad as not having it as it falsely penalizes in either one or the other situation.
For me, keep the rules and the game simple and the game may have more potential to thrive again.
People don't generally call a foul just because of a miscue. When I first started playing, I got wind of this concept and bounced it off a group of good-shooting, well-seasoned players in my local room. They all looked at me like I was from Neptune.
Fatz
Fatz
I have always said the same thing... Nobody calls it a foul so neither do I (BUT) striking the cueball with anything other than your tip is a foul. The sound of a leather tip and a plastic ferrel make two very different sounds. It would be too contriversial of a rule to enforce so it's best just left alone.
Maybe in professional tournaments that play all-ball fouls.
But I wonder how often a person miscues but still makes an otherwise legal shot. Speaking personally, my miscues come from putting too much follow or draw on the cueball and either launching the CB off the table or trapping the CB under the tip of my stick.
-matthew (who also doesn't like instant replay in baseball)
But I wonder how often a person miscues but still makes an otherwise legal shot. Speaking personally, my miscues come from putting too much follow or draw on the cueball and either launching the CB off the table or trapping the CB under the tip of my stick.
-matthew (who also doesn't like instant replay in baseball)
Actually, when trapping the CB under the stick, I would call that a foul. Different animal.
Striking the CB with anything other than the tip is a foul, but not all miscues result in striking the CB with the ferrule.
In fact, I think most miscues are simply the tip losing "grip" on the CB and sliding ineffectively off the CB without ferrule contact. I think the assumption that the ferrule contacts the CB is erroneous.
I bet Dr. Dave has slow motion videos on miscues.
In fact, I think most miscues are simply the tip losing "grip" on the CB and sliding ineffectively off the CB without ferrule contact. I think the assumption that the ferrule contacts the CB is erroneous.
I bet Dr. Dave has slow motion videos on miscues.
Why is it that when you use maximum right hand english it squirts the ball slightly to the left but if you are using maximum right enlgish and miscue it pushes the ball way to the left? I believe it is because the ferrule or shaft is actually pushing the ball over that way, but I could be wrong.
I've miscued on a draw shot on the 8 ball, hopping the cueball a foot into the air and still sank the 8. Was good comedy as we were both on the hill at that point. I can only imagine the look on my opponents face as it first did the crazy hop and then the change as the 8 went down. But I was too busy watching it myself
I've miscued on a draw shot on the 8 ball, hopping the cueball a foot into the air and still sank the 8. Was good comedy as we were both on the hill at that point. I can only imagine the look on my opponents face as it first did the crazy hop and then the change as the 8 went down. But I was too busy watching it myself
That was a foul....
Most miscues are player error, but not 100% of them. I think that's the main reason they aren't treated as fouls. You usually don't want to penalize a player for something that's out of his control.
You could argue that it's still his fault, a center ball hit will never miscue and he shouldn't have been trying extreme spin, or should have paid more attention while chalking his tip.
But realistically, pool requires spin and you can't always get ideal chalk, so the danger of miscue is always there. It would make the game less fun and arguably less fair if you changed the rule. Often you end up missing the OB entirely and fouling anyway.
You could argue that it's still his fault, a center ball hit will never miscue and he shouldn't have been trying extreme spin, or should have paid more attention while chalking his tip.
But realistically, pool requires spin and you can't always get ideal chalk, so the danger of miscue is always there. It would make the game less fun and arguably less fair if you changed the rule. Often you end up missing the OB entirely and fouling anyway.
I don't think it would cause a ton or arguments if the rule applied to everyone. If you miscue and make the ball, foul. If I do the same, foul.
I think any time you double-hit the CB (except when frozen) or touch the CB (during your stroke) with the ferrule or shaft... foul.
I always hear the "would create arguments" concept, but struggle to understand it if the rule was the same for all. That's like complaining about a table roll when both players are playing on the same table.
I believe the rule is miscues aren't a foul because it's "unintentional." Yet scooping is really an intentional miscue. Therefore, if you're hooked "by a hair" and your opponent can't see, you can act like you're drawing the ball and "unintentionally" miscue over the obstruction and make the ball and act like you can't believe you forgot to chalk your tip.
I KNOW I'm clearly in the minority here.... but I've NEVER understood why players fight against "objectivity" when it comes to rules of play.
Words like "intentional," "unintentional," and "obvious" should never be used in the wording of rules. Blanket rules make the most sense:
- If during the stroke you touch the CB w/ the ferrule or shaft, it's a foul.
- If during the stroke you move another ball, it's a foul.
Etc, etc. When the rules are setup in certain, objective terms (and people learn the game with those objective terms), there are no fights -- it's outcome-based.
Unfortunately, we all play a game of subjectivity in a lot of areas:
Player A) "Sorry, I didn't mean to move that ball. I'll put that back...."
Player B) "HEY!! THE BALL WASN'T THERE, PAL!!!" (moves it to where it was)
Player A) "Gimme a break, C'mon dude. You know it was right here >>>>"X".
Player B) *unscrews*
or
Someone shoots the 9ball and you hear the *CLACK* *CLACK* of the shaft bashing into the CB and the player makes the 9ball. OOPS -- wow, I can't believe I made it!! I got lucky to make it with a miscue!!
(my opinion, the guy made it during a foul and the rules allow him to chalk a win because it was unintentional).
It is what it is and my rant would never change things.
Objectivity = good
Subjectivity = bad
Not based on the rules. It was an unintentional miscue due to draw, not a scoop. Read my post above.
That's exactly my point. It's retarded.
I am not one to go siting rules right out of the rule book, but I am 90% sure that is most major tournaments and the BCA that a "scoop" misscue is a foul... The CB is on top of your cue....
I've had lots of mis-cues that weren't fouls.
Therefore, I won't call a foul on someone who mis-cues.
Hell, any masse shot is technically a foul...
..you're trapping the cue-ball between your tip and the cloth.
...but nobody calls it a foul....
...and that's fine with me.
Therefore, I won't call a foul on someone who mis-cues.
Hell, any masse shot is technically a foul...
..you're trapping the cue-ball between your tip and the cloth.
...but nobody calls it a foul....
...and that's fine with me.
A scoop is an intentional jump shot.... foul. The exact same thing that is the result of an unintentional miscue is legal. Meaning, the shooter didn't intentionally jump the CB when there wasn't anything to jump in between the CB/OB on the case ball. Therefore, legal.
Crazy, right?