Should high woman be paid ?

[rackmsuckr]

If that practice brings larger fields for the men's tournaments it is fine. More money to split. What a great idea......SPF=randyg

Thanks, you bring up a good reason...it actually benefits the prize fund by bringing in more fish. Very few women regionally are even able to break into the money. A few, like me, have spouses that play in all the local weekend tournaments. Even fewer women play along with them. Many want the experience of playing with the big boys, but other than getting their brains bashed in every time, will not put up their entry fees if there is nothing to play for except the experience.

Having a high woman prize does provide a tournament within a tournament where the 3-7 women have something to play for. If the woman should get into the money, they are then considered a "player" and the HW prize goes down to the next highest placing female out of the money.

Is it sexist? Yes. Does it bring in more players and entries into the prize fund? Absolutely! You take those 3-7 women at a $50 entry fee, and you have just added an extra $100 - $300 into the prize fund, while paying out the equivalent of last place money, which is usually around the entry fee $ amount.

It is not done usually with less than 3 women players, so it is self-funded. I also think having the women in a tournament adds interest to the tournament as well.

This is certainly a divisive subject, but if we had all the players we needed at every tournament, then it probably would not be done. However, for a growth sport, I think an extra incentive to get the ladies out and get the experience when they wouldn't otherwise, is a good thing and shouldn't be begrudged, IMHO.

 

[Handsumm]

If women are too keep saying "We are equal or better.." and all that well proven stuff, then why do we need to do all of this free entry and high finishing woman stuff?

Men can't play on the WPBA or WPGA. Only the greatest women can keep up with above average men. That is why they need a "spot."

I don't care what type of flame war this starts, but everyone knows that men are better suited for physical activity. That is why we segregate them in sports (although we do let women play men's sports with no outcry whatsoever). Not to say that the top females couldn't beat up on good male pro players, but not top male players.
Example: I have seen women's Masters play "B and below" tournaments and get smoked.
(Yes, I have been beaten by women before many times.)


Aside from all of that, there are not as many women's tournaments, so we of course let them play and try to make it more appealing to them.

I like the idea of high-finishing female, because it increases the pot by drawing more women. Besides, I like to play women. They don't ***** and cry as much as men do when you beat them.

Summary: Women NEED sexism to be equal in sports.

And, no Linda, I am not propositioning you or any other of your sharpshootin' friends to a money game. You'll make me stick my foot in my mouth all too quickly!

 

[poolpro]

sexism in pool

You really can't win this no matter what. Anything that you do to favor or hinder a player based only on their gender is in fact sexist. I really believe that there should only be open events or handicapped or grouped by skill, not gender. I have run many tournaments and never make any decisions based on the sex of a player.

Women have fought for equality in all things, and then still want preferential treatment, not fair! The only way to not be sexist or chauvanistic is to treat all players the same. You cannot complain about a practice that favors a player based on gender and ask for reduced or free entry fees in the same breath!

I DO respect and encourage female players in this game, but do not believe in special treatment. I believe that there is absolutely NO reason that a female player cannot play as well as a male player. That is part of what makes this game great. You do not have an automatic advantage just by being male. There are no weight classes, etc. I do believe that the level of play on the mens side is superior though. There is a simple (non sexist) reason for this. Pool has historically been a male dominated sport. Right or wrong that is a fact. More men play pool than women. So obviously if there are more men playing then women, the top ten men will play better than the women. Just like the best player in any paticular room or city is not as good as the best player in the state or country. Simple mathematics. Best player out of 25 players, or the best player out of 500 players, who will win?

Actually the ONLY reason I can think of that women players will continue be less skillful than the male players is by keeping a separate tour and special treatment for them. If women are forced to play on the same playing field with the same expectations as men, they will be forced to play up to the level of competition. And I believe that they will succeed if given the opportunity. It is a fact that the better your opponent, the more you will improve.

Any woman who takes any special treatment for being female, forever loses the right to be offended when someone says " you play pretty good, FOR A GIRL". !!!!

 

[Handsumm]

You really can't win this no matter what. Anything that you do to favor or hinder a player based only on their gender is in fact sexist. I really believe that there should only be open events or handicapped or grouped by skill, not gender. I have run many tournaments and never make any decisions based on the sex of a player.

Women have fought for equality in all things, and then still want preferential treatment, not fair! The only way to not be sexist or chauvanistic is to treat all players the same. You cannot complain about a practice that favors a player based on gender and ask for reduced or free entry fees in the same breath!

I DO respect and encourage female players in this game, but do not believe in special treatment. I believe that there is absolutely NO reason that a female player cannot play as well as a male player. That is part of what makes this game great. You do not have an automatic advantage just by being male. There are no weight classes, etc. I do believe that the level of play on the mens side is superior though. There is a simple (non sexist) reason for this. Pool has historically been a male dominated sport. Right or wrong that is a fact. More men play pool than women. So obviously if there are more men playing then women, the top ten men will play better than the women. Just like the best player in any paticular room or city is not as good as the best player in the state or country. Simple mathematics. Best player out of 25 players, or the best player out of 500 players, who will win?

Actually the ONLY reason I can think of that women players will continue be less skillful than the male players is by keeping a separate tour and special treatment for them. If women are forced to play on the same playing field with the same expectations as men, they will be forced to play up to the level of competition. And I believe that they will succeed if given the opportunity. It is a fact that the better your opponent, the more you will improve.

Any woman who takes any special treatment for being female, forever loses the right to be offended when someone says " you play pretty good, FOR A GIRL". !!!!

Very well-put. I will agree with you on the male-dominated sport thing, but not by too much. There are many women who play pool now with all the leagues and tourneys going on. I would be interested to find out exactly how much difference there is in the total number of players men vs. women.

 

[Ktown D]

I see the double standard, I have been the highest guy at many tournaments and never saw a dime from it.

On a related topic--TK was running a tournament around here and he always pays high junior and high female. Well, the tournament was about to start and he had no kids or ladies signed up. My daughter happened to be 1 at the time so I figured she would double dip the awards. I told him I would be back with her in a few minutes. Tommy didn't find the humor in that

 

[poolpro]

yes, there are many female players and more everyday in leagues etc. But there are many , many more male players. I would guess that in any national league, it is aprox 80% male or more. On that topic, in the APA a first time female player starts with a lower handicap than a first time male player.

 

[ironman]

I think that a reduced or free entry would bring more women into an event, though it is still technically sexist. I can actually understand the desire to get more female participation, but I doubt that paying top woman achieves the goal. And I think it would much more fair if a woman's ability to earn prize money depended upon her skill rather than her gender.

If paying less for entries, why pay the same?

 

[Stones]

In our neck of the woods, the ladies get a game on the wire in a race to 5 in most of the weekly tourneys. We have a few ladies that would still play without the spot.
Vivian V. used to play occasionally in the weeklys but she always declined the spot.

I guess the whole issue is based on whether you live in the same town as Allison or Karen.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

That it is illegal to show preferential treatment in any way to women. Though hardly enforced it is against the law. For instance, if you have a free ladies night(which I do) if a guy walks up and says I want to play free too, you must adhere to his request or you would be breaking the law. There are a couple of cases around that went to court over it.

Maybe you're right, but I would go to jail defending my right to choose that ladies will play for free for example one night a month. Stupid rule.

 

[nfty9er]

Now that is funny

Bahh! This one is easy to solve.. Let him know that if he insists on free pool, that's cool. Let him know you'll have to announce over the PA that due to a disagreement over the fairness over the free ladies night, all ladies are now on time or paying for all their drinks. Let him know you will direct all pissed off customers, both male and female over to him to talk about it.

Then tell him, "Yeah, you're right. You have a right to be treated the same as everyone else. I have to make a living. Getting women in here for free gets men in, who pay. If you insist on pushing this, I have no choice to comply. But every boyfriend in here whose table time is gonna double from this minute forward is gonna have something to say to you about it. You still wanna push it?"

That's the way I would handle a joker like that..

Russ

I am going to print this out and keep it by the checkout area and I or any of my employees will be instructed to follow your solution to the tee.

LOL
P.S. In over a year and a half no one has every questioned ladies night. I also now have college night free pool for all currently enrolled students.

 

[Russ Chewning]

I am going to print this out and keep it by the checkout area and I or any of my employees will be instructed to follow your solution to the tee.

LOL
P.S. In over a year and a half no one has every questioned ladies night. I also now have college night free pool for all currently enrolled students.

Glad I could help, man..

Russ