Should the ref stop a player from fouling?

easy-e

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Watching the US Open match between Deuel and Filler. Corey kicked and didn't hit the OB. The ball was still slowly rolling and it looked like Filler was reaching for it when Ken Shuman put his hand out letting Filler know that he'd give him BIH.

It's certainly not a foul I'd ever call, but in a tournament where they're so sensitive about rules, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that was Ken's place to stop Fuller from fouling.
 
In snooker, the ref must not instruct the player....it’s a good rule.
 
easy-e said:
Watching the US Open match between Deuel and Filler. Corey kicked and didn't hit the OB. The ball was still slowly rolling and it looked like Filler was reaching for it when Ken Shuman put his hand out letting Filler know that he'd give him BIH.

It's certainly not a foul I'd ever call, but in a tournament where they're so sensitive about rules, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that was Ken's place to stop Fuller from fouling.
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No, in general I think you're right that a ref shouldn't stop a foul. But in this situation it's not really different from a player getting the balls ready for the next game and picking up the cue ball a little early before it completely stops rolling. I don't think many refs would call that foul in either case.
 
BRussell said:
No, in general I think you're right that a ref shouldn't stop a foul. But in this situation it's not really different from a player getting the balls ready for the next game and picking up the cue ball a little early before it completely stops rolling. I don't think many refs would call that foul in either case.
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Normally I'd agree with you. But haven't we all seen Ken call a foul on a guy for placing the CB with BIH?
 
Good rule of thumb for all pool players - Don't pick up the cue ball until it stops rolling! That can be called a foul and I've seen it happen many times. In most cases I make a ruling based on the speed and path of the cue ball, unless there is a hard and fast rule in effect, which is not always the case. I believe in making rulings based on the best interests of fair play. Now if the cue ball is rolling anywhere near to and in the direction of a pocket, it may certainly be called a foul. I've seen that happen as well.
 
easy-e said:
Watching the US Open match between Deuel and Filler. Corey kicked and didn't hit the OB. The ball was still slowly rolling and it looked like Filler was reaching for it when Ken Shuman put his hand out letting Filler know that he'd give him BIH.

It's certainly not a foul I'd ever call, but in a tournament where they're so sensitive about rules, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that was Ken's place to stop Fuller from fouling.
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Nope. The ref should never interfere with the actions of a player.
 
easy-e said:
Normally I'd agree with you. But haven't we all seen Ken call a foul on a guy for placing the CB with BIH?
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Are you talking about that Boyes foul during the Mosconi Cup for measuring (that was retracted)?
 
Yet, when Boyes called a foul on Daulton at last year's open, and it was enforced by the ref, all of AZ said bull shit, and blamed Boyes for being petty.

Pool should have iron clad rules. No wishy washy stuff. You pick up the cb when its still moving, automatic foul, no questions asked. You show up 5 min late to your match, automatic 2 game penalty, no questions asked. Etc, etc.

If we have enforcers for the actual rules, players would learn them inside and out, in one day. Guaranteed.

Its all the wishy washiness of rule enforcement that causes the players to be lax.
 
BRussell said:
Are you talking about that Boyes foul during the Mosconi Cup for measuring (that was retracted)?
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Yes. I just used that as an example as to how ticky-tack these rules can be and how fast they are "enforced". I think we need black and white rules that are consistently enforced, but that will never happen.
 
easy-e said:
Watching the US Open match between Deuel and Filler. Corey kicked and didn't hit the OB. The ball was still slowly rolling and it looked like Filler was reaching for it when Ken Shuman put his hand out letting Filler know that he'd give him BIH.

It's certainly not a foul I'd ever call, but in a tournament where they're so sensitive about rules, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that was Ken's place to stop Fuller from fouling.
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If the ball is obviously coming to a stop and is not near any balls or a pocket, I see no harm. I know by the letter of the law it is a foul but Cmon....
I see many fans complain about not having shot clocks and then we want to bicker about a guy wanting to pick up a slow rolling cue ball which will save a couple seconds. We need to focus on true fouls and not worry about petty stuff like this.
 
Absolutely not. They should be impartial to both parties and remain incognito until a foul has been committed.
 
tucson9ball said:
If the ball is obviously coming to a stop and is not near any balls or a pocket, I see no harm. I know by the letter of the law it is a foul but Cmon....
I see many fans complain about not having shot clocks and then we want to bicker about a guy wanting to pick up a slow rolling cue ball which will save a couple seconds. We need to focus on true fouls and not worry about petty stuff like this.
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I agree with you. I'd never call that a foul, but these guys seem awfully hung up on small rules like this, so it struck me as odd.
 
easy-e said:
I agree with you. I'd never call that a foul, but these guys seem awfully hung up on small rules like this, so it struck me as odd.
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But this is the root problem. As players, we are too lax amongst ourselves. That carries over to pro events too. You can't have it both ways. Either lax on everything, or come down with an iron fist.
 
iusedtoberich said:
But this is the root problem. As players, we are too lax amongst ourselves. That carries over to pro events too. You can't have it both ways. Either lax on everything, or come down with an iron fist.
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This is exactly how I feel. All or none.
 
easy-e said:
Watching the US Open match between Deuel and Filler. Corey kicked and didn't hit the OB. The ball was still slowly rolling and it looked like Filler was reaching for it when Ken Shuman put his hand out letting Filler know that he'd give him BIH.

It's certainly not a foul I'd ever call, but in a tournament where they're so sensitive about rules, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that was Ken's place to stop Fuller from fouling.
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No, it also happened a few times in other matches, the Mosconi cup when a Euro player pocketed the 9 for the match and threw the cue on the table. The cue ball was still moving and hit it. Should have been called a foul. And a few times I have seen the ref move a cue from the table that a player left. Unless you are playing in a beginner match where someone really does not know the rules, the ref needs to stay out of it till it's time to call something as a foul or explain something if asked.
 
hang-the-9 said:
No, it also happened a few times in other matches, the Mosconi cup when a Euro player pocketed the 9 for the match and threw the cue on the table. The cue ball was still moving and hit it. Should have been called a foul. And a few times I have seen the ref move a cue from the table that a player left. Unless you are playing in a beginner match where someone really does not know the rules, the ref needs to stay out of it till it's time to call something as a foul or explain something if asked.
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I think I remember that Mosconi incident. Didn't Neils toss the cue on the table in celebration and the ref damn near dove to move it before the ball hit it?:thumbup:
 
Well...........

I would say the ref calls fouls and does not stop a player from committing a foul.

Then as usual what Jay H. said on the topic makes sense too.

Like most things, a strict following of the rules by every one avoids many issues and is the best way to go, as hoping for a "sense of fair play" in a competitive sport is wishful thinking. But, I wish it was that way.
 
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