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Should there be a new aiming sub forum?
- Thread starter SUPERSTAR
- Start date
Actually, they just couldn't find the right pivot point to go from the main forum to an aiming forum. :thumbup:
Folks:
Let's not let this get out of hand. JoeyA does have a valid point, and while healthy debate is a good thing, I think we should keep any name-calling or sarcasm out of it. Pointing out flaws in one's stance in the debate is one thing; mockery is quite another.
Let's try to keep this civil and on the up-and-up. I really do think a subforum is going to solve a whole boatload of problems, as mentioned in the posts thus far. Honest. I really do.
-Sean
Let's not let this get out of hand. JoeyA does have a valid point, and while healthy debate is a good thing, I think we should keep any name-calling or sarcasm out of it. Pointing out flaws in one's stance in the debate is one thing; mockery is quite another.
Let's try to keep this civil and on the up-and-up. I really do think a subforum is going to solve a whole boatload of problems, as mentioned in the posts thus far. Honest. I really do.
-Sean
Sean,
You always post in good taste and make excellent points even if I don't always agree with them.
I probably won't go to a sub forum for aiming systems. It just wouldn't be in my interest.
There may be others who prefer a subforum for the aiming system threads but it appears to be primarily the very people who don't like aiming systems.
I don't care for porn or female degradation. Yeah, I know, what kind of guy am I? Maybe we should have a separate forum for those avatars that show women in some of those slutty positions. Please don't misunderstand me. I like women. No, I love women but I don't care to see them degraded in such a manner as I see in some of the avatars and "funny" picture threads. Hell, I don't like seeing the men caricatures that degrade some of the men.
There are a dozen other topics that I either resent or just don't care to read. I don't make a big deal about it because even if I don't care for the threads, the topics, the posts or the pictures, someone in the Main Forum seems to get some enjoyment from them. I can just choose to not open the offending thread or not look at the less than classy pictures.
I don't want to sit here and tell others that they should start a sub forum for their personal tastes. There are lots of non pool related subjects in the main forum but there is very little movement to get that moved to the NPR forum. Every once in a while, I see a picture of a really good looking woman in a not too absurd of a pose with just enough clothes on to interest me but at the same time enough clothes to make me think she might have a little class and say "wow".
I'm just about done with this subject and don't see much value in making any further points. There are plenty of holes in my perspective for others to take some pot shots at but I'm just not interested in debating this subject.
If the majority of the aiming thread enthusiasts were interested in starting a sub forum I would support them in a heartbeat.
Since they don't appear to want that, I can't support the desire to create a sub forum.
None of the forum members have the right to push the aiming thread enthusiasts off into a dark little corner of AZ Billiards.
Aiming threads have far more value and right to be in the main forum than a lot of the subjects already in the main forum, whether you agree with the principles they are discussing or not.
JoeyA
I just don't get this type of thinking.
No one is pushing ANYONE into a dark little corner.
I simply asked a question that i wanted public opinion on. And people responded to that question. You can disagree with the question all you like, but realistically, there IS no right answer. There is only opinion.
I still don't understand the reasoning that people use to rationalize getting a sub forum as something negative. And still, no one has addressed the fact that in a sub forum, there would be a collection of knowledge. One that would be easier to access and draw from.
No one seems to wants to talk about that.
Regardless there is absolutely no guarantee that Mike Howerton is going to do ANYTHING as a result of this thread.
But apparently the topic also peaked his interest as well.
But if anything, one would hope that IF a decision is made, that it's not made simply because of majority yes or no opinion.
If anything, all arguments and opinions discussed in this thread should be weighed to better determine what is in the best interest of the forum as a whole.
Joey made a huge point
This is about opinions and in my opinion Joey made a huge point. All other subforums were created at the request of the people that wanted to talk about something I believe. It appears that most of the votes for a aiming or CTE subforum are driven by the fact that the voters are tired of seeing the threads on the main forum.
Of course Joey was right about there being a heck of a lot of things that are less pool related on the main forum too. One thing about the aiming threads, they are usually titled so that you know what you are getting into when you click on one. If you get involved in most of the train wrecks it is by choice.
Hu
This is about opinions and in my opinion Joey made a huge point. All other subforums were created at the request of the people that wanted to talk about something I believe. It appears that most of the votes for a aiming or CTE subforum are driven by the fact that the voters are tired of seeing the threads on the main forum.
Of course Joey was right about there being a heck of a lot of things that are less pool related on the main forum too. One thing about the aiming threads, they are usually titled so that you know what you are getting into when you click on one. If you get involved in most of the train wrecks it is by choice.
Hu
If the people who enjoy talking/writing about aiming systems actually WANTED A SUB-FORUM, they would have petitioned Mike for one.
It is apparent at least to me, that those people DO NOT WANT A SUB FORUM ABOUT aiming systems.
I really don't understand your thinking. While there may or may not be some benefits to a sub-forum for aiming systems, it is clear to me that the majority of the aiming system posters, just plain don't want a sub forum. How can you not get that?
For me personally, I like reading about the aiming systems and yes, using them. I try not to get caught up in all of the drama but it seems that some people just try to suck you in. If the aiming system discussions were in a sub forum, it is unlikely that I would read about them.
JoeyA
Why is that, because of the lack of drama, or because you refuse to click on a sub forum?
If it's the latter, then it sounds like you are being stubborn.
Stubbornness is not a valid argument.
Arguing isn't my forte. You can argue with anyone you like until Mike gets tired of you provoking people but I think I'll pass on the arguing.
Your anonymity allows you to provoke people without much accountability but you should know that you aren't quite as anonymous as you think you are.
For me, I don't care much for drama so I'll go find another thread to read and post in.
JoeyA
Folks:
It's not supposed to come down to this -- arguing and sticking fingers in each other's eyes. Please! Healthy debate, yes. Stance-weakness revelations and civil reasoning, yes. Eye-poking and mockery, no.
Me personally, I find myself actively perusing the various forums and subforums -- clicking them, reading/digesting, posting, etc. You'll find my posts in all sorts of forums -- Snooker, 14.1 straight pool, Carom billiards, the Main forum, Tournament talk, Ask the pros, etc. I don't sit in the Main forum and wait for the tide to wash over me. My view is, there's lots of great stuff out there, you have to actively go get it -- it certainly ain't coming to you! That's just me, my preference. And, although I'm posting here in favor of a subforum for aiming system threads, if it comes to fruition, I myself will be one of its first customers! Heck, I have no problem admitting that I joined John Barton's "CTE students" moderated forum on Yahoo! And if I remember correctly, with John himself being an aiming system supporter / devotee, he voted for the subforum for the same reasons already stated. (To clear up any confusion about my involvement, as I'd made clear countless times, my *only* problem with aiming system threads are the sheer number of them, the lion's share of which are duplicates of each other, and the greatly exaggerated sales pitches tacked into every one. Barring these issues, even though I'm satisfied with my current ability to aim, I'm sincerely interested in knowing *how* systems work; it's that inquisitive part of me that needs satisfying. I relish those "Aha -- so *that's* how that works!" moments that I treasure.)
Without trying to jinx it, so far on this poll, the numbers seem to be speaking for themselves -- nearly twice as many folks want to see a subforum created over those that don't. I honestly don't think all of the "pro" votes are "aiming system haters." A good portion? Maybe. All of them? Certainly not.
Again, let's keep this civil. Lively/healthy debate? G-o-o-d. Eye-poking, mockery, or name-calling? B-A-D!
-Sean
It's not supposed to come down to this -- arguing and sticking fingers in each other's eyes. Please! Healthy debate, yes. Stance-weakness revelations and civil reasoning, yes. Eye-poking and mockery, no.
Me personally, I find myself actively perusing the various forums and subforums -- clicking them, reading/digesting, posting, etc. You'll find my posts in all sorts of forums -- Snooker, 14.1 straight pool, Carom billiards, the Main forum, Tournament talk, Ask the pros, etc. I don't sit in the Main forum and wait for the tide to wash over me. My view is, there's lots of great stuff out there, you have to actively go get it -- it certainly ain't coming to you! That's just me, my preference. And, although I'm posting here in favor of a subforum for aiming system threads, if it comes to fruition, I myself will be one of its first customers! Heck, I have no problem admitting that I joined John Barton's "CTE students" moderated forum on Yahoo! And if I remember correctly, with John himself being an aiming system supporter / devotee, he voted for the subforum for the same reasons already stated. (To clear up any confusion about my involvement, as I'd made clear countless times, my *only* problem with aiming system threads are the sheer number of them, the lion's share of which are duplicates of each other, and the greatly exaggerated sales pitches tacked into every one. Barring these issues, even though I'm satisfied with my current ability to aim, I'm sincerely interested in knowing *how* systems work; it's that inquisitive part of me that needs satisfying. I relish those "Aha -- so *that's* how that works!" moments that I treasure.)
Without trying to jinx it, so far on this poll, the numbers seem to be speaking for themselves -- nearly twice as many folks want to see a subforum created over those that don't. I honestly don't think all of the "pro" votes are "aiming system haters." A good portion? Maybe. All of them? Certainly not.
Again, let's keep this civil. Lively/healthy debate? G-o-o-d. Eye-poking, mockery, or name-calling? B-A-D!
-Sean
Now it's about provoking people an anonymity? Please.
Realistically, what i said was true.
You can provide opinion for or against with valid reasons, but throwing in that you are not going to check out any aiming sub forum because you simply don't like the idea of a sub forum, that's being more emotional then anything.
That is not to say that you aren't allowed to feel that way, but emotional sentiment, for or against isn't going to sway anyone one way or the other.
Just look at how some of the other emotional sentiments went down in this thread.
You had a couple of posters, basically toss in the kitchen sink at myself and sfleinen, when they couldn't argue against certain points being expressed.
It did absolutely nothing for their position.
If people are going to express opinions for or against sub forums, sentiment really doesn't have a place in those opinions if it taints them or makes them invalid.
Like i said before. I hope that IF a decision is made, that it's NOT based on a majority vote, but rather, the opinions expressed in this thread and all the issues that have been brought to light.
As far as the vote is concerned.
For all we know, half the YES voters voted cause they are sick of seeing aiming threads, and half the NO voters voted that way simply because it was MY POLL.
So personally, i think that the opinions and well constructed arguments are worth more then the actual votes, and that's what what people should focus on whether they are for or against it.
Realistically, what i said was true.
You can provide opinion for or against with valid reasons, but throwing in that you are not going to check out any aiming sub forum because you simply don't like the idea of a sub forum, that's being more emotional then anything.
That is not to say that you aren't allowed to feel that way, but emotional sentiment, for or against isn't going to sway anyone one way or the other.
Just look at how some of the other emotional sentiments went down in this thread.
You had a couple of posters, basically toss in the kitchen sink at myself and sfleinen, when they couldn't argue against certain points being expressed.
It did absolutely nothing for their position.
If people are going to express opinions for or against sub forums, sentiment really doesn't have a place in those opinions if it taints them or makes them invalid.
Like i said before. I hope that IF a decision is made, that it's NOT based on a majority vote, but rather, the opinions expressed in this thread and all the issues that have been brought to light.
As far as the vote is concerned.
For all we know, half the YES voters voted cause they are sick of seeing aiming threads, and half the NO voters voted that way simply because it was MY POLL.
So personally, i think that the opinions and well constructed arguments are worth more then the actual votes, and that's what what people should focus on whether they are for or against it.
Read the part in red. That is not why we stopped posting. We stopped posting because we made our point, and left it at that. We are not trying to see who can argue the most. All this arguing is stupid, and not worth the time. State your point, and be done with it.
No matter what anyone says against moving it, you will come up with some other reason to move it. Then, you get some kind of satisfaction of 'winning' when others just see no point in arguing against someone that just likes to argue.
I don't think we need a sub-forum for aiming.
Well, hasn't John gone far beyond petitioning for a sub-group, by going off and creating his yahoo group?
Seems to me, that as far as being shunted off into a corner and off the main forum and into the wilderness, he's already accomplished that AND taken AZ members, posts, hits, views, etc. with him... At least an AZ sub-forum on this topic would keep them "in-house," so-to-speak.
Lou Figueroa
never participates
in aiming threads
Sub forum
No, it should not have it's own sub forum. The forum is getting TOO FRAGMENTED now. Most of these sub forums (except the for sale/wanted)
are not used that much, and even when they are, there are only 2-3 people in them. 2-3 people using it at a time does not justify a sub forum, in my opinion, and I developed Computer Systems for 30 years.
The only aiming system is contact point, all others are 'compensation' systems, and the posters that chase all the aiming systems are still looking for that magic wand that will make them a pro overnight.
No, it should not have it's own sub forum. The forum is getting TOO FRAGMENTED now. Most of these sub forums (except the for sale/wanted)
are not used that much, and even when they are, there are only 2-3 people in them. 2-3 people using it at a time does not justify a sub forum, in my opinion, and I developed Computer Systems for 30 years.
The only aiming system is contact point, all others are 'compensation' systems, and the posters that chase all the aiming systems are still looking for that magic wand that will make them a pro overnight.
My question is ... why not? I'm not trying to provoke anything here, I'm genuinely curious. It seems to me like a sub-forum offers the benefit of having all of that information in one place without sifting through everything like you would in the Main Forum.
I know people keep saying that the pro-aiming system crowd doesn't want a sub-forum, but I don't recall anyone saying why they don't.
I'm not part of the aiming system crowd, but I'll take a stab at this:
It's because, if you give this topic a sub forum, those in "the crowd" will no longer have the main stage to garner attention.
The 14.1 crowd actually cares about 14.1 and discussing all things 14.1, no matter how inane or minute, and could give a hoot about the attention and drama. That's why they asked, have, and enjoy a sub forum. But *some* of "the crowd," (the leaders of the band, perhaps) if you do a search/review of all their posts, it's wall-to-wall CTE. Put them in a sub-forum -- where they just get to stare at each other, mit out all the attention and drama and flames -- and it's like: Where's the fun in THAT!?
But that's just a guess.
Lou Figueroa
whadda I know