Simonis 860HR Problems...

R

rrussoniello

New member
Hi there,

Just recovered the 12 tables in my room with 860HR back in January and have had a big problem with tables needing to be restretched this past month. To a point where you could grab almost an inch of cloth on each table. The guy I use to recover has been doing my personal table and this room's tables for the last 12+ years and never had a problem with him, does great work. Is it possible we got a bad ream of cloth or has anyone else had this issue? If it was just one or two tables, I would blame the installer, but it was ever table and even after being restretched last week, he feels they need it again as they are loosening up even more.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!

Richard
Dragon's Lair Billiards & Bistro
Fredricksburg, VA
 
HR means "High Resistance" to Stretching--just kidding


What method of cleaning do your employees use to clean the tables. I know thats probally a slim chance but HR cloth does seem to be harder to stretch than regular 860 and thats my own opinion.

I vote on the install job on the cloth being the reason.
 
rrussoniello said:
Hi there,

Just recovered the 12 tables in my room with 860HR back in January and have had a big problem with tables needing to be restretched this past month. To a point where you could grab almost an inch of cloth on each table. The guy I use to recover has been doing my personal table and this room's tables for the last 12+ years and never had a problem with him, does great work. Is it possible we got a bad ream of cloth or has anyone else had this issue? If it was just one or two tables, I would blame the installer, but it was ever table and even after being restretched last week, he feels they need it again as they are loosening up even more.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!

Richard
Dragon's Lair Billiards & Bistro
Fredricksburg, VA
Click to expand...

Had a similar situation with a pool room in chicago. Turned out to be humidity.
For a fast test turn the a/c on overnight and check the tables when you open. If they tightened up it's humidity.
If not then it's probably the install. Without checking my notes I believe the stretch index for HR is between 2.75" and 3.25"
 
Dartman said:
Had a similar situation with a pool room in chicago. Turned out to be humidity.
For a fast test turn the a/c on overnight and check the tables when you open. If they tightened up it's humidity.
If not then it's probably the install. Without checking my notes I believe the stretch index for HR is between 2.75" and 3.25"
Click to expand...

Rick, that's too much stretch for HR Tournament Blue, I generally stretch mine 2 3/16" on the side and on the ends, some bolts even less. I use this cloth for about 75% of my jobs.

OP, I doubt its the cloth. This cloth stretchs a little different, less side to side and more end to end.
 
sdbilliards said:
Rick, that's too much stretch for HR Tournament Blue, I generally stretch mine 2 3/16" on the side and on the ends, some bolts even less. I use this cloth for about 75% of my jobs.

OP, I doubt its the cloth. This cloth stretchs a little different, less side to side and more end to end.
Click to expand...

By index I mean the most you can stretch a style of cloth (side to side). Some of that depends on who's doing the stretching. I mark the max I can get then back off 1/2" to get my set line.
 
humidity

I had problems with a customer's table years ago in a concrete building behind their house. I disassembled and restretched the first time they called me back. The second time I went to Lowe's and bought a $200 dehumidifier and set it up in the building, 2 days later the lady called and told me to come get my dehumidifier, it had solved the problem and she had bought her own. As it turned out I spent as much as I made on that job but I learned something and I use that same dehumidifier in my cue shop. With all of the rain lately I am not suprised. Also the instructions that Simonis used to distribute recomended restretching the cloth after a few months, I never do that in my pool room, just live with a little pucker here and there when the weather gets bad enough the HVAC system can't keep up with the humidity.
 
sdbilliards said:
Rick, that's too much stretch for HR Tournament Blue, I generally stretch mine 2 3/16" on the side and on the ends, some bolts even less. I use this cloth for about 75% of my jobs.

OP, I doubt its the cloth. This cloth stretchs a little different, less side to side and more end to end.
Click to expand...

sdbilliards has got it right. The HR cloth definitely needs to be pulled tighter lengthways. I find that it is easier to take the puckers out of the centre pockets because of this. I am also using it more and more because of this.
 
table

What method is being used to install the cloth? Staples or spray glue? Spray glue will not hold simonis'. "See simonis web site" get your installer the just released cloth installation videos from simonis... It takes a well trained mechanic that knows the tricks of the trade when it comes to installing simonis cloth..not all pool table cloths are created equal.....if you have high humidity in the room _ I'm not the only one who have said this before,>think of a wool sweater when it comes out of the wash machine 3x to big, then think of the sweater after it comes out of the dryer 3x to small'. Simonis has a high wool content, especially 860HR
 
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rrussoniello said:
Hi there,

Just recovered the 12 tables in my room with 860HR back in January and have had a big problem with tables needing to be restretched this past month. To a point where you could grab almost an inch of cloth on each table. The guy I use to recover has been doing my personal table and this room's tables for the last 12+ years and never had a problem with him, does great work. Is it possible we got a bad ream of cloth or has anyone else had this issue? If it was just one or two tables, I would blame the installer, but it was ever table and even after being restretched last week, he feels they need it again as they are loosening up even more.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!
Richard
Dragon's Lair Billiards & Bistro
Fredricksburg, VA
Click to expand...



January is usually when the inside air is at the point of lowest humidity. In the spring when the humidity increases, the cloth will relax and wrinkle.

I had that problem with tournament cloth and I found a trick to eliminate it.

When you are installing the cloth for the bed or the rails, lay it out and mist all of it with water. Let it set for 10 minutes and then install and stretch. Never had the problem again. If it drys out you might need to give it a little more. I used the spray bottle that my wife uses for ironing.

You don't want it wet but just a little damp.

This trick works especially well for around the pockets (the ends of the rails) for those hard to stretch areas that always wrinkle.


Kim
 
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whammo57 said:
January is usually when the inside air is at the point of lowest humidity. In the spring when the humidity increases, the cloth will relax and wrinkle.

I had that problem with tournament cloth and I found a trick to eliminate it.

When you are installing the cloth for the bed or the rails, lay it out and mist all of it with water. Let it set for 10 minutes and then install and stretch. Never had the problem again. If it drys out you might need to give it a little more. I used the spray bottle that my wife uses for ironing.

You don't want it wet but just a little damp.

This trick works especially well for around the pockets (the ends of the rails) for those hard to stretch areas that always wrinkle.


Kim
Click to expand...

Kim, you dont find that there is any discoloring or staining on the bedcloth compared to the rails that weren't sprayed?
 
dontlitethat said:
What method is being used to install the cloth? Staples or spray glue? Spray glue will not hold simonis'. "See simonis web site" get your installer the just released cloth installation videos from simonis... It takes a well trained mechanic that knows the tricks of the trade when it comes to installing simonis cloth..not all pool table cloths are created equal.....if you have high humidity in the room _ I'm not the only one who have said this before,>think of a wool sweater when it comes out of the wash machine 3x to big, then think of the sweater after it comes out of the dryer 3x to small'. Simonis has a high wool content, especially 860HR
Click to expand...

Real King Cobra used spray glue on my table. Plays Great and have no problems with the cloth. I think that he uses Glue on all his tables. Hope he replies.
 
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Casey said:
Real King Cobra used spray glue on my table. Plays Great and have no problems with the cloth. I think that he uses Glue on all his tables. Hope he replies.
Click to expand...

Hey buddy, that was 3M 10 with a roller to install your bed cloth, spray glue would never hold up to how tight I installed your cloth:D

Glen
 
rrussoniello said:
Hi there,

Just recovered the 12 tables in my room with 860HR back in January and have had a big problem with tables needing to be restretched this past month. To a point where you could grab almost an inch of cloth on each table. The guy I use to recover has been doing my personal table and this room's tables for the last 12+ years and never had a problem with him, does great work. Is it possible we got a bad ream of cloth or has anyone else had this issue? If it was just one or two tables, I would blame the installer, but it was ever table and even after being restretched last week, he feels they need it again as they are loosening up even more.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!

Richard
Dragon's Lair Billiards & Bistro
Fredricksburg, VA
Click to expand...

Correctly installed cloth won't come loose because of humidity...it will however loosen up if cleaned with to damp of a cloth or spraying to much cloth cleaner on it;)
 
rrussoniello said:
Hi there,

Just recovered the 12 tables in my room with 860HR back in January and have had a big problem with tables needing to be restretched this past month. To a point where you could grab almost an inch of cloth on each table. The guy I use to recover has been doing my personal table and this room's tables for the last 12+ years and never had a problem with him, does great work. Is it possible we got a bad ream of cloth or has anyone else had this issue? If it was just one or two tables, I would blame the installer, but it was ever table and even after being restretched last week, he feels they need it again as they are loosening up even more.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!




Richard
Dragon's Lair Billiards & Bistro
Fredricksburg, VA
Click to expand...


I am not a table mechanic but I do my own table work.

A year ago, In January I recovered my table with simonis 860....looked good (probably not as good as a pro would do). I stretched it tight. In June, the cloth had wrinkles and was loose.

In January my humidity was about 20 percent. In June it is about 55 percent.

So I took the table apart and re stretched the cloth. I layed the cloth on the table and misted the whole thing with water. Not wet but damp. I used the bottle my wife uses for ironing.

Before I removed the cloth, I marked it at the edge of the slate with a marker so I had a reference point.

I easily stretched the cloth about 2 inches a side and re cut the pockets.

I never had another problem.... I will do this on new cloth next time.

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
I am not a table mechanic but I do my own table work.

A year ago, In January I recovered my table with simonis 860....looked good (probably not as good as a pro would do). I stretched it tight. In June, the cloth had wrinkles and was loose.

In January my humidity was about 20 percent. In June it is about 55 percent.

So I took the table apart and re stretched the cloth. I layed the cloth on the table and misted the whole thing with water. Not wet but damp. I used the bottle my wife uses for ironing.

Before I removed the cloth, I marked it at the edge of the slate with a marker so I had a reference point.

I easily stretched the cloth about 2 inches a side and re cut the pockets.

I never had another problem.... I will do this on new cloth next time.

Kim
Click to expand...

Wet cloth will stretch more than dry cloth will...only problem is it won't have any elasticity left in the cloth to try and stretch back...so when the cloth wrinkles up infront of your bridge hand...don't say I didn't warn you this would happen;)
 
Call Simonis for the video

Simonis has instructional videos for properly installing the bed and rail cloth. Glen and I produced these videos for Simonis and used 860 HR. in the filming. Give them a call and order the bed cloth video you'll see how to index, mark and stretch the cloth.

Jay
 
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