Simonis stretch

M

Martman100

Martman
I am curious as to who uses the suggested Simonis stretch pattern for 860. As a DIY I see some good and some bad with the stretch pattern Simonis presents. Who actually uses this?

Glen, SDBilliards, etc.. very curious. I honestly don't think that many actually use their pattern as released.

Glen I sent you a pm on your price for your cloth installation methods. So I am not here to make money off of the experienced ones. I installed carpet for several years while in college and I can say the suggested stretch pattern of carpet mfgs was a joke if you wanted to do a quality job.

I know an experienced tech is the way to go but really can't justify the cost on this table and the wife really won't approve.

Thanks for any pointers. If you want to PM me that is fine I will not share what you tell me.
 
Martman100 said:
I am curious as to who uses the suggested Simonis stretch pattern for 860. As a DIY I see some good and some bad with the stretch pattern Simonis presents. Who actually uses this?

Glen, SDBilliards, etc.. very curious. I honestly don't think that many actually use their pattern as released.

Glen I sent you a pm on your price for your cloth installation methods. So I am not here to make money off of the experienced ones. I installed carpet for several years while in college and I can say the suggested stretch pattern of carpet mfgs was a joke if you wanted to do a quality job.

I know an experienced tech is the way to go but really can't justify the cost on this table and the wife really won't approve.

Thanks for any pointers. If you want to PM me that is fine I will not share what you tell me.
Click to expand...

I'll be in your area later next week:D
 
Simonis and Championship publish the exact same "instructions" which are probably
more confusing then helpful. I doubt an experienced mechanic would follow
those line drawings.

Lately I send cloth to the dry cleaners for an extra heavy starch press.
No stretch needed - just glue the cloth down around the slate perimeter.
Perfect every time and faster then tack strips. :D
 
Why would a place like Felt Pros sell Simonis and not have good instructions to put it on if the instructions Simonis give are confusing. So the instructions are confusing and you have them on your website? Doesn't seem you care about helping out your customers. The way Donny marked his cloth with that glue method is something you should have. Maybe he can write some up so your website is credible.

thanks Mike
 
Instructions

TheMongoose said:
Why would a place like Felt Pros sell Simonis and not have good instructions to put it on if the instructions Simonis give are confusing. So the instructions are confusing and you have them on your website? Doesn't seem you care about helping out your customers. The way Donny marked his cloth with that glue method is something you should have. Maybe he can write some up so your website is credible.

thanks Mike
Click to expand...
The reason Donnie or Glen has not done this, is because Glen has to train you, first. Any normal person, could not do this.Also Glen is going to come out with a dvd. Thanks, Ron
 
I have been waiting on the DVD for the last year and my cushions could not wait any longer. And sorry I cannot afford to pay 3-4 hundred dollars in labor to get the cushions and cloth replaced.

I will get it done and it will be at a quality better than most normal home tables but no where near the quality of the professional results seen on here.

Thanks for the info though. I honestly did not think there was anyway anyone was using the suggested pattern from Simonis.
 
Martman100 said:
I have been waiting on the DVD for the last year and my cushions could not wait any longer. And sorry I cannot afford to pay 3-4 hundred dollars in labor to get the cushions and cloth replaced.

I will get it done and it will be at a quality better than most normal home tables but no where near the quality of the professional results seen on here.

Thanks for the info though. I honestly did not think there was anyway anyone was using the suggested pattern from Simonis.
Click to expand...
I was not aware that Glen told anybody about this method, for a year. I do not think, it has been going on, that long. Thanks, Ron
 
TheMongoose said:
Why would a place like Felt Pros sell Simonis and not have good instructions to put it on if the instructions Simonis give are confusing. So the instructions are confusing and you have them on your website? Doesn't seem you care about helping out your customers. The way Donny marked his cloth with that glue method is something you should have. Maybe he can write some up so your website is credible.

thanks Mike
Click to expand...
LOL, another FNG with all the answers.
I'll answer your question with a question and see if you can figure it out on your own -
Why does Simonis make this statement - "Simonis recommends installation by professionally trained table mechanics only. "

Here's another - Does any set of cushions come with instructions?
If you figure it out let us know. I'm sure the mechanics here that do this work for a living know the answer.

And for the record Jack, don't even try to go down the "credibility" road until you have some.
 
TheMongoose said:
Why would a place like Felt Pros sell Simonis and not have good instructions to put it on if the instructions Simonis give are confusing. So the instructions are confusing and you have them on your website? Doesn't seem you care about helping out your customers. The way Donny marked his cloth with that glue method is something you should have. Maybe he can write some up so your website is credible.

thanks Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

The Simonis installation instructions are part of Simonis's website and are probably intended as a basic guideline for everybody from the homeowner to the DIYer to the neophyte installer. Expecting any of these folks to be able to install a bed cloth the way Donny does would be unrealistic. Remember, Donny is a top level, full time professional mechanic.

I've heard Glen RKC is working with Simonis to develop improved installation methodology (most of them were developed by RKC anyway). Hopefully those changes will be in the pipeline soon.

As far as Dartman "not seeming to care about his customers" you sir are way out of line:angry: Felt Pro's has an impeccable reputation and to hold them responsible for a Simonis publication is absurd.

I suggest you look at the reputation (green bar above avatar) before questioning any members integrity.

Jay
 
LCCS said:
I was not aware that Glen told anybody about this method, for a year. I do not think, it has been going on, that long. Thanks, Ron
Click to expand...
I was not referring to waiting on a specific method but the DVD for the last year. I have know idea what is even on the DVD. But I would like to see it just to satisfy my curiosities with the amazing work that you all do on these tables.

Just for the record I am not knocking anyone on here for not sharing there secrets. I understand the desire and need to protect them.

This site and the people on it have been great and I thank you all. Hopefully, the things I learned from my recovering last year will make this one even better.
 
Many online billiards retailers post a link to either the Simonis or Championship install instructions (they're the same).
Call it a service to the customer who might not know how to locate this info on their own.
Whether said instructions are good or bad is best saved for another thread.
This is, btw, the reason we have an "internet" - links to information.


As to the link from our site, this is what we say -
Disclaimer
This installation guide is provided courtesy of Iwan Simonis, Inc.
Note that the installation instructions and diagrams are provided for reference only.
Since untrained installers tend to have some difficulty properly installing pool table
cloth we recommend installation by a professional pool table mechanic.
The installation guide can be used for any brand or style of pool table cloth.
 
Last edited:
Martman100 said:
I was not referring to waiting on a specific method but the DVD for the last year. I have know idea what is even on the DVD. But I would like to see it just to satisfy my curiosities with the amazing work that you all do on these tables.

Just for the record I am not knocking anyone on here for not sharing there secrets. I understand the desire and need to protect them.

This site and the people on it have been great and I thank you all. Hopefully, the things I learned from my recovering last year will make this one even better.
Click to expand...
If you piece together every tidbit that RKC has posted you're probably 80% there.
Once his DVDs get done you get it all in one place. The world waits, LOL :D

* I hope the DVD has an outtake that shows Glen levitating slate.
 
Dartman said:
Many online billiards retailers post a link to either the Simonis or Championship install instructions (they're the same).
Call it a service to the customer who might not know how to locate this info on their own.
Whether said instructions are good or bad is best saved for another thread.
This is, btw, the reason we have an "internet" - links to information.


As to the link from our site, this is what we say -
Disclaimer
This installation guide is provided courtesy of Iwan Simonis, Inc.
Note that the installation instructions and diagrams are provided for reference only.
Since untrained installers tend to have some difficulty properly installing pool table
cloth we recommend installation by a professional pool table mechanic.
The installation guide can be used for any brand or style of pool table cloth.
Click to expand...
And Rick has always answered my questions and given me great service anytime I have dealt with him. Anyone looking to purchase cloth would have come across these instructions on just about every site that sells cloth. Anyone with common sense would know that when they apply it to all cloths that it is a generic set of suggestive instructions.

I didn't follow them and never will. I would have better luck putting together a 1000 piece puzzle....with my eyes closed. I can only imagine the amount grain deflection you would get with those.
 
Dartman said:
If you piece together every tidbit that RKC has posted you're probably 80% there.
Once his DVDs get done you get it all in one place. The world waits, LOL :D

* I hope the DVD has an outtake that shows Glen levitating slate.
Click to expand...
Yeah I found some very key posts. The funny thing is the items I discovered on one of those post was in line with what I thought would be a good way to start an install. Very similar to stretching large pieces of carpet. I still have some voids that I need to fill before I am comfortable knowing I will end up with a good stretch but I will figure them out.
 
Alright you guys, there is a reason why it's taking so long to get my dvd's on the market...it's called my last 25 years investment in this business. My plans have always been to pull mechanics together on the same sheet of music, by unifying how tables are worked on, creating a net work of resources to be able to go to if needed, and to make it easy to purchase the glue needed to get this job done.

I'm incorporating Realkingcobra in Nevada in March, with Fatboy. Reason for this...is because we're purchasing the rights to my glue, so we can create a distribution network that makes it easy for everyone to find the glue to buy. We're changing the glue to make it more matching to the cloth we use, and privatizing the labeling to make it very identifiable..."RKC Billiards Contact Adhesive. It's my hopes that through the support of as many mechanics as possible, we'll all be able to help pull our industry together for the purpose of bringing "credibility" through certification to it.

I honestly believe that "United we stand, divided we fall". This billiards industry has only been around for 400 years or so....and everyone's organized in it....except the mechanics!!!!

I can not change this industry by myself, I need help..a LOT of help...and that's where everyone who cares comes in to place. That is why I feel the need to privatize the glue we use...because it can be the one common denominator between all of use that helps make us aware of each other, and through this "common denominator" we can ALL work on setting up a "Billiards mechanic...Accredited School" in which if you can at the very least...pass the skill level test bypassing the 6 months of schooling...become a "Certified Billiards Mechanic"...as only "WE"...have the athority to call a mechinic "Certified"...because "WE" ARE the standard of this industry...not the cloth manufactures...not the table manufactures...and NOT any other organization period!

So, there's a lot more to this than meets the eye, so just hold onto your horses....I'm almost done:D

Glen, the Realkingcobra!
 
TheMongoose said:
Why would a place like Felt Pros sell Simonis and not have good instructions to put it on if the instructions Simonis give are confusing. So the instructions are confusing and you have them on your website? Doesn't seem you care about helping out your customers. The way Donny marked his cloth with that glue method is something you should have. Maybe he can write some up so your website is credible.

thanks Mike
Click to expand...
Read my post, maybe you'll understand a little better as to why no one has my instructions on installing bed cloths yet. I took a personal interest in Donny because I liked his willingness to work, and open mind to learn, so I spent enough time with Donny to show him how to change what he was already doing, in a better way...the rest was up to him. So he took what I taught him and ran with it, and as you can see by the pictures he posts...he's learned quite well:D and is now enjoying a reputation that puts him in with some of the other mechanics in the top of this industry. But, what he learned from me, is not for him to redistribute to anyone else...that is my right, and my right alone, which is why Simonis does not have these instructions as of yet, but yes...I am working with Simonis, and shortly they will have the instructions for distribution worldwide.

Rick does a great job doing what he does, selling cloth. But not one cloth manufacture or distributor, or table manufacturer in my opinion, is knoweagable enough as far as I'm concerned....to tell me how to install the cloth they produce, on the tables it gets installed on...unless they are out here doing the same thing I'm doing...on EVERY kind of table known to mankind!!!

Mechanic's and DYI's are ALWAYS the last set of hands on a pool table...installing the cloth on what ever kind of table it is, and it's always OUR work that gets the most heat when a table don't play right, look right, roll right...or what ever, we are always taking the blame for the cloth and the tables...and that's going to STOP soon enough:wink:

Glen
 
TheMongoose said:
Why would a place like Felt Pros sell Simonis and not have good instructions to put it on if the instructions Simonis give are confusing. So the instructions are confusing and you have them on your website? Doesn't seem you care about helping out your customers. The way Donny marked his cloth with that glue method is something you should have. Maybe he can write some up so your website is credible.

thanks Mike
Click to expand...
I turned your reps from red to green, to give you a fresh start, but do please read more before you post, you'll learn a lot more that way:wink:

Glen, the Realkingcobra!
 
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