SJM at the 2023 International Open

[td873]

Wow, I just got home from Virginia and it's disappointing to see how this thread, meant to celebrate a great week in Virginia and to intrigue those that might attend a major pool event one day, has proceeded.

Needless to say, Fran is right. Niels' conduct toward her on the occasion of which she takes note was regrettable and inexcusable but are we to judge the people in our lives by their worst moments or are we to consider their entire body of work? For me, it's usually the latter, and the BCA Hall of Fame would have almost no members if we judged potential inductees by their most objectionable moments of indiscretion.

In truth, Niels would probably be considered by his fellow players, the fans and the billiards media to be one of the role models for how to conduct yourself in the arena of play. I've been around Niels for about 25 years, and based on my own observations, he is very respectful of opponents, referees, fans and event producers and genuinely idolizes the pro players that paved the way for him.

Is this thread a lost cause? Do I need to begin a new thread in which we can talk about the wonderful event with which Pat Fleming graced us? Must this thread drown in a tangent having only marginal relevance? While I thought it fitting to include a recap of the BCA HOF dinner in my post, this was not a thread about Niels. Can we return to the subject at hand?

Thanks, again, Stu. I hope this thread gets back on track as your reviews are always enjoyable to read. [Personally, I did not see a need for the negative comment, especially the way it was recounted. There is a time and place for things, and your thread was not a good dumping ground. And, given Niels' otherwise long history of being a positive role model, I think the commenter may have lost more ground in the eyes of this group than the attempt to tarnish Niels accomplished. I do agree with you that people should not be judged based on objectionable moments, but, nevertheless, I have one more ignored member on my list for the time being.]

Back to the topic at hand: it was great to see you and Nick dressed up on the stream! You sure clean up nice! SVB's jump shots in the big foot were spectacular!

-td

 

[jokrswylde]

Fran and Stu both have been on the inside of pro pool and seen and done things AND met people that most of us bangers will never get to do.

They are both very generous with their insights and experiences here on the forum. Fact is, there not too many people as devoted who are willing to share on here. For that, I am grateful and I hope most of their content will be forever preserved on the 'net.

This thread wasnt the place to share the personal anecdote about Neil's, as it takes away from yet another superb synopsis from SJM for those of us who couldn't be there.

For those who have seen the last few tourneys, is there anything that FSR is doing differently that can account for his lack of wins? Coming off the year he had last year, it seemed like he was unbeatable. Maybe it's that he can't "sneak up" on anyone anymore?

 

[sjm]

A good read and nice to read about Niels' Hall of Fame entry. As a Dutchman it gives me glowy nationalist feelings

I agree with his assessment that he is not the intuitive kind of player, instead he is the extremely hardworking, disciplined sportman. But in that sense he has an exceptional talent.
And he is known for his mental toughness. To be honest: I don't think he is mentally much stronger than any of the other elite players. He too has his unforced errors, he too has crash and burns. But he has a way of explaining his elite mental game to the average player, so that's great.

It's been great watching him. Sometimes in person, sometimes deep in the night on some illegal stream. I wont bet on it, but I hope he manages to make another major final and snatches the win.

Here's an oldie:

Well said. You and other Dutch pool enthusiasts should feel proud of the first Dutch Hall of Famer.

I'm old and fortunate enough to have seen up close the rise of European Pool on the men's side here in America. I recall when German players Ortmann and Souquet first graced the American pool scene with their presence and how, not too long after, Dutch players Feijen and Lely began to be seen in American events. All of them, along with several others (such as Immonen and Chamat) blazed a trail of excellence that came into fullest bloom and European male pros have been achieving great things ever since.

It's a wonderful moment for Dutch pool but it is as wonderful for the world of pool.

 

[sjm]

Stu,

As usual, awesome recap summary! I agree that Yapp’s performances against Gorst and Alcaide were “breathtaking.” He is definitely now a force to be reckoned with.

It was a pleasure meeting and spending time with you. I also thought we “proved compatible.” Thanks again for helping to facilitate my VIP seating luxury. It really made my first Int’l Open a special experience, and I truly appreciate that.

Best regards!

You are welcome, Dave. The pleasure was mine.

 

[Island Drive]

Wow, I just got home from Virginia and it's disappointing to see how this thread, meant to celebrate a great week in Virginia and to intrigue those that might attend a major pool event one day, has proceeded.

Needless to say, Fran is right. Niels' conduct toward her on the occasion of which she takes note was regrettable and inexcusable but are we to judge the people in our lives by their worst moments or are we to consider their entire body of work? For me, it's usually the latter, and the BCA Hall of Fame would have almost no members if we judged potential inductees by their most objectionable moments of indiscretion.

In truth, Niels would probably be considered by his fellow players, the fans and the billiards media to be one of the role models for how to conduct yourself in the arena of play. I've been around Niels for about 25 years, and based on my own observations, he is very respectful of opponents, referees, fans and event producers and genuinely idolizes the pro players that paved the way for him.

Is this thread a lost cause? Do I need to begin a new thread in which we can talk about the wonderful event with which Pat Fleming graced us? Must this thread drown in a tangent having only marginal relevance? While I thought it fitting to include a recap of the BCA HOF dinner in my post, this was not a thread about Niels. Can we return to the subject at hand?

No Stu, just stop reading the NY times.

 

[sjm]

How would you compare this to Ko's whitewash of Yapp?
That was a fun one.
Both were good, sounds like this might is the better.

I think Ko Ping Chung's whitewash of Yapp in the US Open semifinals was the single greatest performance of 2023, and it rates among the finest single-match performances that I've ever seen. The fact that it came on four-inch pockets makes it all the more remarkable.

At least for this fan, Yapp's performance against Gorst at the International was the second-best effort of the year. Also in the conversation is Kaci's 11-0 whitewash of Ko Pin Yi in the UK Open semifinals in June, which he followed up with a dominating 11-4 win over Filler in the final.

Dr Dave and I chatted about how watching the best doesn't guarantee that you'll see THEIR best but that sometimes you get lucky and you are right there at that special moment when it happens.

We sure have seen some great pool this year!

 

[sjm]

Stu - Although my wife is not a pool fan, she's seen me watch so many streams that she can pick you out easier than most of the players!

Thanks for the update! The Gerson shot was really exciting as we some of the spectacular jump shots!

-td

Agreed. Gerson's was a very tough carom shot from long-distance and if he misses, Pagulayan likely brings it to double hill, so the size of the moment was huge. He gave the loudest yell of the week when that nine went in and we could all feel his joy.

 

[sjm]

Back to the topic at hand: it was great to see you and Nick dressed up on the stream! You sure clean up nice! SVB's jump shots in the big foot were spectacular!

-td

Thanks for that. We'd both just come from the BCA hall of fame dinner so we were still wearing our suits. Nick Varner and I have sweated many matches together over the years and I'm proud to call him a good friend. At that moment, I had Jerry Briesath on my right, too, so I was surrounded by pool royalty.

 

[sjm]

No Stu, just stop reading the NY times.

LOL. Hope you're well, Bill.

 

[sjm]

I failed to mention that the International 9-ball event had alternate break. To some extent, I'm still sizing up whether it was to my liking or not. In one sense, it was fair and everyone got their chances, but what I didn't like is that the bleeding stopped more quickly after a bad mistake. With winner breaks, that one terrible shot might cost you three or four racks and I think I like it that way.

How do others feel about alternate break? I'm thinking I don't like it as much as winner breaks.

 

[sjm]

For those who have seen the last few tourneys, is there anything that FSR is doing differently that can account for his lack of wins? Coming off the year he had last year, it seemed like he was unbeatable. Maybe it's that he can't "sneak up" on anyone anymore?

FSR is still playing well and I think he'll be a major contributor on Team Europe in the upcoming Mosconi Cup. Don't sleep on him.

 

[nicksaint26]

I failed to mention that the International 9-ball event had alternate break. To some extent, I'm still sizing up whether it was to my liking or not. In one sense, it was fair and everyone got their chances, but what I didn't like is that the bleeding stopped more quickly after a bad mistake. With winner breaks, that one terrible shot might cost you three or four racks and I think I like it that way.

How do others feel about alternate break? I'm thinking I don't like it as much as winner breaks.

I am leaning more and more towards winner breaks myself for exactly the reasons you stated Stu. With winner breaks you are technically never out of a match. Once Yapp got up 10-5 or whatever it was on Alcaide you knew it was over and I didn’t like that.

 

[maha]

in football the team that scores gives away the ball. there is good reason for that.
same in pool after winning the game you shouldnt keep the break.

sure it may give someone else a chance to get from behind. but that same thing makes it easier for someone to get too far ahead.
the break is strong and should be neutral.

actually matches would be closer and more exciting if you had loser breaks. although i dont propose that as its too radical.

 

[Monti]

FSR is still playing well and I think he'll be a major contributor on Team Europe in the upcoming Mosconi Cup. Don't sleep on him.

I think it’s just like with Albin. It’s all a bit cyclical, players get on a streak and then they have to go through a period where they play at a lower standard or don’t win as often. Nobody is going to win all the time. It’s like people saying SVB is finished! There are, in my opinion 5 or 6 players who are the elite and one of those is always wining or top 4 but then you wil always get someone who just gets it together on the day and wins it.

 

[sjm]

I think it’s just like with Albin. It’s all a bit cyclical, players get on a streak and then they have to go through a period where they play at a lower standard or don’t win as often. Nobody is going to win all the time. It’s like people saying SVB is finished! There are, in my opinion 5 or 6 players who are the elite and one of those is always wining or top 4 but then you wil always get someone who just gets it together on the day and wins it.

Well said, Monti. There are, indeed, ebbs and flows in performance and results obtained, but in the end, the elite are the elite and it's only a matter of time until they prove it once again.

 

[PoolBum]

I failed to mention that the International 9-ball event had alternate break. To some extent, I'm still sizing up whether it was to my liking or not. In one sense, it was fair and everyone got their chances, but what I didn't like is that the bleeding stopped more quickly after a bad mistake. With winner breaks, that one terrible shot might cost you three or four racks and I think I like it that way.

How do others feel about alternate break? I'm thinking I don't like it as much as winner breaks.

I prefer winner breaks to alternate breaks. I can't imagine not getting to see some of those packages that Earl used to put together, for example. His top gear was the best I've ever seen, and I think it would be unfair to legislate out that kind of dominant ability.

 

[skogstokig]

How do others feel about alternate break? I'm thinking I don't like it as much as winner breaks.

depends on the table conditions and race length. these tables looked softer than what we've seen in the other events, so races would need to be longer with winner break imo

 

[decent dennis]

I am leaning more and more towards winner breaks myself for exactly the reasons you stated Stu. With winner breaks you are technically never out of a match. Once Yapp got up 10-5 or whatever it was on Alcaide you knew it was over and I didn’t like that.

I also like winner break (unless i'm playing) but for a different reason. I like the fact that there is,as far as i know no other sport where you can be a participant but may not participate! If the first breaker runs out, God bless him.
Or do it like Derby where if one player runs the set, the other gets one chance to match it.

 

[Atorontopoolplayer]

FSR is still playing well and I think he'll be a major contributor on Team Europe in the upcoming Mosconi Cup. Don't sleep on him.

He has had some health issues this year also

 

[Island Drive]

I failed to mention that the International 9-ball event had alternate break. To some extent, I'm still sizing up whether it was to my liking or not. In one sense, it was fair and everyone got their chances, but what I didn't like is that the bleeding stopped more quickly after a bad mistake. With winner breaks, that one terrible shot might cost you three or four racks and I think I like it that way.

How do others feel about alternate break? I'm thinking I don't like it as much as winner breaks.

In the shorter ones yeah, but if they make em all races to 11, winner break.
The law of large numbers when you implement races to 11.... most always rears it's head offering unforeseen moments to ''turn it around'' for the one getting pounded.