SJM at the 2025 Derby City Classic

SJM saw you a few times in your normal seat table side but only saw you once in the wild. You were on the people mover heading to the hotel side and I was at a vendor heading to the casino side. Well at least we got a few minutes to speak at Turning stone this year.
 
If anyone wants to redo the math, which stu was close on his numbers, here are the player numbers.

Banks- 476
One Pocket- 400
9 Ball- 500

One thing that people may not take into consideration is event expense. How much staff is working the event from tournament directors to people who watch the door. And then there is accu-stats. I am sure that bill isn't small as there are multiple people involved with that.
 
sjm said:
No, I don't think it is that, Jay, because it's common knowledge that DCC payouts haven't kept up with the times. A year ago, the payout details were available through AZB within a few days of the completion of the Derby.

Digital Pool shows the following:

Bank Pool: $96,250 prize money of which $25,000 is added. There were about 480 players (I do not know the exact number). Each paid $160 to enter and let's say half of them bought back for $100, which is typical. That means that the 480 players put up $100,800 (480x160+240x 100) in total.

One pocket: $85,000 prize money of which $25,000 is added. There were about 450 players (I do not know the exact number). Each paid $160 to enter and let's say half of them bought back for $100, which is typical. That means that the 450 players put up $94,500 (450x160+225x 100) in total.

9ball: $100,000 prize money of which $25,000 is added. There were 500 players. Each paid $160 to enter and let's say half of them bought back for $100, which is typical. That means that the 500 players put up $105,000 (500x160+250x 100) in total.

10ball: $32,000 prize money of which the 16 players put up $1,000 each for $16,000. Sounds like $16,000 added.

Master of Table: $25,000 prizes paid

All events combined (this is just a best guess):

Total prizes paid = 96,250+85,000+100,000+32,000+25,000 =338,250
Total entry fees = 100,800+94,500+105,000+16,000 = 316,300

As noted, these are estimates and they may be wrong, but the prize money paid does not look outrageous. Still, I would agree that the payouts have not kept up with the times.
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Stu, your estimate of the number of buy-backs at 50% is low. The percentages I have calculated over the last dozen years have ranged from about 60% to about 80% for the 3 events, with two-thirds being a reasonable overall figure for all 3 events combined over those 12 DCCs. Banks is usually the highest, and was in the mid to upper 70s the past two years. The other two disciplines were right at about 70% this year.

In your estimate, the buy-backs totaled 715, whereas the actual number was more like 1,000.

But you overcounted for the number of One-Pocket entrants, which was about 400 (the DCC cap this year) rather than 450.

The net of those two corrections adds about $20,000 to what the players paid in.
 
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OK, the cat's out of the bag. AZB has updated its money list for 2025.

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 Banks - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 One Pocket - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 9-Ball - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 Master of the Table - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

Enjoy.
 
boradriver said:
SJM saw you a few times in your normal seat table side but only saw you once in the wild. You were on the people mover heading to the hotel side and I was at a vendor heading to the casino side. Well at least we got a few minutes to speak at Turning stone this year.
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Sorry we didn't get a chance to catch up. Hope you had a good experience at the Derby.
 
sjm said:
OK, the cat's out of the bag. AZB has updated its money list for 2025.

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 Banks - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 One Pocket - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 9-Ball - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

www.azbilliards.com

Derby City Classic 2025 Master of the Table - Horseshoe Southern Indiana - January 17 - 27th, 2025 - Home - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

Enjoy.
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Thanks Stu
 
InsertCleverNameHere said:
$98,100 worth
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And the added money for these three events was a total of $75,000! Do the math, a great deal for the promoters. Actually the overage ($23,000) is almost enough to pay for the Master of the Table payouts as well. So in truth there is very little added money there. Such a deal!

That said, when looking at the list of money winners in the three dsivisons, DCC continues to attract almost all the best players stateside and many foreign champions as well. So many good players winning small amounts in the low hundreds and only a handfull winning thousands in any division. Only the very best players are making any real money here, so good for them. I see the names of many long time friends of mine from the pool world. For that reason I wish I had been there for the sake of reunion.
 
jasonlaus said:
Hate to admit it, but Sunday finals was great, wish there were a few buybacks so we could have watched a bit longer.
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They already had a plan in place -- no buy backs on Sunday. The plan was to go a little longer race to determine the winner.

(well I guess that means you would have watched a bit longer lol)
 
Bob Jewett said:
The rumor I heard is that the no buy backs was just for the case of both players having a buy back. Then the single race would be extended. That saves potentially two rounds.
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That's my understanding, too, Bob.
 
jay helfert said:
And the added money for these three events was a total of $75,000! Do the math, a great deal for the promoters. Actually the overage ($23,000) is almost enough to pay for the Master of the Table payouts as well. So in truth there is very little added money there. Such a deal!

That said, when looking at the list of money winners in the three dsivisons, DCC continues to attract almost all the best players stateside and many foreign champions as well. So many good players winning small amounts in the low hundreds and only a handfull winning thousands in any division. Only the very best players are making any real money here, so good for them. I see the names of many long time friends of mine from the pool world. For that reason I wish I had been there for the sake of reunion.
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We missed you Jay. Was a fun time.
 
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