Sky weighs in on WPA...

[VVP]

Outside contractors competing for one contract don't have countless other conflicts of interests to juggle each time they bid on a project. They are accountable to themselves alone. Pool players must weigh allegiances to sponsors, event producers, national federations, Matchroom and WPA, with every participation decision. Unlike the big business contractor, the pool player's income is entirely dependent on the actions and support of these entities. For some players, sponsorship money exceeds prize money earned. For some, federation money exceeds prize money earned. Each player has a different formula for income earned, and each must play his hand as he sees fit. Some of them have sponsors allied with Matchroom, others have sponsors that are allied with WPA. In these painfully turbulent times in our sport, the players are hostages to the relationships on which their incomes depend.

That's a 0% chance. It's also not accurate to call the World 8-ball field soft, for there were many monster players in the field. Yes, it was softer than it would have been in the absence of the boycott, but Filler tends to be the betting favorite with the bookmakers in every event he enters and to suggest that he had a "now I can win" revelation is, in my view, a bit ridiculous,

Boy you have patience! Meanwhile, I am cooking my neighbor's cats and dogs for those who believe Filler would have made a pre-kindergarten blunder to put out a statement to boycott his own sponsor's event without being placed under some kind of pressure or provided false information.

Just amazing, but at some point you need to stop wasting your time behind these people. Reasonable people totally get where you are coming from, mostly the fact that you are one of the biggest supporter of Matchroom.

 

[VVP]

Just saw a post that the bracket is out for the Hanoi Open and major players like Filler and Albin are not listed. I am not signing up to see the bracket, but if true it's a tragedy for the sport. Between the WPA threat and bad blood from the failed boycott it's a bad day for the sport.

 

[MattPoland]

This reinforces some perspective for me. I don’t know if this is just WNT pros that didn’t sign up or people that did sign up and backed out. I’m not interested in how that reflects on individual players.

It just is a reminder that playing under the WPA structure is a benefit to players in certain countries. If you were to compose a list of countries with real fiscal benefits to being in that structure, these five would easily be up at the top. The USA would be at the very bottom. So it’s a reminder when value is on the table, those federations have very real leverage over their players.

 

[garczar]

Just my $.02 here but i think as pro pool gets bigger these national federations will be geared much more to just amateur/regional stuff. Hopefully before long touring pros won't need to answer and bow down to these stuffed shirt a-holes.

 

[VVP]

This reinforces some perspective for me. I don’t know if this is just WNT pros that didn’t sign up or people that did sign up and backed out. I’m not interested in how that reflects on individual players.

It just is a reminder that playing under the WPA structure is a benefit to players in certain countries. If you were to compose a list of countries with real fiscal benefits to being in that structure, these five would easily be up at the top. The USA would be at the very bottom. So it’s a reminder when value is on the table, those federations have very real leverage over their players.

View attachment 781910

Is that image a Matchroom document or someone created it?

 

[sjm]

This reinforces some perspective for me. I don’t know if this is just WNT pros that didn’t sign up or people that did sign up and backed out. I’m not interested in how that reflects on individual players.

It just is a reminder that playing under the WPA structure is a benefit to players in certain countries. If you were to compose a list of countries with real fiscal benefits to being in that structure, these five would easily be up at the top. The USA would be at the very bottom. So it’s a reminder when value is on the table, those federations have very real leverage over their players.

View attachment 781910

Not easy to believe this. For example, Mario He and Thorsten Hohmann are both playing currently in the Peri Open but we are asked to believe they won't play in the Hanoi Open, and that each bore the cost of travel to Vietnam to play in the Peri Open alone. While anything is possible, that sure doesn't sound right.

Will await corroboration. This looks like fake news to me.

Late addition: ... not fake news, but horrifying news. Numerous players already in Vietnam are skipping the Hanoi Open. It is their every right to do so, and I respect the decision of every single player, but woe is all of us that the surrounding political climate of pool stands between the players and their chance to maximize their income in a sport to which they have dedicated their lives.

 

[skogstokig]

Just saw a post that the bracket is out for the Hanoi Open and major players like Filler and Albin are not listed. I am not signing up to see the bracket, but if true it's a tragedy for the sport. Between the WPA threat and bad blood from the failed boycott it's a bad day for the sport.

filler didn't play last year and we survived that tragedy

 

[iusedtoberich]

Can the players choose to represent a white flag and play both WPA and MR events? They'd give up any national and federation support, but I bet they would still find value in attending.

 

[Scrunge19]

Can the players choose to represent a white flag and play both WPA and MR events? They'd give up any national and federation support, but I bet they would still find value in attending.

This has nothing to do with representing their nation and everything to do with the financial support their individual federations provide. The players can’t/won’t give up the federation support because they rely on that money to live.

We would see all of the players playing all the Matchroom events if the threat of losing the federation money wasn’t being dangled over their heads by the WPA. That is the crux of this issue.

 

[iusedtoberich]

This has nothing to do with representing their nation and everything to do with the financial support their individual federations provide. The players can’t/won’t give up the federation support because they rely on that money to live.

We would see all of the players playing all the Matchroom events if the threat of losing the federation money wasn’t being dangled over their heads by the WPA. That is the crux of this issue.

IDK, I could have sworn a few of the top pros from "federation supported nations" came on an interview or two and said the financial support was very small. I may be completely misremembering.

 

[sjm]

This has nothing to do with representing their nation and everything to do with the financial support their individual federations provide. The players can’t/won’t give up the federation support because they rely on that money to live.

We would see all of the players playing all the Matchroom events if the threat of losing the federation money wasn’t being dangled over their heads by the WPA. That is the crux of this issue.

Nice post. Far too often, we overlook just how many loyalties must be juggled by the players when they make their participation decisions. They should be masters of their own destinies, but they are not. The current political environment in pool is very unhealthy and watching players skip events like this is disturbing.

We have reached a logical extreme in the case of the Hanoi Open, when numerous elite players WHO ARE ALREADY IN VIETNAM for the Peri Open are skipping the Hanoi Open that immediately follows.

This is disturbing and my heart goes out to all the players. The event producers deserve better than this, too.

 

[sjm]

IDK, I could have sworn a few of the top pros from "federation supported nations" came on an interview or two and said the financial support was very small. I may be completely misremembering.

It varies by country. Some countries, such as Poland, invest much more in pool than the others.

The federation money needs to be understood in the context of what players earn. Per the AZB money list, the 50th highest earner has made about $30,000 through three calendar quarters of 2024, equating to about $40,000 per annum. Even if one is conservative, half of that goes to participation costs, leaving just $20,000 net earnings. If such a player has access to $10,000 of federation money, it's still not money they can logically be putting at risk.

 

[jbart65]

Very disappointing. I could have sworn Filler, and perhaps, Ouschan, said they would show up at the Hanoi open and come what may. Apparently not.

There will be no unity among the players. And that may make it harder for them to excercise leverage with the WPA or related associations ...

 

[skogstokig]

IDK, I could have sworn a few of the top pros from "federation supported nations" came on an interview or two and said the financial support was very small. I may be completely misremembering.

sure but it's also relative to the cost of living in for example poland..

 

[iusedtoberich]

Off topic but ties in:

This is a good example of why marketing polls are useless. Until the moment the person “actually” has to make the decision in the store with their actual dollar, whatever they said beforehand is just chatter.

 

[sjm]

There will be no unity among the players. And that may make it harder for them to excercise leverage with the WPA or related associations ...

How can there be unity when each elite pro is playing a different hand? Some of them must prioritize allegiance to their sponsor, some must prioritize allegiance to their federation, some must prioritize allegiance to an event producer or to one of pool's governing bodies, and others must juggle these loyalties.

For example, without naming names, I'm mentally comparing two top pros. One is from a country that has no federation money, he almost never travels overseas to compete in WPA majors, and his primary sponsor is not tightly tied to one of pool's governing bodies. The other comes from a country with federation money, regularly travels overseas to compete in WPA majors, and has a primary sponsor tightly tied to one of pool's governing bodies.

To expect unity is to deny the realities of this moment in our game's history. Each player will play his hand as he sees fit. Unity can only come when pool's powerbrokers get on the same page and stop obstructing the players as they try to maximize their income.

 

[Poolmanis]

That is why all players should stick with boycott. To end this quick. WPA is basically blackmailing players.
Now players will make this long ass pain in there..

 

[iusedtoberich]

I do think there is also a chance MR will take their ball and go home. A person/team/company can only take so much. Their new event in pool's biggest emerging market has been neutered each of its two years.

 

[skogstokig]

I do think there is also a chance MR will take their ball and go home. A person/team/company can only take so much. Their new event in pool's biggest emerging market has been neutered each of its two years.

the reyes cup will probably make up for it

 

[jbart65]

How can there be unity when each elite pro is playing a different hand? Some of them must prioritize allegiance to their sponsor, some must prioritize allegiance to their federation, some must prioritize allegiance to an event producer or to one of pool's governing bodies, and others must juggle these loyalties.

For example, without naming names, I'm mentally comparing two top pros. One is from a country that has no federation money, he almost never travels overseas to compete in WPA majors, and his primary sponsor is not tightly tied to one of pool's governing bodies. The other comes from a country with federation money, regularly travels overseas to compete in WPA majors, and has a primary sponsor tightly tied to one of pool's governing bodies.

To expect unity is to deny the realities of this moment in our game's history. Each player will play his hand as he sees fit. Unity can only come when pool's powerbrokers get on the same page and stop obstructing the players as they try to maximize their income.

Just making an observation, sjm. Not casting judgment.

My thoughts are almost 100% aligned with what you have written in this thread.