Sky weighs in on WPA...
- Thread starter jokrswylde
- Start date
Nonsense.
I recall going to a Knicks basketball game. The night before, Lebron James, in an interview, said he was looking forward to playing in the game, and yet, though not injured, he did not even play. In basketball, playing when you feel like it, whether you said you would or not, is called load management. Did Lebron show a lack of integrity when he didn't play, even though a day earlier he said in an interview he would? Using your logic, he did.
Old school does not mean delusional. The professional sportsman that never misleads and never changes their mind about an intended course of action is the rule, not the exception.
This situation involves a player that is a pawn in pool's civil wars and has to make some choices that may look rash or hypocritical to some. There is far more to this than whether a player is as good as his word.
Finally, even though your post reads like a personal attack, I will not interpret it that way.
Not an apples to apples comparison. This is a situation where a group of people PUBLICLY stated they were taking a stand on a principle or belief. Surely you can see where Filler could have handled it better.
Also, it should be noted that you likely have more of a personal relationship with these players than most on here, so you are defending folks you count as personal acquaintances, if not friends...that does carry a different perspective, imo.
As many have stated, it is an unfortunate situation all around, and there will be folks who end up on every side of the deal.
I'm surprised by sjm's take here too.
sjm -- do you really believe this public proclamation by all these players only affected them personally? If 9 guys proclaim they aren't going to play, then guy number 10 decides to follow course out of a sense of solidarity. So someone like Sky is practically taking food off of his family's table because of his sense of solidarity.
While changing your mind and playing in such a situation is not an unpardonable sin, it is at a miminum a slightly disrespectful move towards those that didn't play. A move that a wise player would properly acknowledge.
Guess I feel stronger about this than I thought. When it's all said and done, and we have manged to rattle in our last game winning 9 ball and can cue no more, what will we have left if not our reputation? So being a man of your word ranks right up near the top for me. That's even if we live in a sporting world completely full of personalities that don't keep theirs. Admitting when your wrong ranks right up there too.
Yes, and I said as much in post 60, in which I noted to Jaden:
I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion that the political aftermath of these flip-flops in decision making could have been and should have been handled differently.
We all understand that the situation was mishandled, but the overblowing of it is, to me, shocking, and I will not adopt the view than anyone's integrity has been brought into question.
A reasonable point, but I count some sponsors, event producers, players, and WPA members as friends and am very knowledgeable about and sensitive to the challenges of each at this turbulent moment in the history of our game.
this is likely true. no coincidence that most of the top players there were predator players. but i think what irked people was the passage about really wanting a world 8-ball trophy.
Some folks love to hate pro players and will take every opportunity to pick scabs and hope them bleed forever more. It's fun fodder for them. Makes them feel knowledgeable and big in the pool world.
Meanwhile, all the pro players and pool enthusiasts will be on one side of the room having fun, enjoying pool to the fullest, while the haters are in a corner by themselves on the outside looking it. Let them hate. They belong in that corner.
It is amazing that some people just refuse to accept that Filler signed the Matchroom prepared document with the understanding that the Hanoi Open was in jeopardy of happening and that the event needed to be sanctioned by the WPA. He said it in his statement, but people already made up their minds on "the word." Of course, we know now that the Hanoi Open is happening and it doesn't need to be sanctioned by the WPA, albeit players might be ridiculously banned for playing it in. Sounds like a bunch of Shylocks to me so it's time to stop wasting time on them.
No doubt, JAM, the players have no more fervent advocate than you. Mine is a more panoramic view of our sport than yours, and it's not clear whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. My sympathies usually lie with the players, but not on every occasion. In fact, there are times when my sympathies lie with the event producers like Matchroom, victims of incessant WPA bullying.
The players know they have an advocate in me but no, I am not uniformly pro player. That said, my issues with players arise from misbehavior inside the arena of battle. It pained me when a) Thorpe cursed out Saez in a streamed match and b) Appleton verbally, and publicly, abused a WADA official during a Matchroom major, c) Strickland chewed out a fan, referee, sponsor or tournament official publicly, and I've probably seen it live at least twenty times.
In the wake of the Qatar meetings of October 2023, I posted a thread in which I took great exception to the decisions made by WPA. The final sentence of my post was this:
Finally, I’d like to make a request of my AZB brethren. Let’s not ever view any players as defectors or traitors, for whatever choices they make, they remain victims denied a chance to maximize earnings in their chosen profession.
I foresaw the struggles pro players would face, the difficult choices they were going to have to make, and the fact that some fans, sponsors and event producers might try to roast some of them over the coals as they tried to deal with the turbulence that our sport now faces and will continue to face in the foreseeable future.
I'm disappointed that the request I made in my October 2023 thread has not been granted, but I respect everyone's right to interpret the actions of players as they please. Still, to use the terminology of others in this thread, the top pros are political footballs backed into a corner and it's a shame that so few seem to understand it and give them due latitude.
How each of the pros plays the politics of the moment does not matter to me.
was just simply noting that these folks are likely more than just a competitor or personality watched on a stream when you have spent time with them.
This is confusing. Why are pool players beyond reproach to you? This is, after all, a pool discussion forum. This matter was put on blast with public facebook posts by the players. It isn't something they decided in private amongst themselves, which would have likely been better anyway. Folks can take issue with what a professional athlete does in public without being a "hater". It happens with every sport. You don't need to try and put anyone in a corner for having a different opinion...that is the kind of thing that stifles the free flow of information and ideas.
You are making way too much sense.
JAM believes, perhaps because she lives with a former pro player, she is entitled to come here and go all medieval on us, though she has few if any pool credentials of her own beyond posting on the billiard forums. She has been doing this for over two decades, always with the same mantra: pro pool players can do no wrong and if you dare criticize them I'm going to get all up in your grill... just because it's what I do.
My wife is a nurse but there is no way I'd do what JAM does and get on a nursing forum and go all scorched Earth if someone criticizes the actions of some in the profession.
Lou Figueroa
Valid points. My post was directed at the trolls of this forum who continue to target pro players ad nauseum. I don't have to point out who they are. It's evident by the flippant posts in an attempt to create a flame thead. I'm older and wiser now and know better than to reply.
My post was not directed at you. I agree with much of what you write.
Unfortunately, the opposite is true. Just turn on any station and look at who is lying into the biggest megaphone of all time.
What they SHOULD do and what they ACTUALLY do are rarely the same thing...lol
Jaden
Honestly curious what a player would have to do to meet your criteria for a lack of integrity, then?
Filler is a great young player, but plain facts are he said something, did the opposite last minute(while others held true) and benefitted hugely from it.
And all while he's one of the few players in a financial position to actually make a stand, and is supposed to be considered one of the top ambassadors for the sport.
IMO Brushing that aside, saying it's over blown, and not acknowledging that there's a huge asterisk on that title, to me has the same tone of a parent with rose colored glasses who thinks their best little boy could do no wrong.
He did wrong. People are right to acknowledge it. He should acknowledge it.
And grow from it, and move past it.
Props to Sky.
Pretty much blamed his wife's schedule.
What a putz.
It’s funny, I sort of consider Stu as the “don” of azb, he is always very articulate and reasoned on most subjects. Plus it feels like I’m seeing a friend when he is table side.
Having said that, I have to disagree. I think the bottom line is predator told them to play,Albin admitted that and if Josh had said the same , he would have come off better.
I agree with skylar, your word should mean something and if you really have to backtrack, then man up about it!
I actually like Josh and his celebrations etc but this has muddied the waters for me!
Having said that, I have to disagree. I think the bottom line is predator told them to play,Albin admitted that and if Josh had said the same , he would have come off better.
I agree with skylar, your word should mean something and if you really have to backtrack, then man up about it!
I actually like Josh and his celebrations etc but this has muddied the waters for me!