Slip stroke with Wrapless cue?
- Thread starter cbi1000
- Start date
Can you define what you mean by a slip stroke? A lot of people think it means "throwing" the cue at the ball, i.e., letting it slide forward on the final stroke. But that's not its original meaning. A classic slip stroke, like Mosconi's, is letting your grip hand slide back on the final backswing.
I suspect that the old-timers who slipstroked used powder on the cue to make it slip more easily, even with an irish linen wrap. It would surely be difficult to do with a modern finish wrapless cue.
What I mean is letting the cue slide forward just a bit on the stroke, kind of like what you mean throwing the cue at the ball. But the cue slides just a small bit, .5 inch?
i've never slip stroked a shot before, i have no idea
Think of it this way:
And, yes, a stroke slip, or throw, can be done with a wrapless cue.
Slip stroke -- The grip hand slips back on the butt just prior to the forward stroke at the cue ball.
Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw").
Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw").
And, yes, a stroke slip, or throw, can be done with a wrapless cue.
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Ok, then a STROKE slip is what i'm asking for, thanks for the input.
That's what I suspected. The classic slip stroke has gone out of style. I really can't help you because I've never tried the throwing motion. I have tried the classic slip stroke but was never able to do it consistently. To me it seemed clumsy and unnecessary.
I guess I think that also about the throwing motion slip, but who am I to judge? I guess one advantage of the throw is that your grip hand remains loose and less likely to steer the cue off course, but it surely isn't necessary. I think worrying about it is likely to distract you rather than help you. If it comes natural, then fine. If not, fuggedaboutit. By itself it's not going to change what happens to the cue ball.
Somebody posted a Greenleaf video recently showing him doing trick shots for a film short. I was not surprised to see him use a mild classic slip stroke, since Mosconi used one and he copied a lot from Greenleaf. Neither had a big one, just 2 or 3 inches, and I'm not sure Greenleaf used it on all shots. Mosconi did, though.
Slip Stroke with Wrapless cue?
I've never heard (or seen) a Stroke slip....it would seem almost impossible to control the speed of the forward stroke.
However, I HAVE a "Slip-Stroke" and have had it for around 50 years of playing A LOT OF POOL !
It came about from playing mostly Straight Pool with many soft speed position shots requiring a delicate touch,
thereby holding the cue VERY lightly. Sometimes holding the cue very softly allows the grip hand to slide
(sometimes both directions during the practice strokes). During the follow through, the grip hand does not slide
either direction. I play with a coated wrap (slick finish) or a highly polished smooth linen wrap. F.Y.I.
I've never heard (or seen) a Stroke slip....it would seem almost impossible to control the speed of the forward stroke.
However, I HAVE a "Slip-Stroke" and have had it for around 50 years of playing A LOT OF POOL !
It came about from playing mostly Straight Pool with many soft speed position shots requiring a delicate touch,
thereby holding the cue VERY lightly. Sometimes holding the cue very softly allows the grip hand to slide
(sometimes both directions during the practice strokes). During the follow through, the grip hand does not slide
either direction. I play with a coated wrap (slick finish) or a highly polished smooth linen wrap. F.Y.I.
nancewayne: No, certainly not impossible; several champions have done it that way. Here's a link to a lengthy thread from last year about throwing the cue (or stroke slip, or release and catch, or throw to the table). As you'll see, it was a somewhat controversial discussion.
Applying some furniture polish to your cue will help it slide through hand considerably.
I'm not aware of much theoretical justification for a "slip stroke," but a number of excellent players have done it that way.
A "stroke slip" (throw), on the other hand, does have some theoretical justification. The concept is debated in the link in post #9 of this thread.
Most notable slip stroke player.....
Efren Bata Reyes uses a slip stroke with wrapless cues. From my own practices, the advantage of a slip stroke is that the momentum of the cue sliding on its own has a very straight and true path that isnt controlled with a tighter grip which can really hinder the accuracy of your stroke on the follow through ( Again from my own practices and notetaking ). But in MY own personal experience and observations of other cue artists out there who too use a slip stroke, its a controlled throw of the cue. Just watch Efren and when he strokes his shots where he slip strokes. You'll clearly see his wrist do a whip type action that throws the cue foward and through his grip when he follows through. The cue slides several inches from the beginning of his grip position. Also I only use the slip stroke when power or much action is needed on the shot. The slip stroke also works wonders in combination with BHE. Again from my experience and experimentation
Efren Bata Reyes uses a slip stroke with wrapless cues. From my own practices, the advantage of a slip stroke is that the momentum of the cue sliding on its own has a very straight and true path that isnt controlled with a tighter grip which can really hinder the accuracy of your stroke on the follow through ( Again from my own practices and notetaking ). But in MY own personal experience and observations of other cue artists out there who too use a slip stroke, its a controlled throw of the cue. Just watch Efren and when he strokes his shots where he slip strokes. You'll clearly see his wrist do a whip type action that throws the cue foward and through his grip when he follows through. The cue slides several inches from the beginning of his grip position. Also I only use the slip stroke when power or much action is needed on the shot. The slip stroke also works wonders in combination with BHE. Again from my experience and experimentation
PistolPat -- The stroking action you are describing is a "stroke slip" or throw, not a "slip stroke" in the classic meaning of that term. Please read post #5 in this thread, and the thread cited in post #9 of this thread, and you will see the difference.
Ive got a slip stroke, and I have a leather wrap. So its possible with a leather wrap.
Like I said, not all shots are the stroke used for...
Watch more videos and youll see it. You'll even see the whip action Im talking about too if you watch the Efren VS Alcano video. Its the shot where efren draws the cue ball back and breaks loose a 3 ball cluster. Watch his wrist for the whip. You will see that exact same movement when you see him take other shots where teh slip stroke is visible. Even O Dominguez will concur that Efren has a slip stroke. Trust me its there, just dont try to imitate it, you wont ever get the same results
Watch more videos and youll see it. You'll even see the whip action Im talking about too if you watch the Efren VS Alcano video. Its the shot where efren draws the cue ball back and breaks loose a 3 ball cluster. Watch his wrist for the whip. You will see that exact same movement when you see him take other shots where teh slip stroke is visible. Even O Dominguez will concur that Efren has a slip stroke. Trust me its there, just dont try to imitate it, you wont ever get the same results
u guys know what I mean.........
Lol, I need to talk to Efren and tell him he's wrong in saying he slip strokes it.
Lol, I need to talk to Efren and tell him he's wrong in saying he slip strokes it.
In post #5, I said "yes."
In post #13, PistolPat said Efren does it with a wrapless cue.
The cue just won't slide quite so easily as with a more slippery butt. But one way to make a wrapless butt more slippery is to remove the normal high-gloss finish and apply an oil finish (tung oil or gunstock oil, for example).