Sloppy and incompetent work by Jim Pierce, poor customer service

[mnb]

Since your "agreement" Jim has been receiving harassing text messages, phone calls, and Facebook posts regarding your cue.

My understanding was that your agreement set down conditions for both of you to uphold.

I forgot to add harassing e-mails to the list above.

You have been ignoring the parts of your agreement that require you to do something. Then you keep coming back in this thread crying "foul". :sad:

Would you care to revise the statement you made below, or do you stand by it as the truth?

I don't believe that Jim has been receiving text messages, phone calls, or Facebook posts regarding this. He certainly has not received anything from me, nor have I had anyone send him anything.

 

[Salamander]

I forgot to add harassing e-mails to the list above.

You have been ignoring the parts of your agreement that require you to do something. Then you keep coming back in this thread crying "foul". :sad:

Would you care to revise the statement you made below, or do you stand by it as the truth?

There are no harassing emails. That's bs. The only thing I have sent him is a reminder to send me the check that he promised me 16 days ago. I will probably continue to send him reminders since he seems to have a problem holding up his end of the bargain.

The only part of the agreement that I have yet to fulfill is to send the shaft made for me by Jim back to him and to post that our business is finished and I am satisfied. This, of course, will NOT be done until Jim Pierce sends me a check for $500 as agreed. You get it yet? I don't know how more clear I can make it for you.

Since you seem to be Jim Pierces' envoy, tell him to cough up that check that he so graciously promised me over 2 weeks ago, and I'll follow through with my promise.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I've read many of your posts on az before and they are almost always contentious....I think you like to stir up trouble. JMO

Really now, I think if you read most of my posts, you would realize that I joke around more than anything. I have in the past stated my opinions on certain topics such as the APB etc. I also post when ever someone asks for repair advice.

My apologies for posting in your thread. Had I known that you were only accepting posts that were in agreement with your perceived problem, I would have refrained.

Good luck with getting your money. I am sure Jim will get around to sending it. Just not as quick as you think it should be done. But then, people that know you from the hall also stated that you have a bit of an attitude yourself.

 

[Salamander]

I think people are entitled to their opinion. What I find amazing is when people like yourself come on here and suggest that I am the bad guy here, particularly when they don't know the facts. I've bought and sold hundreds of cues and had very few issues. Always offering a return policy.

All I can say is I wish you could see this cue, read through the emails I got from Jim, and go through what I went through and maybe, just maybe, you might have a different outlook on it.

I've had several pm's from people with similar horror stories about Jim Pierce. All, except for one, do not want to post their problems. I respect that since I can understand not getting involved.

I'll tell you something, it's no fun pulling this cue out of the case and looking at it. It really makes me sick.

I invite anyone in the Colorado area to look at this cue. I'm also happy to drive up to Denver and show it.

Anyway, have a nice day Blue Hog ridr, I sincerely hope something like this never happens to you.

Really now, I think if you read most of my posts, you would realize that I joke around more than anything. I have in the past stated my opinions on certain topics such as the APB etc. I also post when ever someone asks for repair advice.

My apologies for posting in your thread. Had I known that you were only accepting posts that were in agreement with your perceived problem, I would have refrained.

Good luck with getting your money. I am sure Jim will get around to sending it. Just not as quick as you think it should be done. But then, people that know you from the hall also stated that you have a bit of an attitude yourself.

 

[cueman]

His last offer was to pay Wheeler to try and fix his mistakes...and I would pay him (Jim) for his "work". This offer was rejected by me because it does not correct the forearm issue, which Wheeler assures me was not present when it was sent to Jim. On top of that Wheeler told me that he may not have the necessary inlay materal to recreate the butt sleeve. QUOTE]

Mike would not have to recreate the butt sleeve. He would just cut it off, make an ebony ring the length that needs to be between the wrap and butt sleeve and and put it all back together and refinish the butt sleeve. If that forearm was not refinished I do not think Mr Pierce did the forearm issue. If you remove the wrap and find the other 4 holes for the wrap up 1/16" or 1/8" from the end hole the wrap is in now then it might be his fault. But if more than one is at the end then he is right and it has been shortened over multiple wrap changes. And only one hole at the end does not mean he did it either as he may have reused the existing hole.

 

[mnb]

Mike would not have to recreate the butt sleeve. He would just cut it off, make an ebony ring the length that needs to be between the wrap and butt sleeve and and put it all back together and refinish the butt sleeve.

This is nearly word for word what Jim told Doug about how to fix the ring issue.

Doug's response was that to repair the cue in such a way would be a "hack job", completely unacceptable, and that Jim had no clue what he was talking about.

 

[ShootingArts]

half rings

This is nearly word for word what Jim told Doug about how to fix the ring issue.

Doug's response was that to repair the cue in such a way would be a "hack job", completely unacceptable, and that Jim had no clue what he was talking about.

The simplest way to repair that is with half rings. You do no damage to the cue and the glue lines would be totally invisible if you use the right glue. While cutting the back of the cue off shouldn't affect the hit at all doing major work to extend the area in question would be a lot of extra work and risk to fix a cosmetic issue. Put a split ring or half rings on the cue and rewrap. Done deal.

Hu

 

[JMW]

The simplest way to repair that is with half rings. You do no damage to the cue and the glue lines would be totally invisible if you use the right glue. While cutting the back of the cue off shouldn't affect the hit at all doing major work to extend the area in question would be a lot of extra work and risk to fix a cosmetic issue. Put a split ring or half rings on the cue and rewrap. Done deal.

Hu

Slandermander may have a hard time finding someone to repair if the cue maker is familiar with this thread.

 

[magnetardo]

The simplest way to repair that is with half rings. You do no damage to the cue and the glue lines would be totally invisible if you use the right glue. While cutting the back of the cue off shouldn't affect the hit at all doing major work to extend the area in question would be a lot of extra work and risk to fix a cosmetic issue. Put a split ring or half rings on the cue and rewrap. Done deal.

Hu

How does that fix the forearm that was trashed?

 

[ShootingArts]

two things

How does that fix the forearm that was trashed?

Two things to consider:

One, we are talking about fixing the extended wrap area, nothing to do with the forearm.

Two, I don't know that the forearm is trashed. The photography is pretty much meaningless to show fine detail of the supposed bottleneck issue with the huge fisheye issue with the lens. He needs to wrap the forearm in something like a dollar bill to protect the finish and then take some measurements every inch or two and record them. Once we know the extent of any bottleneck issue we can discuss how to fix it, assuming first that there is an issue and second that it can be fixed.

Unfortunately I agree with another recent poster in this thread, I wouldn't touch this cue with a ten foot pole and I don't know of another cue builder or repair person that would. For me to even consider it, the cue would have to be hand delivered and pictures taken and a full listing of the cue's condition at the time would have to be agreed to and signed by all parties. More headache than I am interested in trying to satisfy somebody else's unhappy customer. Once someone is unhappy with a cue they can find many real and imaginary flaws. I have dealt with customers since the sixties. The vast majority happy but the occasional unhappy customer, justified or not, was usually impossible to please.

Fair or not, there was more than one reputation damaged in this thread. Exposing a cue builder on a forum often exposes a customer also. Customers that one person in the business can't please are often customers that can't be pleased. Over the years I have found I can avoid about 90% of the issues with customers by refusing to work with maybe 2% of the customers.

Very very often customers getting something after work has been done find flaws that were present when the item went in the shop and they have never noticed before or forgotten about. I don't know if this is the case here but it is certainly possible. Both the extended wrap area which does seem to be a fact now and the possible bottleneck may well have been there before the refinish. I would like to know the amount of bottleneck and if it is in the wood or finish.

When someone says a man did one thing to a cue that his work shouldn't have caused I say maybe, strange things can happen. But the more things you pile together the more skeptical I become. Bring a car in the shop to do a tune-up and find a scratch on a door I say maybe. Find a scratch on the door, a rip in the seat and a dent in the bumper, all supposed to be caused by the mechanic shop, it is still possible but the chances of it being accurate are far more remote.

Hu

 

[Tro]

I'm not a friend of the cuemaker or the customer here, but I've read this thread front to back and I felt the need to say something....

People have to remember how powerful words can be. You see it in the media everyday....alleged this, accused that, etc. We all know that it doesnt matter if you read a newspaper article and the title reads "Man accused of setting fire to a preschool"...we don't see the accused, we see "Man burns kids".

I'm hoping that the work done on the cue and Mr. Pierce's reputation was worth the ceiling value of that cue. Let's go as far as saying on a great day in June, that cue would sell for 1500.00 brand new.

Would you make an attempt to destroy a man's reputation and livelyhood for 1500.00?

It just saddens me how little value people place on one another. The internet is a great tool and has opened up a number of venues for us to express ourselves. Unfortunately, like a lot of other things in this world, we abuse it and give very little thought to how our actions affect others.

You think you were wronged. Mr. Pierce feels he offered a number of solutions to remedy the situation. Somewhere along the way, the entire thing went off the rails.

You're pissed. He's pissed. There's no longer a middle ground and the truth, wherever it is out there, is lost on all of us because we've all picked our own truths from what we've read and we've made our own 'informed' decisions.

If I walked up to you and handed you 1500.00 for that cue and I then went to Mr. Pierce's house and removed all memory of your existence from his mind, where would we be?

I'll tell you.

At the price of 1500.00 (Max Value) you've planted a seed for Mr. Pierce and yourself that'll never die. No matter how many customers he satisfies, how many cues he makes that are top notch, how many shows he goes to and kisses babies, or how many cue repairs he makes that are flawless, there will be people out there that associate this thread with his name.

On the flipside, no matter how many cues you buy, sell, or trade, there will be people out there that will steer clear of any dealings with you for fear of this thread.

In the end, I think this all could have been avoided early on and it really is ashame that people put so much value on objects and so little value on other people.

I'll buy a cue from Mr. Pierce and if I ever have a problem with it, I'll send it back. If he fixes it and has a hiccup, we'll work it out. If, for some reason, something happens and an incident occurs that we have to get creative to reach an acceptable solution, we will.

In the end, neither his nor my livelyhood or reputation are worth the price of a piece of glorified lumber.

Mike

 

[subdude1974]

I dont have a dog in the fight but....

Been reading all 13 pages of this and have a couple questions for Doug.

Did Jim refinish the entire cue or just the butt sleeve? When rolled on the table, does the joint bounce or is it a uniform roll with light showing all the way around? Have you contacted the original owner of the cue to see if it had been worked on prior to you owning it? I dont know if it can be done. I dont know the guy you got it from.

Now couple for Jim. Are you gonna make it right? Is the check in the mail? Do you have any emails you can share with the group showing Doug berating you?

As for the rest of AZ, from reading ALL the posts on here, good points have been made. Some bad ones as well. But if everything that has been said is true, why wouldnt I be justified calling a cuemaker out for fuqing up my cue if they did nothing about it? The excuse of it is someones livelihood is not a good one. If I made a living off preying on people, is it wrong to make others aware of it? I think I would be doing all a disservice if I didnt say something. Not saying that is what Jim has done or is doing, just making a point. I have made no judgement one way or the other. Need some info before I can make the call for myself.

 

[JMW]

Now couple for Jim. Are you gonna make it right? Is the check in the mail? Do you have any emails you can share with the group showing Doug berating you?

Jim was banned and can't respond to this thread. Does anyone know how long the ban is? I look forward to hearing the other side of the story when he comes back.

 

[Salamander]

Jim refinished the entire cue. The joint does not bounce, there is uniform light showing all the way around for about 3 inches....shaped like an hour glass. The previous owner was the collector Burt Kellerman, who at one time had probably the largest colllection of pool cues in the country (now deceased). Mike Wheeler made the cue for Kellerman. I feel confident that the cue had never been worked on prior to sending it to Pierce. The cue was in very nice condition. I originally sent it to Pierce to try one of his shafts. We both decided that the cue could use a refinish because the original finish had some shrinkage, exposing rings, etc....

Been reading all 13 pages of this and have a couple questions for Doug.

Did Jim refinish the entire cue or just the butt sleeve? When rolled on the table, does the joint bounce or is it a uniform roll with light showing all the way around? Have you contacted the original owner of the cue to see if it had been worked on prior to you owning it? I dont know if it can be done. I dont know the guy you got it from.

Now couple for Jim. Are you gonna make it right? Is the check in the mail? Do you have any emails you can share with the group showing Doug berating you?

As for the rest of AZ, from reading ALL the posts on here, good points have been made. Some bad ones as well. But if everything that has been said is true, why wouldnt I be justified calling a cuemaker out for fuqing up my cue if they did nothing about it? The excuse of it is someones livelihood is not a good one. If I made a living off preying on people, is it wrong to make others aware of it? I think I would be doing all a disservice if I didnt say something. Not saying that is what Jim has done or is doing, just making a point. I have made no judgement one way or the other. Need some info before I can make the call for myself.

 

[Salamander]

Yes he could cut the cue by the wrap area, but that does affect the integrity of the original construction. Mike did not want to do that.

As mentioned the forearm was refinished by Pierce. I don't remember the "hour glass" shape. Mike Wheeler swears up and down that he would not put out a product like that (my other Wheeler is perfect).

If you go back a few pages, or do a search of photo's that I have of the cue on AZ prior to sending to Pierce, you will see that the rings above and below the wrap were fine. There is absolutely NO question that Pierce cue into the rings above and below the wrap. On this I would bet my life.

Mike would not have to recreate the butt sleeve. He would just cut it off, make an ebony ring the length that needs to be between the wrap and butt sleeve and and put it all back together and refinish the butt sleeve. If that forearm was not refinished I do not think Mr Pierce did the forearm issue. If you remove the wrap and find the other 4 holes for the wrap up 1/16" or 1/8" from the end hole the wrap is in now then it might be his fault. But if more than one is at the end then he is right and it has been shortened over multiple wrap changes. And only one hole at the end does not mean he did it either as he may have reused the existing hole.

 

[Salamander]

This is nearly word for word what Jim told Doug about how to fix the ring issue.

Doug's response was that to repair the cue in such a way would be a "hack job", completely unacceptable, and that Jim had no clue what he was talking about.

How would you know what I said, were you on the phone with us? Wrong again.

Mike Wheeler does not want to do this because it does change the way the cue was originally built, nor does it fix the forearm, or the shaft issues, etc....

Besides, Jim Pierce already agreed to send me a check for $500 to make this right. Where's my check? Since you are Jim Pierce's mouthpiece, tell him to send it in the mail to me.

 

[Salamander]

Slandermander may have a hard time finding someone to repair if the cue maker is familiar with this thread.

Cute take on my user name. Hope you never have a cue butchered.

 

[Salamander]

Responces in Red

Two things to consider:

One, we are talking about fixing the extended wrap area, nothing to do with the forearm.

Two, I don't know that the forearm is trashed. The photography is pretty much meaningless to show fine detail of the supposed bottleneck issue with the huge fisheye issue with the lens. He needs to wrap the forearm in something like a dollar bill to protect the finish and then take some measurements every inch or two and record them. Once we know the extent of any bottleneck issue we can discuss how to fix it, assuming first that there is an issue and second that it can be fixed.

There is an issue, I don't have calipars, and it cannot be fixed unless you wanted to add a ton of clearcoat

Unfortunately I agree with another recent poster in this thread, I wouldn't touch this cue with a ten foot pole and I don't know of another cue builder or repair person that would.

I agree with this TOTALLY

For me to even consider it, the cue would have to be hand delivered and pictures taken and a full listing of the cue's condition at the time would have to be agreed to and signed by all parties. More headache than I am interested in trying to satisfy somebody else's unhappy customer. Once someone is unhappy with a cue they can find many real and imaginary flaws. I have dealt with customers since the sixties. The vast majority happy but the occasional unhappy customer, justified or not, was usually impossible to please.

Fair or not, there was more than one reputation damaged in this thread. Exposing a cue builder on a forum often exposes a customer also.

I can care less what some people think of me. My business is not connected to the billiard industry. I also know that what I say is the truth and because of that I am very comfortable about starting this thread

Customers that one person in the business can't please are often customers that can't be pleased. Over the years I have found I can avoid about 90% of the issues with customers by refusing to work with maybe 2% of the customers.

Sounds reasonable. Except everyone that I have shown this cue to says they would be pissed as well, if it was done to them.

Very very often customers getting something after work has been done find flaws that were present when the item went in the shop and they have never noticed before or forgotten about. I don't know if this is the case here but it is certainly possible.

Actually it's impossible, since my before photo's certainly show the rings intact.

Both the extended wrap area which does seem to be a fact now and the possible bottleneck may well have been there before the refinish.

Nope. Again look at the before photo's that were posted on AZ prior to sending to Pierce

I would like to know the amount of bottleneck and if it is in the wood or finish.

No calipars. If you ever visit Colorado, stop and buy and check it out yourself. I'll buy you a beer while you look it over.

When someone says a man did one thing to a cue that his work shouldn't have caused I say maybe, strange things can happen. But the more things you pile together the more skeptical I become.

I would be sceptical to. What Jim did to this cue is a comedy of errors. I'm still not convinced that he did the work. I'm wondering it he did not have an apprentice do it

Bring a car in the shop to do a tune-up and find a scratch on a door I say maybe. Find a scratch on the door, a rip in the seat and a dent in the bumper, all supposed to be caused by the mechanic shop, it is still possible but the chances of it being accurate are far more remote.

Remote or not, it is what it is, and I have the proof sitting right in front of me

Hu

 

[JonTravisTaylor]

Jim was banned and can't respond to this thread. Does anyone know how long the ban is? I look forward to hearing the other side of the story when he comes back.

Jim is banned until June 14th...basically he is expected to swallow all the BS that Slandermander and Trob are slinging...which include FB attcks and emails...Jim is apassionate guy, and finally after repeated attempts he told the 2 of them to take a flying FQ...who could blame him? I personally can only take so much unitl regardless of who is right or wrong, after all the mud slinging, you would NEVER get a resolution out of me...the bottom line is 99% of the people that deal with Jim know he is a stand up guy and will go the extra mile to make things the way you want it...and for that 1%?? Who wants your business anyway because this thread is a perfect example of how you behave, why risk it...I wonder MR. Slanderxxxx does Weston will still do business with you after the way you treated him in the threads? At this rate you may need to learn to make your own repairs cause the actual CUEMAKERS will not take your calls...I guess its a good thing you are listed on here under a fake name...if people take the time to look at your history of posts they will see that you have PAGES and PAGES of grief with multiple cuemakers and AZ's...maybe sir You are the problem...

 

[Salamander]

That is a very fair and well written message. Except, I am a man of principals. I tried in vain, well prior to starting thread, to get Jim to do something to "fix" the problem. He stonewalled me at every turn. I did not start this thread until I had thought I had exhausted every avenue to try and reach a resolution. Jim would not return calls, emails, nothing. Even when he said he would send me a check to compensate for the damage, he never followed through. It may only be $1,500, but it's my $1,500, and I'm not fond of how I was treated.

What's funny, is that Jim Pierce called me a couple of days ago and left a message that said "give me a call Doug, when you get a chance". Well, I called him, had to leave a message, no return call. Left a couple of emails asking what he wanted, no response. The guy truly baffles me.

Yes its just a piece of wood, but it my piece of wood, and quite frankly, if Jim had any decency and business sense at all, this could have all been avoided.

I'm not a friend of the cuemaker or the customer here, but I've read this thread front to back and I felt the need to say something....

People have to remember how powerful words can be. You see it in the media everyday....alleged this, accused that, etc. We all know that it doesnt matter if you read a newspaper article and the title reads "Man accused of setting fire to a preschool"...we don't see the accused, we see "Man burns kids".

I'm hoping that the work done on the cue and Mr. Pierce's reputation was worth the ceiling value of that cue. Let's go as far as saying on a great day in June, that cue would sell for 1500.00 brand new.

Would you make an attempt to destroy a man's reputation and livelyhood for 1500.00?

It just saddens me how little value people place on one another. The internet is a great tool and has opened up a number of venues for us to express ourselves. Unfortunately, like a lot of other things in this world, we abuse it and give very little thought to how our actions affect others.

You think you were wronged. Mr. Pierce feels he offered a number of solutions to remedy the situation. Somewhere along the way, the entire thing went off the rails.

You're pissed. He's pissed. There's no longer a middle ground and the truth, wherever it is out there, is lost on all of us because we've all picked our own truths from what we've read and we've made our own 'informed' decisions.

If I walked up to you and handed you 1500.00 for that cue and I then went to Mr. Pierce's house and removed all memory of your existence from his mind, where would we be?

I'll tell you.

At the price of 1500.00 (Max Value) you've planted a seed for Mr. Pierce and yourself that'll never die. No matter how many customers he satisfies, how many cues he makes that are top notch, how many shows he goes to and kisses babies, or how many cue repairs he makes that are flawless, there will be people out there that associate this thread with his name.

On the flipside, no matter how many cues you buy, sell, or trade, there will be people out there that will steer clear of any dealings with you for fear of this thread.

In the end, I think this all could have been avoided early on and it really is ashame that people put so much value on objects and so little value on other people.

I'll buy a cue from Mr. Pierce and if I ever have a problem with it, I'll send it back. If he fixes it and has a hiccup, we'll work it out. If, for some reason, something happens and an incident occurs that we have to get creative to reach an acceptable solution, we will.

In the end, neither his nor my livelyhood or reputation are worth the price of a piece of glorified lumber.

Mike