Well said Mark. I learned long ago not to bite the hand that feeds you. Don't poke the Bear!
Small turnaround at US open? where are all pool pros?
- Thread starter mel_smOg
- Start date
Well said Mark. I learned long ago not to bite the hand that feeds you. Don't poke the Bear!
The Natural Process of Change - seeds to plants, caterpillars to butterflies
In 5 years we will all look back at this and admit it was the best thing to ever happen. For things to change there MUST BE PAIN......or the appearance of it anyway....this is true in business, in relationships and in nature it's self.....pool is no exception. imho
In 5 years we will all look back at this and admit it was the best thing to ever happen. For things to change there MUST BE PAIN......or the appearance of it anyway....this is true in business, in relationships and in nature it's self.....pool is no exception. imho
In 5 years we will all look back at this and admit it was the best thing to ever happen. For things to change there MUST BE PAIN......or the appearance of it anyway....this is true in business, in relationships and in nature it's self.....pool is no exception. imho
No pain no gain
I don't mind it, either. With no more "pro" events, the "pro" players would not only be forced to get jobs like the rest of us, they would become amateur players like the rest of us; albeit very highly skilled amateur players. I think the BCAPL already has a category for them; it's called Grand Masters. It would be neat to see our former "pros" playing on league teams. Don't laugh, it could happen. You could have a rule that would allow no more than one Grand Master per team.
What do you think, Mark?
Roger
Roger Long said:
As far as I'm concerned, teams can have all the Grand Masters they want: However, Grand Wizards are NOT allowed under any circumstances.
Not laughing
Interesting Post Roger,
Yes it seems that is a very possible trend that sort of makes sense. Were that to happen a new crop of pros would eventually emerge. Possibly people who felt honored to able to play the game and make money. Who knows what could happen under those circumstances.
Interesting Post Roger,
Yes it seems that is a very possible trend that sort of makes sense. Were that to happen a new crop of pros would eventually emerge. Possibly people who felt honored to able to play the game and make money. Who knows what could happen under those circumstances.
Everyone has opinions on the whole thing and that is fine, Bonus Ball did have some affect but certainly was not the cause. Personally I think if Tunica goes away it is because it was not the success that was expected of it and this past year showed that the numbers were the same as last year which had nothing to do with Bonus Ball considering majority of the players went to it. It is really easy to point the finger instead of accepting responsibility, it would be like saying negative podcast ruined Bonus Ball by influencing others which is laughable and not logical. Pro pool has been dying slowly for a good while, it is okay to admit failing at something but some find it easier to push blame on something convenient.
As for the US Open events I am sad to hear about it as I enjoy them, especially the one pocket event which to me is even better then Derby. I would not say Bonus Ball hurt or killed events but things the players chose to say and do might have hurt feelings. Sometimes people hold too much value on what others perceive them to be instead of their own perception of themselves, many times there is a difference of opinion of who you are and who people think you are. I hope pool does change for the better in 2014 and if Bonus Ball does a second season then maybe it will be condensed into a one month period which makes sense financially and also it can work around any events taking place.
As for the US Open events I am sad to hear about it as I enjoy them, especially the one pocket event which to me is even better then Derby. I would not say Bonus Ball hurt or killed events but things the players chose to say and do might have hurt feelings. Sometimes people hold too much value on what others perceive them to be instead of their own perception of themselves, many times there is a difference of opinion of who you are and who people think you are. I hope pool does change for the better in 2014 and if Bonus Ball does a second season then maybe it will be condensed into a one month period which makes sense financially and also it can work around any events taking place.
Pool is the only game where players can't stand the idea of someone being able to make a living at it. What could it possibly be other than jealousy? There is many problems with pool and this fact ranks very high! I have noticed many people here would actually love to see the end of professional pool, and you wonder what's wrong with pool??
Pain is weakness leaving the body ........
Pain is weakness leaving the body ........
Pain is weakness leaving the body ........
Pain is weakness leaving the body ........
Please tell me you didn't find that saying on a stall wall.
We all love you Neil.
We all love you Neil.. :angel: Thanks for guiding us, directing us and giving the strength to overcome the evil pool misinformation in the world.
We all love you Neil.. :angel: Thanks for guiding us, directing us and giving the strength to overcome the evil pool misinformation in the world.
If you're saying that the number of players at the Southern Classic was just as large in 2013 as in 2012, that's wrong. Banks was down from 153 in 2012 to 123 in 2013. One-Pocket was down from 159 to 121. 9-Ball in 2013 was just 84, but I don't seem to have the 2012 number.
If your post relates to spectators or vendors, I am ignorant as to any comparisons there.
Check your arithmetic; the situation is even worse than you figured!
As another example, let's use last year's 220 entrants and your estimate of $1,500 cost per player. That produces total expenses of $330,000. The prize fund was $170,000. So the net loss was $160,000, or over $700 per player on average.
I remember you bringing up the "buy backs" and it was in the neighborhood of $45,000
Thanks for clarifying that, and I think you see where I'm going with this. Everyone talks about not having the money to put pool on TV, yet by your numbers we have enough to have it on every week and PAY to do it.
I know we can't simply transfer the money from one scenario to the other, however, it's interesting to see how much money is lost by the pool players.
At the Derby City Classic I figured it was over $500,000, but I think we added in players (I'm too tired to calculate it now) , and an average amount of guests/family. What do you think the net loss is by just the players at the Derby City Classic, AtLarge? I remember you bringing up the "buy backs" and it was in the neighborhood of $45,000, is that correct?
Thanks for clarifying that, and I think you see where I'm going with this. Everyone talks about not having the money to put pool on TV, yet by your numbers we have enough to have it on every week and PAY to do it.
I know we can't simply transfer the money from one scenario to the other, however, it's interesting to see how much money is lost by the pool players.
At the Derby City Classic I figured it was over $500,000, but I think we added in players (I'm too tired to calculate it now) , and an average amount of guests/family. What do you think the net loss is by just the players at the Derby City Classic, AtLarge? I remember you bringing up the "buy backs" and it was in the neighborhood of $45,000, is that correct?
It would RE-THINK & RE-EDUCATE, something that the game has lacked for years :thumbup:
THIS is ONE of the main reasons why I STOPPED playing pro events!
At $300-500 a time there was just no payback...
I was never in it to win it, more of a journey man (which every sport needs). But I got tired of receiving nothing for my travels (air miles).
If incentives like TV screening, interviews and social interaction was a reality, I'd probably be touring still?
Instead, I now pick and choose which events I play (wish it were more) and CASH ALL THE TIME!
1% of something is better than 100% of nothing :thumbup:
Excellent post!
Bonus Ball continues to destroy American pool today by their mandatory requirement of players being present in Vegas for November, hopefully to get paid for past services render.
The Bonus Ball players have already lost money, those that moved to Vegas, only to have to leave again -- ABRUPTLY, with no warning.
Make no mistake about it, Bonus Ball continues to destroy the very fabric of American pool, scheduling their matches without any regard to other longstanding American events.
Is Bonus Ball the sole reason American professional pool is suffering? No, but it is the nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned, and those who promoted it on this forum over and over again seem to look the other way at the damage that has been done and is still being done by Bonus Ball. Bonus Ball has hurt profesional players, American promoters, and American events. PERMANENT DAMAGE!
How interesting that some of those Bonus Ball supporters that used to post multiple times every single day on AzBilliards Discussion Forum have vanished. They know what time of day it is, and so do the rest of us.
The Bonus Ball players have already lost money, those that moved to Vegas, only to have to leave again -- ABRUPTLY, with no warning.
Make no mistake about it, Bonus Ball continues to destroy the very fabric of American pool, scheduling their matches without any regard to other longstanding American events.
Is Bonus Ball the sole reason American professional pool is suffering? No, but it is the nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned, and those who promoted it on this forum over and over again seem to look the other way at the damage that has been done and is still being done by Bonus Ball. Bonus Ball has hurt profesional players, American promoters, and American events. PERMANENT DAMAGE!
How interesting that some of those Bonus Ball supporters that used to post multiple times every single day on AzBilliards Discussion Forum have vanished. They know what time of day it is, and so do the rest of us.
Pretty Plain to Me
I wouldn't speculate on BB and net loss per player but both circumstances obviously exist.
The hypothesis I get from all of this? Huge events can be huge liabilities and smaller more manageable events might need to be kept that way. If its just too gargantuan a task to manage 256 players then why not limit the field.
I'm not saying make it totally invitational either perhaps partially. If you have some top names to draw the crowd what would be wrong will allowing 40 pros enter an event the rest amateurs who were ready step it up a notch? Sure it might be like inviting some of the lambs to the slaughter but what about the guy that stands up and blows through everyone that yesterday was almost unknown? That's not a likely outcome but luck of the draw Is just luck of the draw and who knows?
I like 4 to 5 day events, less hotel bill for the losers and the winners, participation by the amateurs by having events for them that include the pros. This puts them in the seat of basically being included in the sponsorship of pro pool. More events means they will have more chances to do it and reap more personal rewards because they get to forge friendships with pro players they get to see where their money is going and maybe for the good will of the sport, the fun had playing,....they might not mind because they get something out of it.
Yeah I see Pro Pool scaling back but I see good things coming out of it and the possibilities for good things are endless. We might just look at this time as the great reformation of the sport after all.
I wouldn't speculate on BB and net loss per player but both circumstances obviously exist.
The hypothesis I get from all of this? Huge events can be huge liabilities and smaller more manageable events might need to be kept that way. If its just too gargantuan a task to manage 256 players then why not limit the field.
I'm not saying make it totally invitational either perhaps partially. If you have some top names to draw the crowd what would be wrong will allowing 40 pros enter an event the rest amateurs who were ready step it up a notch? Sure it might be like inviting some of the lambs to the slaughter but what about the guy that stands up and blows through everyone that yesterday was almost unknown? That's not a likely outcome but luck of the draw Is just luck of the draw and who knows?
I like 4 to 5 day events, less hotel bill for the losers and the winners, participation by the amateurs by having events for them that include the pros. This puts them in the seat of basically being included in the sponsorship of pro pool. More events means they will have more chances to do it and reap more personal rewards because they get to forge friendships with pro players they get to see where their money is going and maybe for the good will of the sport, the fun had playing,....they might not mind because they get something out of it.
Yeah I see Pro Pool scaling back but I see good things coming out of it and the possibilities for good things are endless. We might just look at this time as the great reformation of the sport after all.
