Small turnaround at US open? where are all pool pros?

true

Ken_4fun said:
I think you are wrong.

The kids remember it.

Listen to Freddy and so many on this board that talk about Fats, Mosconi. I have met Mike Massey (awesome with fans), Nick Varner and Johnny Archer (awesome with fans).

Some gifts you give away mean more than you think.

Ken
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Ken I think you are right but those gifts don't spend well and I cant imagine trying to be a pro player trying to make it.

I think its more of a problem of everyone who is in pool wants to make money off of it. There has to be a large base of people who are donators in order to have and support anything that people love. Those are the people you market to. Not the free range, non pool league players, its about money to them and they add little to the sport. Sure there are plenty of exceptions to that statement but by and large I think Im right.

Every great thing has to have its support and we wonder why the country is screwed up when the middle class is shrinking? In my book its the same thing and a lot of it is economics.

I think any pool enterprise that doesn't take that into account isn't going to do well and from what I'm see there is plenty not doing well. Perhaps we have forgotten our base?
 
JAM said:
If this is true, then the BCA should remove themselves from the competitive pool world, change their name, and call themselves the Billiard Industry Member Association. They do nothing for professional pool. While they continue on their quest to get fat, ignoring professional pool, the American professional players are starving, scrambling to make ends meet. If you believe pro players don't do anything for the sport, well, maybe it's because the American pool culture continues to have no respect for them and bashes them continuously, as evidenced quite frequently on this so-called "pool forum." :angry:

If I was a pro player today, I wouldn't be thinking about interacting with the American pool culture. I've tried it in the past for Keith, and the only thing you get is nothing back. Nobody remembers the charity events, the free autographs and pictures. Nobody remembers the lessons given to youngsters for free to help promote pool. The American pool culture only wants to point out every blemish and wart, ignoring any good that is done by these pros.
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They chose to whittle the player programs down too the Instructors Program. They felt this program would be their be$t way to increa$e play. All it really did was grease the pig....increase the bank account bottom line ONLY. Keep in mind the bank account was looking plump at 1MiL + at years end. But the powers that BE made sure their Turkey looked good FIRST...in spite of its long term consequences to its provider, the industry.
 
Island Drive said:
They chose to whittle the player programs down too the Instructors Program. They felt this program would be their be$t way to increa$e play. All it really did was grease the pig....increase the bank account bottom line ONLY. Keep in mind the bank account was looking plump at 1MiL + at years end. But the powers that BE made sure their Turkey looked good FIRST...in spite of its long term consequences to its provider, the industry.
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Which is why I blame the BCA for the current state of affairs in American professional pool.

You read comments about American pros, how selfish they are, they don't do anything for promote the sport, they're no-good bums with no jobs, et cetera, et cetera. Well, let's put the magnifying glass on the BCA, the so-called "governing body of professional pool" for North America. What a joke!

And for that matter, who needs the WPA anymore? We only have two or three Americans who can afford to compete in international events, while Europe and Asia have dozens at each international event.
 
well said jay

jay helfert said:
In fact anything they win at pool is like a gift to them, playing the game they love. :smiling-heart:
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I 100% agree with you here. IMO a player should never think that "pool owes them something". The other thing is when you are far away from your loved ones and trying to make the best out of every opportunity, you learn to appreciate even the little things around you.
 
336Robin said:
Jay,

Please excuse me because I don't really know you or a lot about you so if I seem stupid about what you have and have not done....I am.

Im trying to put things together in my area for an event and from what I am finding its nearly impossible to make the numbers work and we are talking an event where there is barely enough money added to attract a lot of pros so I wouldn't design it that way.

I don't see how anyone can add 20, 30, 50k to any event. I don't see the numbers working right to do it.

Has anyone ever made money on an event? It seems to me that its more about promoting a brand and paying for it.
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Ding Ding Ding, you have a winner. If there was money to be made in professional pool, then you would have a robust tour. It's just not a good business decision to host an event. The promoters that run tournaments now is because of the love of the game. That's why pro pool is dying in the US. It isn't financially feasible product. BB may or may not have hurt the game in the short run but the real reason is simple, it's the finances just as you stated.

Now with that said, having a vibrant tour can be very beneficial to the game's survival as a sport. It's a chicken and egg type of issue. The industry is reeling which means less money for sponsorship, etc. but by not supporting a viable tour that hurts the branding of the game as a sport. The big picture is to get the demographics of the game/sport changed. There should be a huge marketing push to get kids involved. That's how the game can grow. It will always survive, it's just too great of a game not too.

JAM said:
I'm going to say something that I'm sure will get me slammed, but I would like nothing more than to see Shane Van Boening go to college while he's still young. He's a good kid and deserves a better future than one afforded by the pool industry. I feel the same way about Brandon Shuff.
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I have to disagree. College isn't for everyone and it isn't the be all end all as it is marketed today. Take a person out of high school that enters a trade via apprenticeship or other way. They start making money immediately. Take someone that goes to college for 4 years and spends $$$ on tuition and lost revenue from not working. Plus, how many college graduates are out of work or not working in their trained field?

I'm not saying College isn't a good thing but it might not be the best thing for certain people. SVB makes more money I'm guessing than 90% or more Americans doing something he loves to do. He has created a brand that should take care of him financially the rest of his life. Maybe Jeanette Lee should go back to college so that she can have a better future than is afforded by the pool industry.

Jam, I understand your point but SVB may not be the best one to use to illustrate it.
 
dardusm said:
Jam, I understand your point but SVB may not be the best one to use to illustrate it.
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I won't be around, but in 30 years, you might look at this differently.

The pool lifestyhe, no matter how much money runs through the pool player's hands, is not ideal, especially when it comes to family.
 
JAM said:
Which is why I blame the BCA for the current state of affairs in American professional pool.

You read comments about American pros, how selfish they are, they don't do anything for promote the sport, they're no-good bums with no jobs, et cetera, et cetera. Well, let's put the magnifying glass on the BCA, the so-called "governing body of professional pool" for North America. What a joke!

And for that matter, who needs the WPA anymore? We only have two or three Americans who can afford to compete in international events, while Europe and Asia have dozens at each international event.
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It's the ONE thing the BCA could do for itself and the game, develop/implement an amateur points system with qualifying locations, one employee could easily coordinate this arm. Make any BCA room member a probable host location and evolve from there. BCA to post National Ads quarterly in P&B or BD for upcoming events.... or???
 
JAM said:
I won't be around, but in 30 years, you might look at this differently.

The pool lifestyhe, no matter how much money runs through the pool player's hands, is not ideal, especially when it comes to family.
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The same line of thought could be applied to any pro athlete or career minded individual that spends an exorbitant amount of time at their chosen profession.
 
dardusm said:
The same line of thought could be applied to any pro athlete or career minded individual that spends an exorbitant amount of time at their chosen profession.
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No way. Pro athletes make tens of millions of dollars in their career. No comparison to pool whatsoever.
 
JAM said:
No way. Pro athletes make tens of millions of dollars in their career. No comparison to pool whatsoever.
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We can just agree to disagree. Earlier you said that it didn't matter how much money that a player makes because the lifestyle (time away from family) was the mitigating factor. But because you move a decimal point on the amount of money, it makes a difference? No biggie, we both would like to see the game thrive to the point where many pro's can make a decent living not just the top few.
 
dardusm said:
We can just agree to disagree. Earlier you said that it didn't matter how much money that a player makes because the lifestyle (time away from family) was the mitigating factor. But because you move a decimal point on the amount of money, it makes a difference? No biggie, we both would like to see the game thrive to the point where many pro's can make a decent living not just the top few.
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If you were to live the lifestyle of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, two giants in their respective industries, and Shane Van Boening, a giant in his respective industry, the difference would be like night and day.

The pool lifestyle is not conducive to raising a family and having a normal lifestyle.

In case you haven't noticed, most pool players, even when they were once the greatest, die alone and broke. Now, if that's what Shane is hedaing for, I feel bad for him. That's why I'd like to see him get an education or a career -- OUTSIDE OF POOL. Shane Van Boening is a lot of things, but he is not anywhere near the status of Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, sad to say. Today, Shane is on top of the world. Fast forward 30 years, and you may realize how rewarding the pro pool is compared to pro golf and pro basketball.
 
JAM said:
If you were to live the lifestyle of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, two giants in their respective industries, and Shane Van Boening, a giant in his respective industry, the difference would be like night and day.

The pool lifestyle is not conducive to raising a family and having a normal lifestyle.

In case you haven't noticed, most pool players, even when they were once the greatest, die alone and broke. Now, if that's what Shane is hedaing for, I feel bad for him. That's why I'd like to see him get an education or a career -- OUTSIDE OF POOL. Shane Van Boening is a lot of things, but he is not anywhere near the status of Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, sad to say. Today, Shane is on top of the world. Fast forward 30 years, and you may realize how rewarding the pro pool is compared to pro golf and pro basketball.
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Many people die alone and broke, it's just not pool players. I've known people that work hard their entire life and finally get to a point to "enjoy" their hard earned life and poof they're gone. Tomorrow is never a given. Enjoy the ride by doing things that make you happy. I once saw a documentary called Happy a few years ago. The jest of it was it wasn't about wealth but about quality of life. There is lots of truth to it. Find out what makes you happy and do it. Life is too short to live based on others expectations.
 
dardusm said:
Many people die alone and broke, it's just not pool players. I've known people that work hard their entire life and finally get to a point to "enjoy" their hard earned life and poof they're gone. Tomorrow is never a given. Enjoy the ride by doing things that make you happy. I once saw a documentary called Happy a few years ago. The jest of it was it wasn't about wealth but about quality of life. There is lots of truth to it. Find out what makes you happy and do it. Life is too short live based on others expectations.
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Some folks enjoy children, a family, and a future with a spouse. This doesn't happen too often with a pro pool player. Why? Because their lifestyle on the road does not afford it.

It can happen, and there are the exceptions.

The occupational hazards of the pool lifestyle -- prostitution, gambling, and substance abuse -- usually affects most pool players at one time or another.

Sure, it's nice to be happy in the moment, but most people look to have a future with a secure lifestyle, one that is comfortable, surrounded by loved ones. A lifelong pool player usually doesn't end up in a good situation.
 
dardusm said:
Many people die alone and broke, it's just not pool players. I've known people that work hard their entire life and finally get to a point to "enjoy" their hard earned life and poof they're gone. Tomorrow is never a given. Enjoy the ride by doing things that make you happy. I once saw a documentary called Happy a few years ago. The jest of it was it wasn't about wealth but about quality of life. There is lots of truth to it. Find out what makes you happy and do it. Life is too short to live based on others expectations.
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Agree 100%..
 
JAM said:
Some folks enjoy children, a family, and a future with a spouse. This doesn't happen too often with a pro pool player. Why? Because their lifestyle on the road does not afford it.

It can happen, and there are the exceptions.

The occupational hazards of the pool lifestyle -- prostitution, gambling, and substance abuse -- usually affects most pool players at one time or another.

Sure, it's nice to be happy in the moment, but most people look to have a future with a secure lifestyle, one that is comfortable, surrounded by loved ones. A lifelong pool player usually doesn't end up in a good situation.
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Absolutely, If you want a family and that is what is going to make you happy then by all means do it. If security is what you want and is going to make you happy by all means do it. My philosophy is this, if it doesn't hurt anyone and makes you happy knock yourself out.

Prostitution, gambling, and substance abuse is a choice. Not every pool player does those things. Many "family" men with good careers use the services of prostitutes, gamble, and use substances. My dream isn't to have many kids or many grand kids standing around my deathbed. It's to do whatever I deem that makes me happy. This may change but in my life what I have found is the most important commodity besides health is time. Others will view this differently which is cool.
 
dardusm said:
Absolutely, If you want a family and that is what is going to make you happy then by all means do it. If security is what you want and is going to make you happy by all means do it. My philosophy is this, if it doesn't hurt anyone and makes you happy knock yourself out.

Prostitution, gambling, and substance abuse is a choice. Not every pool player does those things. Many "family" men with good careers use the services of prostitutes, gamble, and use substances. My dream isn't to have many kids or many grand kids standing around my deathbed. It's to do whatever I deem that makes me happy. This may change but in my life what I have found is the most important commodity besides health is time. Others will view this differently which is cool.
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I'm going to tell it to you like this. I've met hundreds of pool players in my life, some lifelong pool players. Some were tournament soldiers, and others were full-blown road agents. I don't know any of them who have ended up with a satisfying career or lifestyle, with the exception of two. Two out of hundreds.

So my opinion about Shane getting an education or seeking another career outside of pool while he is still young is based on this. The higher they go, the harder they will fall. How they land is what I am talking about.
 
JAM said:
I'm going to tell it to you like this. I've met hundreds of pool players in my life, some lifelong pool players. Some were tournament soldiers, and others were full-blown road agents. I don't know any of them who have ended up with a satisfying career or lifestyle, with the exception of two. Two out of hundreds.

So my opinion about Shane getting an education or seeking another career outside of pool while he is still young is based on this. The higher they go, the harder they will fall. How they land is what I am talking about.
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Really 2?

I can name several.

Ken
 
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