Sneaky Pete Cues ……

[Coos Cues]

And I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but established cuemakers don't see the return for creating a s/Pete from scratch.

The dollars to hours ratio is no good and the only way they can make it better is to use a blank made by someone else...which now isn't the maker's cue.

Also, he really has no control over the blank's quality. If there are issues after sale, he has to suck it up or admit what he sold as his wasn't actually such.

I had the opportunity recently to talk in person to a cue builder who is way out of my league in what he is doing as far as inlays and fancy rings etc. We discussed how many hours go into our cues and the selling price and demand.

This guy is very mathematically gifted and after calculating the hours/sale price pretty much in his head his advice to me was "if I were you I would keep doing what you're doing".

Ted the used car salesman told me many years ago that there is an ass for every seat. Even though there are scores of small time cue builders world wide the demand for one off cues continues to exceed the supply.

There is a country song by Sawyer Brown that pretty much sums up cues. Some girls don't like boys like me but, some girls do. I have seen some cues built by the very best that clash with my own sensibilities.

I thank god for the variety of woods on this globe making it easy to produce nice looking cues. The playability however is all in the details and that's up to us to refine. Let the wood do the talking and it's tough to go wrong appealing to the whims of man. Unless of course your cues hit like a dog.

 

[measureman]

Whom are you referring to? I'm in Colorado, and I'd be very interested in having him do a conversion for me.

Doug from Loveland.
PM me your phone number and I will pass it along.

 

[alphadog]

Joe Salazar sold quite a few McWorter sneakies. They were good playing cues.
The first deano's were billiard joint style cues by Nimik and they played superb. Friend had a sneaky huebler or Meucci I can't remember which but we played scotch doubles trnmnt and used it as a break cue. It was a great cue. He got the tip replaced about a month after that and asked me to hit a few balls with it. I hit 2 balls and asked him why did they change the shaft taper? He replied you confirmed my suspicion,they stole my shaft and gave me this as a replacement. Went on to say he called about the shaft and the guy said tip is done and damn that is a great shaft. Couple days later went to pick it up and there was a scramble looking for the shaft. Guy says oh I haven't done it yet just wait and and I will. Owner waits and is when is handed the shaft asks is this mine,are you sure? Well he now knows it wasn't and told me hey it wasn't worth hassling the guy as my shaft is gone and I won't get it back.

I was told by a reputable cuemaker the majority of those "name maker" sneakies came from said makers shops but weren't made by them . Workers got to do those as a bonus.

 

[SSDiver2112]

That is a keeper. Yes you can put another one together but that is sharp. If you really need the cash ok otherwise you might be remorseful. Hold onto it.

He is still asking, but I will be keeping it. I love how it looks and plays.

I am super impressed by how clean the cloth is on that table.

My home port dive bar. New cloth and bumpers last October. Owner tries her best to minimize the abuse.

 

[mikemosconi]

The few Schmelke cues I have tried have been hit or miss. A cue made from a Schmelke blank by Joe Callaluca I have is great, but I played with a few Schmelke cues they built and either did not like the hit or the fit and finish on them much. For the price, they are worth the price, I think, but I would not call them a bargain. I would pay 100 or 200 more to get a bit better final result. The quality on paper is good, US made, custom build, lots of options but the quality in your hand is normal for the price, at least from the experience I have with maybe 3 of them, not counting the cue made with their blank. Hope you guys get what I mean, they are not bad cues, but they are also not a super bargain if you look at the details.

I think the last true good bargain there was when Predator had their original sneaky line with a shaft for not much money and the Players HXT (PureX) line when many of them were under $200 including a decent LD shaft and a Kamui Black tip. Right now, I think the PureX Players line is at a "normal" price for what it is since they went up by like %30 - 50%. $200 cue with LD shaft and Kamui tip, bargain, that cue at $250, bit harder to recommend as a bargain. A friend of mine bought this cue for $170 maybe 6 years ago, sold it for $190 used, it's now $275 https://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/players/players_hxt90.htm

A fellow who comes down to Fl each winter is a neighbor of Joe Callaluca- his cues are really nice players! I just received my first Schmelke SP- Bacote and customized to my specs for only $165. I played with it for the first time and it plays very well- however the shaft is badly out of round- huge wobble when rolled- will be looking to return the cue and have the shaft re made- STRAIGHT!

I don't know how a shaft so bad could be let out of any maker's shop when new?

 

[dspaboss]

If I recall correctly, the special runs that Evan undertook at Schon involved decorative designs.

Having said that, I’d like to acknowledge Evan Clarke’s recent passing with a note of reverence
and tremendous regard for his accomplishments and contributions to the craft of cue making.

My original reference to SP cues was entirely linked to having a cue that felt and played the
equivalent of your main playing cues. This way if it was lost, you’d only shed crocodile tears.

Isn't that sort of the logic SouthWest used with their "pacifier" or satin cues? Something to keep buyer's interest level up while waiting for the delivery of their chosen design.

 

[hang-the-9]

A fellow who comes down to Fl each winter is a neighbor of Joe Callaluca- his cues are really nice players! I just received my first Schmelke SP- Bacote and customized to my specs for only $165. I played with it for the first time and it plays very well- however the shaft is badly out of round- huge wobble when rolled- will be looking to return the cue and have the shaft re made- STRAIGHT!

I don't know how a shaft so bad could be let out of any maker's shop when new?

That is pretty much the flaw with Shmelke, it's similar to the cheaper Asian cues, they don't quite take the time to check it all, use less seasoned and quality wood and don't take the extra time some things need. Yes you pay sometimes half or less of what a similar setup is from someplace else, but then more than half the time there are issues with things like shafts not straight, tips not well done, rings/inlays popping or not even, finish looking a bit off, etc... Then you are paying to get it fixed or buying a new shaft, or spending time and shipping cost to get it replaced, or trying to resell the thing as flawed or keeping it as a guest/loaner and just buying the expensive thing you should have in the first place LOL.

 

[hang-the-9]

Isn't that sort of the logic SouthWest used with their "pacifier" or satin cues? Something to keep buyer's interest level up while waiting for the delivery of their chosen design.

Not quite the same idea, Schon sneakies were just a normal model, the pacifier cues from SW were pretty much only to be used as temporary setups. Funny thing I see those satin cues from SW now for sale for a few thousand, they used to be at 1,000 or less before. It's like selling a product demo at full price LOL.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Isn't that sort of the logic SouthWest used with their "pacifier" or satin cues? Something to keep buyer's interest level up while waiting for the delivery of their chosen design.

There were 5-6 tribute type designs Evan made and the run was limited to a dozen of each cue.

Deanoc spearheaded this and the cues all turned out to be beautifully made by Evan. This had
nothing to do with Schon’s Ltd. Series of cues. Dean did the same thing with Bob Owen & Jerry
Rauenzahn. The projects were all fun and some beautiful designs were produced. I’m fortunate
to have participated and miss those type special cue projects. I’d like to see a project for SP cues
made by some noteworthy cue maker and restrict it to limited number of cues. To make it work, I
think the cues need to be under a grand. Something in the $600-800 range seems like it would
attract buyers, or perhaps a little more. I’d limit the number to only 23 cues to coincide with 2023.

Perhaps that’s too many but I suspect 23 cues would sell even if the initial offering was only a dozen.
The cue maker should sign and date every cue. Am I whistling past the graveyard or does this have
any appeal? Even if you wouldn’t want one, in your opinion, is it a worthwhile project to undertake?

If it did have appeal, maybe a cue maker would consider doing this & this project might gain traction.
If this specific post generates a bunch of likes, perhaps some cue maker’s interest could get aroused.

 

[Michael Webb]

What has changed in Sneaky Petes from 20 or 30 years ago?
Easy answer Boys.
Customer expectations!
Fact
Most sneaky pete blanks were house cues or Schmelke or from over seas.
Cambodia made some very nice one's with veneers too.
Did they stay straight?
Hell No!
Do most of them stay straight over time.
NO!
People abuse them repeatedly. Toss them in the trunk.
People want perfect points on them now. 1st class finish.
Not really the normal for a sneaky pete hustler cue.
I remember someone doing some about 10 years ago.
The above stated were the complaints.
The Cue maker said
It's a Sneaky Pete.
They sa!d..... SO!
Cue maker said
A sneaky doesn't play like my cues. I do short spliced points. My Cues have an -A- joint.
They said.... SO
Why not?
Get my points?
I think I have a dozen about 25 years old now. All oversized. All even points.
If I ever decide to finish them,
Will they play like I want them to play and stay straight?
Ohhh. You bet your biscuits!

 

[Rusty in Montana]

My first Sneaky Pete cue was made by a hustler for hustling pool , the first cue that I seen used was for his brother Lance who very well could still be playing with it to this day .

Yes it was made from a Dufferin bar cue and mine is straight enough for me , my newest SP was made by Predator and it works just as well as the one Billy made for me many years ago I won a local 8 ball tournament yesterday using the predator SP .
The one Billy made for me is 6" longer than most so in some bars it's tough to get down on some shots is the only problem with it .

 

[DaveK]

What has changed in Sneaky Petes from 20 or 30 years ago?
Easy answer Boys.
Customer expectations!
Fact
Most sneaky pete blanks were house cues or Schmelke or from over seas.
Cambodia made some very nice one's with veneers too.
Did they stay straight?
Hell No!
Do most of them stay straight over time.
NO!
People abuse them repeatedly. Toss them in the trunk.
People want perfect points on them now. 1st class finish.
<sorry for editing your post>

Speaking only for myself I want examples of the workmanship and also nice pieces of wood. Here is one of my favorites, a Gracio very-near-sneaky (no joint collars but has a small butt section) that unfortunately is a bit light for my playing preferences but I love it. The top points are quite even, but it's the bottom points that make this cue special IMO. The way they are cut in by hand shows me that the man wanted as good a splice as he could make. I also love the perfection of my MT III, Blackcreek, Mark Bear, Omori, & Prather splices, but this one I show folks for the care put into making the splice.

Dave <-- would be interested in a Webb full splice if they get made

 

[jazznpool]

Here’s what I’d do if I were a cue maker. I’d release a limited series of SP cues periodically.
The intermittent timeframe between series of cues released must be relatively long length.

So maybe ever decade but how many years of cue making does one have so that might be
too long. How about every 5 years & not more than 5 series releases. Call it the 55 SP Project.

The first thing that came to mind was make the series only 5 cues but that’s not enough. There
needs to be more than a few but not too many. How about a bakers dozen?….13 cues & 1 cue
from each series is retained by the cue maker so only 12 cues are available for order. The cues
retained out of each series make up a 5 of 5 complete set. Each series needs a identifying mark.

So if the cues sold for $800 - $1000, the cue maker would realize would $10-12k of revenue. If
the cues sold for $700, that’s still $8500. I imagine if Barry Szamboti made the cues, the price
would be a lot higher than what the Scruggs cue sold for. Gosh, there are so many great cue
makers out there that I envision that someone one might shoot for a collection of SP cues by the
biggest names in cue making. Anyway, I think it would be something that would persist for years.

There’s very little to no money in a deluxe crafted Pete cue. Most established makers cannot dedicate the resources to make them as they detract from more financially rewarding cue building or repairing pursuits. In general sneaky petes are made by up and coming guys, hobbiests with access to a shop or cuemakers who are on a lower cuemaking tier. There are exceptions of course. The kind of sneaky pete I prefer has the balance of a good custom cue, reasonably even points and a hand applied lacquer finish (not UV or clear coat). I ordered and owned at least 3 of Tim Scruggs piloted sneakies in late 70s/ early 80’s. Some we’re better than others.

 

[DaveK]

There’s very little to no money in a deluxe crafted Pete cue.

That said I still have and enjoy the PFD-finished Mark Bear blank deluxe crafted Pete that I bought from you many years back. Thanks !

Dave

 

[Bavafongoul]

Martin, I spoke to a cue maker I’ve used before and he essentially said what you explained.
It’s more practical for him to build a players design with simple points & veneers sans inlays.

Sneaky Pete cues tend to interrupt his established routine in his shop for building custom cues.
I’m sure there can’t be much profit realized on a SP cue and so what he explained made sense.

When I was discussing this idea with Jerry Rauenzahn, the approach was to build a genuine SP cue
without any fancy rings, veneers or inlays. The cue would be a road/league cue for prior customers.

The SP cues would be offered only to Jerry’s former clients rather than a brand new customer. It was
a way of showing appreciation for their prior patronage and rewarding them with something different.

I would have been thrilled to own a SP cue made by Jerry Rauenzahn. There aren’t any I’ve ever seen
or even heard existed. The cue would be numbered in a limited production run but It never got off the
ground. Jerry was thinking about retiring at that time and was really busy completing new cue orders.

Matt

 

[chuckg]

All you need , a house cue conversion .mine is a Dufferin made by Busbee Cues

 

[Baron]

I just want to give a big shout out to the Dufferin Phantom

 

[RDeca]

Go hit up the local taverns that have always had pool tables in them ....ask management if they have any old one piece cues In the basement or storage somewhere. You'll be surprised what u might find. Try to buy them. Many will just give them away to get rid of. Cherry pick the good ones. Talk to a cue maker and have them converted into two piece cues. Turn them down a touch because they tend to be fat handled. Derlin butt plate. Cut groove for a Linen wrap if desired. Simple 3/8x10 pin. Slap a few coats of finish on her....and you got a great real sneaky if left wrapless. I have several old house cues of unknown origin and two dufferins. Mid late 70s to late 80s im guessing from the way the laquer yellows has checks and flakes off. (nitro cellulouse??? Anyone know.. reminds me of old guitar finish)... I haven't gotten around to having them done up. They don't look great but they are solid and stayed strait through many years of abuse. The ones i have hit balls with play just as good as anything to be honest. Best part I got them for nothing. A knowledgeable cue maker that's not famous will do one for less than 200$. At least the guys I know....Or just buy a Schmelke.

 

[garczar]

The $80 Chinese SP's that J&J sells are the nuts. #2529: http://www.jjcue.com/jjcues.htm Great full-time cue or perfect 'go to the bar' cue. BTW, speaking of Schmelke my own experience with them was not stellar. I bought a sp back in '16 with two shafts. Both warped in a tad(2-3 mo's tops) over a year. Because it was over a year they basically told me to pound sand. Buy a Players/Action/J&J sp. For 100-120bux you get one nice playing cue. A friend has had a Players for at least 10yrs and its still dead straight.

 

[RDeca]

My first real cue. When I was 10... so that makes it over 30 yrs ago. Cost 40$, dad got it for me. Local guy made it who's passed away now. Used it every single time I played until I was im my early 20s (i played probably at least 5-10 hours a week with it) then I bought my first schon...when i got a real job that payed decent and had some money in my pocket. This cue is Still dead strait. No nicks in the shaft. All I've had to do was a ferrule replacement because used it to break and play with many years.
. Guys say wood doesn't last. But it does if u don't abuse it. Not sure the origin could be dufferin?? and idk what the brown wood is??(anyone know) if u look real close its actually very pretty wood. Just kindof plain grain could be purple heart that isn't purple anymore?