So here's a weird one. Ever see a "lag cue"?

This is meant as light humor, so here goes:

Imagine this, a tour golfer style bag with no more than 14 cues allowed during a match. You can have no more than x amount of cubes of chalk & only one single glove at any time.

You also can't forget the caddy errr "Cueddy"?

His or her, job is to wipe down your cue shafts & grips should they become dirty, sweaty or chalk fouled. Their duties also include cleaning the cue ball before each break, a quick brushing of the table before every break & racking the balls for their player.

However at no time during the match is the "Cueddy" allowed to communicate with their player unless a game has come to an end, or if it is before the break.


back to being serious:

Where does it end? We already have a break cue, a playing cue, a jump cue, a snooker cue etc etc...
What's next for the game, a "lag" cue? A "masse" cue? a cut-shot cue? a power draw cue? A 7ft table cue? A 9ft table cue? And, who knows what else......
Now with the crazy amount of cues you now must own, you have to have 3-5 of each, each with a differing hardness of tips.
I can see the future now, where everyone who walks into a poolhall is carrying what years ago would be called a dealers case.

One things for certain. If this comes to be, the cue and case manufacturers are going to love it.

Dopc.

Well, as a case manufacturer I don't know if I would love it. Already my toughest cases are the ones that people want tailored to their equipment. We are one of the few who takes on the challenges of dedicated equipment cases. I can only see that increasing with a plethora of cues. I doubt that we would make any more cases than we currently do though.

But to the question of where does it end?

I say why does it have to end? What's wrong with having a cue for every type of shot? Let's imagine a game with a 30 second shot clock, the player has 30 seconds to both select his cue and take the shot. Then it's your turn. As long as it is the player manipulating the inanimate object which in turns manipulates the balls and he can shoot in a reasonable time why should anyone care. For me the basic rule is as long as the implement doesn't harm the other equipment and as long as the use of it is not distracting to the other participants, i.e. pretty much the same as using a normal cue, then why care?

Guy wants to pull out a masse cue in the middle of a game to try to make a hero masse shot? Great go for it. Knock yourself out. Make the shot and you deserve it.

Would you play pool if I handed you a cue that was clearly crappy for drawing balls? Imagine if there were only two cues to use and one was good for most shots but the other one was terrible for spinning the ball. Would you even want to play if I handicapped you that way?

I mean all of us here spend time finding cues that feel good to us for general pool but how do you know if that cue is good for certain types of shots. Maybe you REALLY struggle with masse' shots with your cue and you think it's all your fault. What if I hand you my cue and you can make the masse shot you were just failing at? Now with ease. What would you think at that moment?

So my point is that if people want to invent or engineer cues that are cues but which make certain types of shots somewhat easier or more consistent then let them. Why punish that innovation with some quaint notion that it's more macho or more pure to play all shots with one cue? There are few sports where the individual participant is restricted to only ONE implement.

Sure in reactive sports like tennis the player can't switch racquets in the middle of a volley but they can certainly switch in between points and they frequently do.

In pool however there isn't any logical reason to restrict players from using any type of instrument that by itself does not take the shot. If so then we should ban every cue that claims to be more accurate, more powerful, creates more spin etc...
 
But people don't always perform better even if they own the wonder shafts. So what it comes down to is that it's the person who has to pull the trigger.

+1 brother.
A guy asked me why if i liked to play as much as i do, then why dont i get a better cue or a custom. I said "Why ? I play like a bum with the one i have now, getting something expensive isnt going to make me play 1 inch better".
 
One cue per player per match...

Yes.... no...

Can I get a show of hands??

No, because it isn't "fair" if you have the latest greatest "performance" cue, tip, chalk etc... and I don't. Either everyone gets to use what they want or no one does.
 
Not fair to whom??

Gear vendors??? LOL

I am down with everyone having to play with the same cue. Now what cue should that be? How about we go back to maces? I personally hold the belief that you aren't really skilled unless you can run out with a mace. Any clown can run a rack with a tapered and balanced cue, a high grade leather tip and perfectly formulated chalk.

Now a mace?

Mace.png
[/IMG]

billiard-mace-heads.jpg


Don't even think about telling me how good you play if you can't run out with one of these. ;-)
 
I'm looking for someone with 49 years of experience playing pool to teach me some stuff. Sorry, no less than 49 years. Interested applicants, please PM BlackBalled.

Sorry I can't help you. You're too particular.:wink:

But maybe you're right. I learned from playing with & watching an older gentleman that had 50+ years of experience but he would not teach me a thing. I had to 'steal' it all from him.
 
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I can't imagine stroking a 10 oz cue.

Satori,

I've played bar cues that have been around 12 oz. & I like them, but I like my cue around 17.5 oz. as I learned with a 15 & a 17. You can get a great amount of touch & feel with a light cue & you can always add some umph if you have a good stroke.

Beat Regards & Wishes,
Rick
 
Oh god... I can see all of az buying them now and the for sale section full of them with the thread:

"Lags a ton!!!!!"

"The is the best lag cue I have ever owned. I could freeze the cueball to the head rail every time with this cue. For sale $250."
 
There is one thing that is worse than a 10 or 12 oz. lag cue & that is a closed mind.

Please see Dr. Dave's formula's below. Another thing worse than an 11 oz lag cue is a 60 year old rusty brain that has not used those formulas in nearly 40 years.

Anyway, Which do you suppose can be moved faster by a human being, a light weight or a heavy weight?

Why are tennis rackets now made with graphite, fiberglass, etc.? Why are golf clubs now made with lightweight graphite shafts instead of the heavier steel? Why are light weight aluminum bats not used in the Major League & limits have been put on their weight to length ratio in college?

Just some food for thought.

For each individual there will be an optimum weight cue that that individual can move the most quickly at the most acelleration & obtain the most net force. Anything heavier will result in less net force.

Note: The above has been edited due a brain fart by me that has been so graciously pointed out to me & I certainly appreciate the help.
 
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There is one thing that is worse than a 10 or 12 oz. lag cue & that is a closed mind.

As I've said I've played with a bar cue that was about 12 oz. AND I broke with it quite well too.

F= M x A-squared or to the 2nd. power.

Force = Mass(weight) times Acelleration squared.

Increase the mass/weight by two units & it multiplies the effect of the acelleration by a factor of 2.

Increase the acelleration by two units & it multiplies the effect of the weight by 2 squared which is 4, 3 would be 9, 4 would 16, & so on.

So... increasing what in the formula for FORCE would seem to be of more benefit? Increasing the weight? Or increasing the acelleration/speed?

Which do you suppose can be moved faster by a human being a light weight or a heavy weight?

Just some food for thought.

For each individual there will be an optimum weight cue that that individual can move the most quickly at the most acelleration & obtain the most net force. Anything heavier will result in less net force.

Um...

actually it's just F = ma

And mass is not weight. weight is the force of gravity applied to mass
 
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There is one thing that is worse than a 10 or 12 oz. lag cue & that is a closed mind.

As I've said I've played with a bar cue that was about 12 oz. AND I broke with it quite well too.

F= M x A-squared or to the 2nd. power.

Force = Mass(weight) times Acelleration squared.

Increase the mass/weight by two units & it multiplies the effect of the acelleration by a factor of 2.

Increase the acelleration by two units & it multiplies the effect of the weight by 2 squared which is 4, 3 would be 9, 4 would 16, & so on.

So... increasing what in the formula for FORCE would seem to be of more benefit? Increasing the weight? Or increasing the acelleration/speed?
FYI, the formula is: F = m * a
not: F = m * a^2

Maybe you are thinking about kinetic energy: KE = 1/2 * m * v^2

For each individual there will be an optimum weight cue that that individual can move the most quickly at the most acelleration & obtain the most net force. Anything heavier will result in less net force.
What determines CB speed is the "momentum" of the cue (mass * speed). There is an optimal cue weight for each individual. It is not a simple physics question. It also involves physiology. For more info, see the optimal cue weight resource page.

Regards,
Dave
 
Um...

actually it's just F = ma

And mass is not weight. weight is the force of gravity applied to mass

Sorry my bad. Velocity vs Acelleration.

I know mass vs weight, but I can see how you would not be sure given my brain fart blunder.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
In a more practical sense this discussion was about a "Lag" cue.

So why would I want to increase the force for such a cue?

Now a break cue on the other hand is a whole other matter.

Neil's comment hit the nail on the head IMHO. What ever the weight of your cue, you have to learn to control your stroke to achieve the result you want.

You cannot lag well with a 19 oz cue......work on the skill before you buy a special lag cue that "hits a ton" (Thanks to Icon for his post)




There is one thing that is worse than a 10 or 12 oz. lag cue & that is a closed mind.

As I've said I've played with a few bar cues that were about 12 oz. AND I broke with them quite well too.

F= M x A-squared or to the 2nd. power.

Force = Mass(weight) times Acelleration squared.

Increase the mass/weight by two units & it multiplies the effect of the acelleration by a factor of 2.

Increase the acelleration by two units & it multiplies the effect of the weight by 2 squared which is 4, 3 would be 9, 4 would be 16, & so on.

So... increasing what in the formula for FORCE would seem to be of more benefit? Increasing the weight? Or increasing the acelleration/speed?

Which do you suppose can be moved faster by a human being, a light weight or a heavy weight?

Why are tennis rackets now made with graphite, fiberglass, etc.? Why are golf clubs now made with lightweight graphite shafts instead of the heavier steel? Why are light weight aluminum bats not used in the Major League & limits have been put on their weight to length ratio in college?

Just some food for thought.

For each individual there will be an optimum weight cue that that individual can move the most quickly at the most acelleration & obtain the most net force. Anything heavier will result in less net force.
 
Was reading a one pocket book a while ago, "Upscale One Pocket", and the author said
serious 1p players should consider getting a dedicated lag cue. He's a very scientific guy
and points out a lot of interesting subtleties in a game (like how the break plays differently
on a bar box for example).

I believe he said the ideal lag cue would have a large diameter, flat tip, and be very light...
like 10 ounces. Because apparently light cue = easier to control the speed.

Has anyone seen or heard of such a thing outside of this book?
I can't think of any benefit of using a much lighter cue for lagging; although, varying the tip position can have a real effect. For more info, see the lag shot resource page.

Now, if the cue were even lighter (say 3 oz), it would be very useful for avoiding double hits when there is a small gap between the CB and OB (when a straight hit is required). If the cue is lighter than the CB, the cue would bounce back from the CB (although, you would still need to be careful to limit follow through which would counter this effect). Luckily, there are other effective methods for avoiding double hits (per the videos at the bottom of the double hit resource page).

Regards,
Dave
 
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