So how do you improve cue ball control?

[Island Drive]

Reading the "hopefully the last aiming system" thread last night I was thinking about how correct it is that cue ball control is the ingredient that separates the different classes of players. Cue ball control of course equals tight safety play also. So what "systems" are out there to improve this critical aspect of play dramatically? Once you get to the point where you really aren't missing any routine shots then this is where the effort needs to be spent, IMO. But we all know you can practice incorrectly until you're blue in the face with bad results. Or continue to do the same things that aren't working well. If the only consideration is controlling the cue ball, what resources are the best to help with this? Other than the obvious trial and error and hours spent practicing. Which books, DVD's etc. that a person can acquire and take home are best for cue ball specific improvement? Which are a waste of time and money? Sorry if this has been beat to death here already, I have trouble finding some search results.

JC

After 4 glasses of wine, and seeing your tiltle thread, all I can say is, make sure you swing straight, stay in the middle of whitey, and work the cue ball with speed to create your cut angles.....

 

[randyg]

I did employ a professional instructor last year and had to travel a long ways from here to do it. My game has come up a substantial amount since then which is what has me re energized about the game. I wanted to make a push while still young enough to improve my play. There's no one local that instructs or plays better than I do. I have been playing for over thirty years but studying the game for just the last few. I would love to have top notch instruction often but the reality is even though I can easily afford what the instructors themselves charge, the necessary travel away from my family plus lost earnings being self employed make it extremely expensive both financially and personally.

Dr. Dave: I do have your video encyclopedia and view them often. They're awesome. I usually get side tracked going downstairs to practice stuff. I realized while watching them why pool players have a hard time helping each other out. No one knows what the other guys already knows or doesn't making it hard to know how to help. When I first watched the set it was like "I know that", "I know that", "I know that", "Oh but I didn't know that". And it might be something so basic it's just assumed that you already know it by your pool peers. And if your beating them it would never occur to them you don't know some very fundamental things that they could tell you.

JC

Here's your chance. Scott Lee is in your area right now. Email him and he will visit you.
randyg

 

[mohrt]

Actually, it only adds to something close to 60 degrees over a limited range of angles. For example, if you come in for a very thin cut, the sum is 90 degrees and if you have a nearly straight shot, the sum is also 90 degrees.

Also, for the other angles, 60 is close but not exact, since the actual angle (as you have defined it) varies from 55 or so to 90 on each end in a smooth fashion. There are only two cut angles for which it is supposed to exactly equal 60, and that depends on the table.

There is a simpler system that predicts the angle out for all of the angles in and can easily be adjusted for differences in the cushion. One case from that system was shown in Ralph Eckert's instructional video that was recently posted, which showed 4:1 in diamond ratios (or 45 degrees to about 15 degrees)

link to that?

[edit] I may have found it.

 

[The Renfro]

Youtube search Ralf Eckert reference lines.......

 

[alstl]

Reading the "hopefully the last aiming system" thread last night I was thinking about how correct it is that cue ball control is the ingredient that separates the different classes of players. Cue ball control of course equals tight safety play also. So what "systems" are out there to improve this critical aspect of play dramatically? Once you get to the point where you really aren't missing any routine shots then this is where the effort needs to be spent, IMO. But we all know you can practice incorrectly until you're blue in the face with bad results. Or continue to do the same things that aren't working well. If the only consideration is controlling the cue ball, what resources are the best to help with this? Other than the obvious trial and error and hours spent practicing. Which books, DVD's etc. that a person can acquire and take home are best for cue ball specific improvement? Which are a waste of time and money? Sorry if this has been beat to death here already, I have trouble finding some search results.

JC

Plus two is a valuable system for both kicking and cue ball control. Bob Jewett and Dr Dave have good videos explaining it. Ray Martin's 99 critical shots pages 60 to 66, especially 62 and 63 is, for lack of a better term, critical knowledge.

 

[mohrt]

Youtube search Ralf Eckert reference lines.......

I watched the reference lines videos 1,2,3... I didn't see the 4:1 diamond system Bob was referring to?

[edit] ok, there was a 4:1 shot with 45 in, 15 out. So how does that translate to:

predicts the angle out for all of the angles in and can easily be adjusted for differences in the cushion

?

 

[Bob Jewett]

I watched the reference lines videos 1,2,3... I didn't see the 4:1 diamond system Bob was referring to?

[edit] ok, there was a 4:1 shot with 45 in, 15 out. So how does that translate to: ?

If you look at the shots down the long cushion, if the cue stick is angled so that it points to a spot on the far cushion 4 diamonds down from where it passes over the near cushion, then it is a 45-degree cut. For such a cut, the cue ball will advance down the table 1 diamond in coming back across. (This is for no side spin, a rolling cue ball, and the object ball shot straight along the rail.) That is a 4:1 ratio of diamonds, and no angle is directly involved. On some tables, if the cue ball is only 3 diamonds "above" the object ball, it will advance 1 diamond down the table on the trip back across. I think this is true for tables with slippery (new) cloth.

Now, suppose you are (the cue ball origin is) six diamonds above the object ball. It will travel 1.5 diamonds down the table on the return journey (or 2 diamonds on a table that is playing "3-ish").

There is no constancy of angle in this -- it is constancy of something else which happens to be the ratio of the tangents of the inbound and outbound angles. It just happens that for shots where the object ball travels along the cushion, you can simply look at the diamonds to get the tangents or at least the ratio of the tangents.

I described in a column several years ago how to measure the "factor" of 3 or 4 or so on your own table. Once you have that factor, you can calculate the return path for most shots with a no-english rolling cue ball and a cut down the rail. With some simple additional geometry, you can apply it to fuller shots as well even though the cue stick might not be passing over the nearer side cushion.

Here's that column: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-03.pdf

(I should point out that when measuring both the distances down the table, you need to use the same "diamond counting" method. The two methods are "through" and "opposite." Knowing what each of those means is basic to using the diamonds accurately.)

 

[mohrt]

If you look at the shots down the long cushion, if the cue stick is angled so that it points to a spot on the far cushion 4 diamonds down from where it passes over the near cushion, then it is a 45-degree cut. For such a cut, the cue ball will advance down the table 1 diamond in coming back across. (This is for no side spin, a rolling cue ball, and the object ball shot straight along the rail.) That is a 4:1 ratio of diamonds, and no angle is directly involved. On some tables, if the cue ball is only 3 diamonds "above" the object ball, it will advance 1 diamond down the table on the trip back across. I think this is true for tables with slippery (new) cloth.

Now, suppose you are (the cue ball origin is) six diamonds above the object ball. It will travel 1.5 diamonds down the table on the return journey (or 2 diamonds on a table that is playing "3-ish").

There is no constancy of angle in this -- it is constancy of something else which happens to be the ratio of the tangents of the inbound and outbound angles. It just happens that for shots where the object ball travels along the cushion, you can simply look at the diamonds to get the tangents or at least the ratio of the tangents.

I described in a column several years ago how to measure the "factor" of 3 or 4 or so on your own table. Once you have that factor, you can calculate the return path for most shots with a no-english rolling cue ball and a cut down the rail. With some simple additional geometry, you can apply it to fuller shots as well even though the cue stick might not be passing over the nearer side cushion.

Here's that column: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-03.pdf

(I should point out that when measuring both the distances down the table, you need to use the same "diamond counting" method. The two methods are "through" and "opposite." Knowing what each of those means is basic to using the diamonds accurately.)

I read the article, interesting stuff. I see how you can use diamonds down the long rail to get an idea how the ball will come off the shot, but I guess it is not clear how this translates to other shots like those along the end rail, and how it is easier than the 60 degree rule system.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I read the article, interesting stuff. I see how you can use diamonds down the long rail to get an idea how the ball will come off the shot, but I guess it is not clear how this translates to other shots like those along the end rail, and how it is easier than the 60 degree rule system.

Think of the shot in terms of slope rather than angle. The geometry is the same for shots along the short rail. A 45-degree cut comes in at a slope of 1:1, and the outbound cue ball returns at a slope of 1:4 (relative to straight off the cushion). In the long direction, the ball will go down the table 8 diamonds so it goes forward 2 diamonds (1:4 slope).

On some shots you may not have a full table width to measure the diamonds, so you will need to do the slope calculation some other way. Two diamonds over and two diamonds down is still a slope of 1:1. If you are shooting from the side pocket at an object ball in the middle of the end rail, the incoming slope is 2:4 (neglecting the size of the balls) or 1:2, so the outbound path has a slope of 1:8. That means that the cue ball should hit on the second end rail 1 diamond from the center.

My main issues with the 60-degree rule are that it is not very accurate, it has no obvious way to adjust, and it is totally broken at the extremes. And for me, it is much easier to do the slope thing than to remember which two angles make up the 60 degrees.