So I weighed my set of Aramith Pro Cups against the Cyclop Balls...

[RBC]

We had a booth at this event, with a pool table and the Cyclop balls on it.

This was actually the third time I've used them. First was last year at the BCA trad show, Second was this year at the BCA trade show, and now the third at this tournament.

To me the balls are harder. They cut much more "clean" to me. I love the way they play.

I don't recall seeing any skids at all. Not at any of the events where we've used them.

I don't believe that balls cause skids. Skids, at least to me, are occasional instances of really high friction between the object ball and the cue ball. The only thing I can see causing this is something between the balls. If it were the composition of the balls themselves, then they would have that high friction all the time. It's not a skid if it happens all the time, only when it's unexpected.

For me personally, I like the balls. I'm not to wild about the colors, but I understand why they want their set to look different than their competition.

 

[lfigueroa]

Given what the rep said, if they have a higher COR & are 'bouncier' then when 'whatever' makes them cling, which is being in contact for longer than normal, that gives the ball more contact time to build up the COR & rebound off in the new direction with a bit more velocity.

The part of your rational that I am having trouble with is the "being in contact for longer than normal" part. How do you know this? IIRC, the collision between balls during a shot takes 1/5000 of a second. I don't recall anyone saying that during a skid the contact time increased. What increases is the friction/throw.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

We had a booth at this event, with a pool table and the Cyclop balls on it.

This was actually the third time I've used them. First was last year at the BCA trad show, Second was this year at the BCA trade show, and now the third at this tournament.

To me the balls are harder. They cut much more "clean" to me. I love the way they play.

I don't recall seeing any skids at all. Not at any of the events where we've used them.

I don't believe that balls cause skids. Skids, at least to me, are occasional instances of really high friction between the object ball and the cue ball. The only thing I can see causing this is something between the balls. If it were the composition of the balls themselves, then they would have that high friction all the time. It's not a skid if it happens all the time, only when it's unexpected.

For me personally, I like the balls. I'm not to wild about the colors, but I understand why they want their set to look different than their competition.

As a player you definitely have to make a minor adjustment cutting balls with this set of balls. I also agree that the skids are not because of the new balls. Maybe (probably) the used measles balls and some guys using Kamui chalk.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Fatboy]

i played a 4 hours session of $200-$300/rack one hole 2 days ago with cyclop balls, not one skid, table was wet tho. went to play yesterday and the guy wouldnt play with the cyclop balls, so f'em i walked out. We had no problems with them, he had a mental problem cause he is mental, but thats not my problem. i didnt want to play with worn out balls (which he is used to). We broke even with the cyclop balls and he wouldnt play again, LOL

but not a funny roll, skid, slide, hop nothing in about 4 hours.

and again in Vegas I can see why they are brutal, they will never work good in super dry conditions. I wouldnt play with them there. i do like them on wet tables. tho

 

[Fatboy]

To me the balls are harder. They cut much more "clean" to me. I love the way they play.

I don't recall seeing any skids at all. Not at any of the events where we've used them.

I don't believe that balls cause skids. Skids, at least to me, are occasional instances of really high friction between the object ball and the cue ball. The only thing I can see causing this is something between the balls. If it were the composition of the balls themselves, then they would have that high friction all the time. It's not a skid if it happens all the time, only when it's unexpected.

For me personally, I like the balls. I'm not to wild about the colors, but I understand why they want their set to look different than their competition.

i agree they cut cleaner, what ever than means-its true. I felt the same way about that.


its the cloth, all the fast cloth(s) in Vegas is the cause of skids, and with these balls on slick cloth, forget it. no good. the real solution is throw away all the fast cloth and go back to "real Cloth" thee problem solved for all balls in dry or wet conditions.

 

[lfigueroa]

i played a 4 hours session of $200-$300/rack one hole 2 days ago with cyclop balls, not one skid, table was wet tho. went to play yesterday and the guy wouldnt play with the cyclop balls, so f'em i walked out. We had no problems with them, he had a mental problem cause he is mental, but thats not my problem. i didnt want to play with worn out balls (which he is used to). We broke even with the cyclop balls and he wouldnt play again, LOL

but not a funny roll, skid, slide, hop nothing in about 4 hours.

and again in Vegas I can see why they are brutal, they will never work good in super dry conditions. I wouldnt play with them there. i do like them on wet tables. tho

I have been playing with a set of Cyclop balls at my home room, with my personal measles ball that has never been hit with a phenolic tip, and using regular old Masters chalk, and I am seeing no skids.

Lou Figueroa

 

[ENGLISH!]

The part of your rational that I am having trouble with is the "being in contact for longer than normal" part. How do you know this? IIRC, the collision between balls during a shot takes 1/5000 of a second. I don't recall anyone saying that during a skid the contact time increased. What increases is the friction/throw.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

Go to Dr. Dave's site & search 'cling'. Cling is anything that causes the balls to 'stick' together & stay together longer than what would be normal, like chalk dust between the contact point.

When they are clung together they move together a bit longer down the cue stick/cue ball line before they separate. It is like an increased amount of CIT.

Best,
Rick

PS For me, one of the only times that I really have noticed skid is when I am shooting a shot where the CB, OB, and pocket are with in 2 diamonds of each other & I am hitting the CB with high inside english at a slow rolling type speed. It is like the CIT & the bit of SIT add together & the balls stick & the OB 'skids' or is pushed off of the tangent line more than it would have been if hit harder.

 

[Fatboy]

I have been playing with a set of Cyclop balls at my home room, with my personal measles ball that has never been hit with a phenolic tip, and using regular old Masters chalk, and I am seeing no skids.

Lou Figueroa

I bet it isnt dry as Vegas. they are good balls so far. i like them-even the goofy colors are ok with me

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Go to Dr. Dave's site & search 'cling'. Cling is anything that causes the balls to 'stick' together & stay together longer than what would be normal, like chalk dust between the contact point.

When they are clung together they move together a bit longer down the cue stick/cue ball line before they separate. It is like an increased amount of CIT.

Best,
Rick

PS For me, one of the only times that I really have noticed skid is when I am shooting a shot where the CB, OB, and pocket are with in 2 diamonds of each other & I am hitting the CB with high inside english at a slow rolling type speed. It is like the CIT & the bit of SIT add together & the balls stick & the OB 'skids' or is pushed off of the tangent line more than it would have been if hit harder.

I have read what Dave has to say on skid on his site and what Bob said in his BD article. I must have missed where either say anything about a longer contact time. Could you please give me a reference.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bigtruck]

I have read what Dave has to say on skid on his site and what Bob said in his BD article. I must have missed where either say anything about a longer contact time. Could you please give me a reference.

Lou Figueroa

Seems to me that skid can occur not only between the object ball and the cue ball, but also between the felt and the cue ball or object ball.

Ray

 

[JB Cases]

As a player you definitely have to make a minor adjustment cutting balls with this set of balls. I also agree that the skids are not because of the new balls. Maybe (probably) the used measles balls and some guys using Kamui chalk.

Lou Figueroa

Although, as a player, Shane Van Boeing disagrees with you.

I would be willing to bet, even though I have never used these balls that we can set them up with reinforcers to mark positions and the balls will act just like any other pool balls within a super tight margin. In other words I will go out on a limb and say that you do NOT have to adjust your game or your aim to use these balls.

If anyone wants to bet $20 a shot and suggest 10 cut shots I will endeavor to get a set and film the test.

 

[lfigueroa]

Seems to me that skid can occur not only between the object ball and the cue ball, but also between the felt and the cue ball or object ball.

Ray

Any logic or science on this would be appreciated.
So, your reasoning for this would be....

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Although, as a player, Shane Van Boeing disagrees with you.

I would be willing to bet, even though I have never used these balls that we can set them up with reinforcers to mark positions and the balls will act just like any other pool balls within a super tight margin. In other words I will go out on a limb and say that you do NOT have to adjust your game or your aim to use these balls.

If anyone wants to bet $20 a shot and suggest 10 cut shots I will endeavor to get a set and film the test.

What did SVB say that was in specific disagreement?

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

What did SVB say that was in specific disagreement?

Lou Figueroa

He said it's not the balls. Just play.

 

[Rick S.]

hmmm

Knowing the weight is nice, but what material is it?

I saw more balls skid in my 11 days in Vegas than I've seen in 2 years in my home town pool hall. So...something is different...

Pockets...?

I'm assuming it is....I played 6 sets of race to 7 yesterday on table 2. I had at least a minimum of 4 skids playing. It was bad.... I tried cleaning the cue ball...didn't seem to help.

During the BCA tournament I watched a minimum of 12 hrs of pool a day for 8 days...and only remember a couple of skids from that entire time.

I can't help but think the high humidity has something to do w/skids. We don't seem to have this problem in the 'normal' dry air here. (or Vegas)

 

[firemankc]

How do you guys think that Cyclop balls would compare with the new Aramith Tournament Duramith ball set? The Tournament set is supposed to be Aramith's new flagship product. I've been using them for over a year and I feel like they are indeed a quality product. My friend who is a billiard nut had his machinist brother craft him a custom ball calibration tool which we used to determine that my old Super Pro set had become out of tolerance over time. New out of the pack, each of these duramith balls were in spec each time. We did not weigh any of the balls though.

Just weighed my Aramith Tournament Duramith set.

1 thru 9 weighed 169 grams
10 thru 15 weighed 170 grams
Ball 11 weighed 171 grams
Blk Aramith Cue weighed 169 grams
Red Circle cueball 168 grams and another 167 grams
Blue Circle cue ball 167 grams

Balls were taken out of Diamond Ball Cleaner and weighed (except Blue Circle)

 

[jtompilot]

Just weighed my Aramith Tournament Duramith set.

1 thru 9 weighed 169 grams
10 thru 15 weighed 170 grams
Ball 11 weighed 171 grams
Blk Aramith Cue weighed 169 grams
Red Circle cueball 168 grams and another 167 grams
Blue Circle cue ball 167 grams

Balls were taken out of Diamond Ball Cleaner and weighed (except Blue Circle)

Just weighed my 12 year old Centennial balls.
Balls 1,2,4,7,13,15 weighed 167 grams
The blue circle and the remaining balls were 168 grams

My 4 year old Super Aramith Pro balls
Balls 4,6,15 weighed 169 grams
Measle CB and remaining balls 168 grams

 

[lfigueroa]

He said it's not the balls. Just play.

How is that in disagreement with what I said?

I'm pretty sure that even you would concede SVB adjusts to different CBs, clothes, rails, and other playing conditions, which is what I'm saying: that you need to adjust.

You are getting weirder and weirder, John. Cut back on the ginseng.

Lou Figueroa

 

[ENGLISH!]

I have read what Dave has to say on skid on his site and what Bob said in his BD article. I must have missed where either say anything about a longer contact time. Could you please give me a reference.

Lou Figueroa

"Skid" (AKA "cling" or "kick") is excessive throw caused by increased friction between the CB and object at the point of contact. Much more info on this topic, including causes and demonstrations, can be found on the "cling/skid/kick" resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

Lou,

I re-read Dr. Dave's explanation of Skid & to be honest I do not understand the logic to say that the balls do not stay together ANY longer.

To me when there is an increase in friction & all other parameters being exactly equal I would certainly think that the objects would stick/stay together longer.

Take a sanding block in your hand & hit a an ice block with it & then hit a sheet of sand paper with it at the same force & speed. As I see it the block would stick together longer on the sand paper than it would stick to the ice.

Where the balls are concern any extra time together would be very small but to my thinking I can't see the time being the same given an increase of friction. Yes the ob can move & is not fixed but there is resistance.

If you wet the contact point the CB slips & does not lose as much of its speed/energy but if you put chalk or clue on the contact point the CB will lose more of it's speed/energy. That has to go somewhere.

Perhaps I am wrong & am missing something or not taking something into consideration.

Anyway my mental picture of them stinking together that very slight bit longer & moving down the cue stick/cue ball line & what I need to do to try to avoid it works for me.

Regards & Best Wishes,

 

[lfigueroa]

"Skid" (AKA "cling" or "kick") is excessive throw caused by increased friction between the CB and object at the point of contact. Much more info on this topic, including causes and demonstrations, can be found on the "cling/skid/kick" resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

Lou,

I re-read Dr. Dave's explanation of Skid & to be honest I do not understand the logic to say that the balls do not stay together ANY longer.

To me when there is an increase in friction & all other parameters being exactly equal I would certainly think that the objects would stick/stay together longer.

Take a sanding block in your hand & hit a an ice block with it & then hit a sheet of sand paper with it at the same force & speed. As I see it the block would stick together longer on the sand paper than it would stick to the ice.

Where the balls are concern any extra time together would be very small but to my thinking I can't see the time being the same given an increase of friction. Yes the ob can move & is not fixed but there is resistance.

If you wet the contact point the CB slips & does not lose as much of its speed/energy but if you put chalk or clue on the contact point the CB will lose more of it's speed/energy. That has to go somewhere.

Perhaps I am wrong & am missing something or not taking something into consideration.

Anyway my mental picture of them stinking together that very slight bit longer & moving down the cue stick/cue ball line & what I need to do to try to avoid it works for me.

Regards & Best Wishes,

Sooooooo, you're just making a guess.

And that's fine. I would like to hear from a science guy: is the contact time longer on a skid and does that change sumthin'?

Lou Figueroa