Someone explain Black Boar prices to me.

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
I am curious. How the hell did these cues get where they are. The catalog cues I have seen are pretty pedestrian. Nothing revolutionary there. The "New" cues ,which if what has been posted here is correct, go from around $8K to $25K+ and while interesting seem wildly overpriced.

I can see that for a legend like Bushka or Boti maybe even a Gina. But when did Tony Scianella (sp) become a living legend on par with these guys? I am not knocking Tony at all I think he makes a quality cue. I also think he has the best marketing of any cuemaker ever.

I am genuinely curious. I have fooled with custom cues on and off for about 10 years. I remember when Black Boar was just another cue. Now they are magic. What happened? Is it just a case of tapping into the "Mine is bigger than yours" demographic?
 
They're pretty popular in my neck of the woods. Many a local plays with a Black Board and would never leave home without it. :D

One local player actually has been collecting Black Boar cues, paying $10,000 on up apiece, stating that he felt it was a good investment, as the prices have risen in the past decade, making him think the Black Boar is a good value, even at today's prices! :p

JAM
 
When you look at how the cues are made + assembled and the incredible attention to detail, quality of materials and engineering that goes into these cues, coupled with how well they hold up over time and how well they play- to me it is no suprise that Tonys cues have risen in value, I believe they are all diamonds in the rough. The website I created shows, in great detail how these cues are made and tells of some of his engineering and balancing. His older cues have pretty much doubled in value and some of the newer cues have tripled and even quadrupled in value. Cues basicly fall into 3 catagories
4pt, 6pt and 8pt - the reason for this is because of the level of detail, quality and engineering grew over the years as Tony was making cues.
This is also indicitive by the number of cues he is able to build in a year.

My best observations in the values of BB cues is basicly:
4pt=$2,500+
6pt=$4,000+
8pt=$7,000+ for older 8 pointers
8pt=$14,000+ for the newer 8 pointers

These values are not just my interpretation, but High end cue collectors all over the world are realizing how rare his cues are since I posted the actual quanities of cues he made over the years.

Thanks
Craig
 
JCIN said:
I am curious. How the hell did these cues get where they are. The catalog cues I have seen are pretty pedestrian. Nothing revolutionary there. The "New" cues ,which if what has been posted here is correct, go from around $8K to $25K+ and while interesting seem wildly overpriced.

I can see that for a legend like Bushka or Boti maybe even a Gina. But when did Tony Scianella (sp) become a living legend on par with these guys? I am not knocking Tony at all I think he makes a quality cue. I also think he has the best marketing of any cuemaker ever.

I am genuinely curious. I have fooled with custom cues on and off for about 10 years. I remember when Black Boar was just another cue. Now they are magic. What happened? Is it just a case of tapping into the "Mine is bigger than yours" demographic?

He makes a great cue but IMO the prices that people are asking for these cues are BS. I have played with 2 BB's and they were quality cues and played well but they aren't that much better than many other cues on the market. In fact, I preferred the feel and playability of quite a few other cues I have played with. The cues are nice and Tony is a very knowledgeable craftsman but there is no reason that these cues should bring the current prices that they are being demanded.
 
I also dont understand the prices that these BB's are demanding...I have never played with one, so i am not familiar with the playability. I have only seen them here on AZ; the workmanship is clearly impeccable. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
-West
 
Somebody or a lot somebodies are buying these cues and are willing to shell out the asking price(s) or close to it. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to set the starting prices so high.
 
It seems to me that there are many mid/upper level cue makers right now that could make the same jump as the BB's. They just seem to be the hot ticket right now, and it looks like they will hold up price wise for the long term.

I would love to have one in my collection, but for the prices they are bringing, I could get some serious firewood!!

Russ.....
 
Ktown D said:
He makes a great cue but IMO the prices that people are asking for these cues are BS. I have played with 2 BB's and they were quality cues and played well but they aren't that much better than many other cues on the market. In fact, I preferred the feel and playability of quite a few other cues I have played with. The cues are nice and Tony is a very knowledgeable craftsman but there is no reason that these cues should bring the current prices that they are being demanded.


Nobody is being forced to pay for these expensive cues, there is a list of high end cue collectors waiting to pay for just one of his newer cues. The market/buyers have set the value for his cues, they are instantly worth more after they leave his shop ( he charges less than what the market bears right now)

Bottom line is - if you think it's BS that people are paying so much for these cues, then don't buy one.
 
Tony is a real craftsman and one of my favorite cue makers and i think most of the newer cues he's made over the last 7 years or so have earned the escalated high prices but the early works imo shouldn't be in the same boat. the more plain cues i would group with these as well and would think shouldn't be bonanza priced either. but then again a cue is worth what someone is willing to pay so i guess only time will eventually be able to let all of us know the verdict of their pricing.
 
JAM said:
They're pretty popular in my neck of the woods. Many a local plays with a Black Board and would never leave home without it. :D

One local player actually has been collecting Black Boar cues, paying $10,000 on up apiece, stating that he felt it was a good investment, as the prices have risen in the past decade, making him think the Black Boar is a good value, even at today's prices! :p

JAM
It is the same out my way at First Break where one of the owners and some friends pretty much bought a few. The cues were going for 5 digits two years ago prior to the spike now I wonder what they may go for now. It is because of their cues that I searched and found a 6-pointer. It plays exceptionally well and I am more confident with the BB over any of my other cues. I would be searching for an additional BB but the search is growing increasingly more difficult each day.

Myron
 
JCIN said:
I am curious. How the hell did these cues get where they are. The catalog cues I have seen are pretty pedestrian. Nothing revolutionary there. The "New" cues ,which if what has been posted here is correct, go from around $8K to $25K+ and while interesting seem wildly overpriced.

I can see that for a legend like Bushka or Boti maybe even a Gina. But when did Tony Scianella (sp) become a living legend on par with these guys? I am not knocking Tony at all I think he makes a quality cue. I also think he has the best marketing of any cuemaker ever.

I am genuinely curious. I have fooled with custom cues on and off for about 10 years. I remember when Black Boar was just another cue. Now they are magic. What happened? Is it just a case of tapping into the "Mine is bigger than yours" demographic?

Impeccable work, right market, low supply, high demand. Tony doesn't "market" the cues, they have acquired the reputation they have through the work itself.

As to the question of playability; They do have a fantastic hit but we all know hit is quite subjective. The hit to me is similar to a Joss, Scruggs, Runde-Shon, Jensen, Gilbert type. Bustamante won his first pro event using a Black Boar that was loaned to him by Dieter Eisele, a cue dealer in Germany. According to Dieter, Bustamante was almost in tears when he acquired the Bear Cues (Made by Falcon) sponsorship and had to give back the Black Boar.

Tony's work is what has earned him the place that his cues occupy. I am quite sure that while George Balabushka was alive there were many many many folks who didn't think his cues were any better than a McDermott, Meucci, Palmer and so on.

And it's true, from a purely tactile expression and surface inspection, there isn't much difference in cues to the layperson. To the connoisseur and the scientist the differences between the low to mid range and the very high end are quite discernible and measurable.

I one spent an evening with Joey Gold at his shop. I have always liked Cogs and owned several. I had made a comment once that any competent manufacturer ought to be able to make a Cog down to the last silver inlay. And they should be able to - BUT not without Joey to show them the way.

Because it's the process that Joey Gold has developed that makes his cues feel and play the way they do. That process is incredibly hard to reverse engineer simply by inspecting the finished product or even by cutting it up. Joey does things for reasons of his own that aren't obvious but they work. The end result is a 57" inch combination of materials that taper from approximately 1.25" to ca. .5" and joins in the middle. Not much different than any $50 cue you can buy in most stores when laid side by side.

The difference however is what went into that 57" to bring it to life. That is what makes his and Tony's work worth so much to those who understand it. To those that don't they will simply remain overpriced pieces of wood and plastic. But the very moment that any person begins to explain and justify the price of one cue over another, be it the difference between a K-Mart special and a Viking, or a Schon and a MCdermott, then they have just defined why a Black Boar can be worth $25,000 to someone else.
 
Ok...everyone's entitled to their opinion...

Heck, me personally, if I remember the cuemakers name...I think it's Tibbits? His stuff starts on Bill Schick's level, at $3000...HUH? I mean, yeah, he has a waiting list, because he doesn't make many cues (less than 20 a year if I remember correctly...), but really does that make HIS stuff worth it?

Spoke to the guy and everthing, and he was really nice to speak with. But you're wondering why a Black Boar is commanding high prices!?!?! Ok, for what it's worth, I'm still a cue collector in training (since 2000 as a matter of fact...) so I still new at this. But if you've ever seen some of Tony's very intricate work, you just might change you're mind. Plus, the hit isn't too shabby either.;)

His cues are the ONLY cues (well except for one particular cuemaker...) that I'd hit with a stainless steel joint. (Note: FYI: I really, really, really don't like stainless steel joints...:mad: ) Now, IMHO, one of the reasons for this, is Lucky (www.ilovecues.com). For some reason, when cuemakers get with him, prices can go through the roof! Plus, Tony is contracted with Lucky as well, not sure if he still is, but I know that at one time he was.

I've hit with one of his first non-stamped cues, as well as some modern players, and they really played well. All I know is, if you have issues with the prices of his cues, man...you should see Dave Barenbrugge's stuff. Best ringwork on the planet! :p:D
 
For that kind of money, they had better be laced with gold and diamonds, and some how enable me to make 50% more balls, otherwise I will just stick with a reasonably priced cue designed to play with. Just my opinion.
 
JCIN said:
I am curious. How the hell did these cues get where they are. The catalog cues I have seen are pretty pedestrian. Nothing revolutionary there. The "New" cues ,which if what has been posted here is correct, go from around $8K to $25K+ and while interesting seem wildly overpriced.

I can see that for a legend like Bushka or Boti maybe even a Gina. But when did Tony Scianella (sp) become a living legend on par with these guys? I am not knocking Tony at all I think he makes a quality cue. I also think he has the best marketing of any cuemaker ever.

I am genuinely curious. I have fooled with custom cues on and off for about 10 years. I remember when Black Boar was just another cue. Now they are magic. What happened? Is it just a case of tapping into the "Mine is bigger than yours" demographic?

To see an automotive equivalent? Google "Porsche"...perhaps not a true comparison... Porsche is selling based on past glory... Perhaps black boar still makes the best cues?
 
After taking a quick peek at the website link provided I must say that without a doubt these are the most beautiful cues I have ever seen. The designs are refreshing and dynamic compared to others I have seen. But no way I will ever own one at those prices.

Gary
 
mantis99 said:
For that kind of money, they had better be laced with gold and diamonds, and some how enable me to make 50% more balls, otherwise I will just stick with a reasonably priced cue designed to play with. Just my opinion.


If you owned a million dollar Stratavarius violin would you be able to play like a master, and for that matter are they also laced with gold and diamonds.

These cues are great playing instruments- especially in the hands of a master, but they are also great investments and rare artwork for collecting and viewing.--and besides that, when they are used properly I believe they expand the players realm of what is possible within the laws of physics in the game of billiards.

CS
 
JAM said:
They're pretty popular in my neck of the woods. Many a local plays with a Black Board and would never leave home without it. :D

One local player actually has been collecting Black Boar cues, paying $10,000 on up apiece, stating that he felt it was a good investment, as the prices have risen in the past decade, making him think the Black Boar is a good value, even at today's prices! :p

JAM

Allen plays w/ a Black Boar Jenny........A sweet stick it is!
 
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