I did not, and still do not, understand why Tyler was not on this 2020 Mosconi Team USA.
Something is wrong with Team USA
- Thread starter jokrswylde
- Start date
I think they key is to get pool into middle and high schools. It doesn't have to be a sanctioned sport, it could even be at the club level...much like many high school s in the south have bass fishing clubs that compete against each other.
Where I teach, one of our English teachers is a former professional trick shot guy. He got an 8 ft table donated, had our construction kids build a table top for it. During the day, it is his big conference table for his classes. In the afternoon, the table top comes off and he has billiard club meetings. The first time I saw students walking the halls with pool cases on their shoulders was pretty dang cool.
You are, of course, correct, and we all have the ability, arguably even the responsibility, to influence whether our youth try their hand at pool, especially poolroom proprietors and parents. Unfortunately, the poolroom still has an image problem in America, and it's not surprising as hustling, profanity, rowdiness and uncleanliness are still encountered far too often in the poolrooms of America. We must try to evolve past these problems that are making pool less attractive to our youth.
That said, it works both ways. The tidying up the image of the pro snooker player some 40 years ago led to increased respect for the game among adults, removed some of the stigma associated with snooker establishments, and ultimately led to more interest among Britain's youth in playing snooker. I experienced it first hand, for I have probably spent at least two weeks (and often more) a year in England in each of the last 40 years, and have frequented a few of the pool/snooker rooms of England regularly over the years.
The image of the poolroom can, similarly, be impacted, for the better, by the professionalism of those who play pool for a living. Emily Frazer and all at Matchroom fully comprehend that, because their productions already draw a big TV audience worldwide, the way they present pro pool can have an impact on the game at the grassroots level. I know they'll do their best to enhance pool's image. Matchroom's acquisition of the US Open 9-ball and the World 9-ball Championships over the past two years has positioned them, for the very first time, at the helm of pool's competitive future, so they can now start doing their thing. Still, it's a process and it won't happen overnight.
We have two major pool leagues in the USA. Frankly they exist solely for profit. They do little if anything to develop new talent and advance pool in America. It takes room owners and interested parties to promote talent development as the sport currently exhists. The leagues make ads which show youngsters playing but where's the financial support and sponsership? So, in order for pool to become a semi-major sport in the USA again we'll need a governing body that actually promotes the game and helps with talent development.
Robb Browning
Member
Good parents do everything in their power to keep thier kids as far away from the poolworld as humanly possible and if you take a good, fair look at this world.... you can't blame them one bit.
This sport is surrounded by dysfunctional drug addicts, alcoholics and people who will cut your throat for a dollar bill.
We have legitimate pool players sleeping in their broken down cars, we have players calling each others snakes in a global broadcast, we have the top 8 players in the world dumping off Vegas in 91, we have morons like MN-fatty representing the sport, every-time you see a pool table in a movie or idiot-box program there's people killing each other and slinging dope, we have local players dumping off rail-birds and the list goes on and on and on.
Not such a bright future for people's kids.
You can't fix pool from the bottom up! You have to fix it from the top-down.
Imagine if league operators, working in conjunction with room owners, table and gear manufacturers, etc., committed to providing a table and house cues (used is fine) ,to a few local high schools. Then, with as many leagues players out there, put out a call to donate one afternoon or evening a week to sponsor a billiard club and teach fundamentals and game rules, etc.
Maybe once a semester, even annually, a local pro, shortstop, or professional instructor comes in to conduct a free clinic. As it grows, schools within the same district compete against each other, eventually branching out to district and state competitions.
It is sort of a chicken and egg situation though. To get more kids interested, they need to see a potential future in it, scholarships or career. A pro tour would be huge in this respect.
This model would also require total buy in from school administrators and community members.
Might be a pipe dream, but I have seen it first hand when I started out with 3 kids in Robotics club competing a couple times a year with one other school...6 years later, I have over 20 kids and compete in competitions statewide...
Maybe once a semester, even annually, a local pro, shortstop, or professional instructor comes in to conduct a free clinic. As it grows, schools within the same district compete against each other, eventually branching out to district and state competitions.
It is sort of a chicken and egg situation though. To get more kids interested, they need to see a potential future in it, scholarships or career. A pro tour would be huge in this respect.
This model would also require total buy in from school administrators and community members.
Might be a pipe dream, but I have seen it first hand when I started out with 3 kids in Robotics club competing a couple times a year with one other school...6 years later, I have over 20 kids and compete in competitions statewide...
I'm not going to deny that the big leagues exist for profit (and only one is major, the others are tiny in comparison). I wouldn't do it if there was no profit in it, because there's too much headache and undesirable work in it, for which one needs to be paid. Yet, if you look at the sport in this area, it is miles ahead of where it was when I started over 20 years ago, bigger than it ever was. So I don't understand your use of the word 'again'. When was pool a semi-major sport in the USA?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. To get the kind of growth about which you talk, it's going to take corporations with a lot bigger pockets than the leagues or Matchroom or all the room owners in the world, and a whole generation or two of people willing to participate for no financial gain, both as players and as organizers/volunteers. You have to make it desirable for those corporations to have their names associated with the sport so they can profit indirectly from that association. You have to get the sport "out of the gutter" for that, meaning you have to break the association between the sport and drinking, drugs, and gambling. That includes taking beer off the menu in your room and getting rid of the players who sit on the stools in front of your bar and wait for an opportunity to match up. Are you willing to do that? I'm guessing no. Once the image is improved, and just doing that will take a long time, then parents might actually try to encourage, not discourage their children from joining a billiards club in school. It's not like a robotics club - that could lead to something positive so you're not fighting parents, who you also need for encouragement and as unpaid volunteers (like soccer or little league baseball). Talent development comes last, because to do that you need paid instructors and for that you need someone who sees enough value in instruction to pay for it. Sort of like free clinics versus paid clinics - free clinics are for promotion, paid clinics are for development of talent. It takes everyone, and nothing short of that will last long.
I came to this realization over 20 years ago, shortly after I became a league operator. It quickly discouraged me from trying to get pool started in the schools. We weren't there yet, and we're not there now. When we get there, I am not opposed to running school or developmental leagues for free. I'll do my part (and most APA league operators I know will too), but everyone else has to do their part as well. Until then, we will continue to do what we can to change the image of the sport, like discouraging gambling and encouraging people to play just for fun, instead of for a pay back. We're part way there, it's not as bad as before, so maybe all we need is more time. I used to gamble small (tiny) time myself, but stopped when I realized that I had to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
By the way, anyone who posts or shares live streams of people playing with money in the middle is NOT doing their part unless they make it clear that none of the money comes from the players themselves. They call themselves promoters, but all they promote is gambling. All of the major and semi-major sports in America take a strong stance against gambling on your own sport. Why is it ok in pool?
Overall, your post is excellent, but it's here where I disagree. No corporation will associate itself with pool for indirect profit. Expecting outside investors to arrive at pool's door with money without an expectation of a clear and measurable profit is fantasy.
The last really major corporation that threw a lot of money at men's pro pool was RJ Reynolds, and promoting Camel cigarettes was their plan, a reasonable idea given that so many pool players smoke. The last really major corporation that threw big money at women's pro pool was Gordon's, best known for Gordon's gin and Gordon's vodka. This investment was intended to capitalize on the fact that pool is closely associated with alcohol consumption. Camel tour events and WPA Gordon's events all carried very big prize money and were great while they lasted, but both tried to capitalize on pool's image as a haven for smokers and drinkers.
As you point out, though, few, if any, major corporations, even if a profit is available, would even consider throwing money at pool until it projects a cleaner image. It's not the cigarette guys or the hard liquor guys that will deliver pool from its doldrums, although we're all grateful that Camel and Gordon's tried. An "angel", like a Kevin Trudeau, will pull the plug on pool quickly unless profits are realized promptly, so an "angel" is also not the likely solution.
Getting the sport, to use your terminology, "out of the gutter" is something to which Matchroom and some other pool organizations aspire, but it's a process and unless pro players are willing to modify their appearance, demeanor, and language to support that process, it's a lost cause.
Sorry for clarity, I did mean Marcel was right on every occasion, not Ronnie!
I don't think we disagree at all. No matter what the approach, grass roots or top down, it starts with a cleaner image for the sport, to make it more attractive to parents and corporations. That takes everyone, and it takes a long time - a lifetime or more.
Don't get me wrong - there has been improvement in the last 20 years. But we're nowhere near ready for corporate, or even school, involvement. I was thankful at the time for the efforts of RJ Reynolds and Gordons but thinking back I'm kind of glad they failed, especially RJ Reynolds.
Your statement about pro players rings true, as it did 20-some years ago. I remember a conversation I had with Earl Strickland at the time, about this very topic, and he said the same thing. He has since changed his image - I think he saw a lost cause too.
There is nothing wrong with 2 competitive players gambling / playing pool for money, responsibly. That, along with playing in tournaments, is what it’s all about when you are a more serious player. Everything else is nothing but practice!
Thinking about it, I have seen golf advertised promoting what we'd call a money match. Not a tournament, but two golf pros squaring of for big money. The backers being major corporations, the promoters being TV networks. So, is that gambling? How is it any different than what pool players do?
Eh... it’s called freedom.
Momentarily ignoring the fact that there would be a large saver arranged between the teams if this ever happened, this would hurt American pro pool.
In the context of what pro pool players earn, the guaranteed $15,000 payday that comes with earning a spot on the Mosconi team is massive, roughly equal to what one earns if they win the Derby City 9-ball event or both of the Turning Stone events. That's why the chance to gain a spot on Team USA helps participation levels in all events carrying Mosconi ranking points. Get rid of the guaranteed payday for the losing team and a) far fewer would aspire to make the team, b) some might decline the invitation to play on the team, and c) the likelihood of fielding the best team possible will decline.
I think matchroom should have been the primary guide for etiquette.
Phones stay in the practice room.
The hair didn't bug me.
So true. I one heard someone say that they didn't like how Freezers was really bright. He preferred the dark and dingy feel of a pool room. Not what pool needs to grow.
Very sad indeed that only $15K each guaranteed to the losers and only $30K each for the winners of the Mosconi Cup is as good as it gets for the most prestigious pro pool event of the season. Even sadder that that $ amount is enough to motivate the top players in their efforts to make the team.
With the pandemic rebooting man's mindset, our industry could see a rebirth, as buildings become empty across the states, rents will go down, and closed rooms have groups of table$$$$$. Mankind will get back to ''before''. Weekends will soon be spent in the bars w/o drinking. 