Souquet vs Fu 2006 WPC - The Double Hill Rack

[jay helfert]

JH,
You're on (though how tight was Ralf's table???; it makes a difference). Two tips of very low right, one "click" to the right to allow for the deflection, enough power to maximize the draw; power stroke, NO elbow drop. As I mention, I was bridging on the table, using sjm's diagram for setup (not the photo posted later).

It's only a medium tough shot when you are alone in your basement (of course, the shots that George Breedlove gives me to practice are usually tough as nails - he likes the "big stroke" shots); for the cash I suspect it is tougher.......

P.S. - a difference of even an inch or two to the right for the object ball makes a big difference in the difficulty of the shot; I get to place the balls .

Your on! See you in Derby City. Don't forget your cue.

 

[jay helfert]

Yeah, SJM's posts can be evil. Sometimes my boss sees me looking at the same 10 minute youtube video for 3 hours and wonders when I'm going to start working.... speaking of Evil Posts, whatever happened to Jude's evil posts... those were fun too...

Back to the thread...
#3- did anybody think Ralf could have played this with follow and come around the 9? If he could beat the 9, I thought this would have been an easier shot with less chance of errors...

Yes, yes and yes! I thought that was his best option. No danger of a scratch, and you don't need to stroke it so hard. I think Ralf's adrenaline was pumping hard.

 

[Williebetmore]

Your on! See you in Derby City. Don't forget your cue.

JH,
Okay....are you bringing the Brunswick Metro table with you???? I'll practice it on the Diamond just in case you don't have enough room in your luggage.

P.S. - unfortunately I have this sneaking suspicion that the size of the pockets probably doesn't affect Ralf's confidence level as much as mine.

P.P.S. - Hey, how about a wager of breakfast at Lynne's Paradise Cafe, I'll drive, it's less than 5 minutes away from the hotel???

 

[jay helfert]

JH,
Okay....are you bringing the Brunswick Metro table with you???? I'll practice it on the Diamond just in case you don't have enough room in your luggage.

P.S. - unfortunately I have this sneaking suspicion that the size of the pockets probably doesn't affect Ralf's confidence level as much as mine.

The Diamond pockets are probably slightly looser than the Metros they used in Manila. I'll go for it anyway. Dinner for two my man?

 

[sjm]

Yes, yes and yes! I thought that was his best option. No danger of a scratch, and you don't need to stroke it so hard. I think Ralf's adrenaline was pumping hard.

I wonder if this is so, Jay, for if he played the follow, odds are he'd have ended up in the middle of the table and would have had a longer and tougher shot from the six to the eight, quite possibly requiring inside english. Still, at least it's a higher percentage shot to pocket the five that way.

The more I think about the shot that Ralf actually played, the more convinced I become that it was one of the best clutch shots I have ever seen, the choice of a very accomplished and abundantly confident champion.

 

[Williebetmore]

The Diamond pockets are probably slightly looser than the Metros they used in Manila. I'll go for it anyway. Dinner for two my man?

TJ,
OUCH!!!!! I guess that's why Ralf doesn't need a day job.

P.S. - I do NOT approve of leaving the venue during tournament hours....and I do NOT approve of eating in that dining room (I do NOT approve of food poisoning). We'll have to hash out some safer sort of arrangement.

P.P.S. - I guess it all depends on the exact angle Ralf had. The way I set it up, a follow shot would have required as much (if not more force) than the draw option to take it 3 or 4 rails around for decent position on the 6. In addition, even an inch straighter than I set it up would have required substantial right hand English to get comfortably around the 9. I wasn't there (and the cuetable is ALWAYS limited in its ability to show the fine points of the setup); but where did Ralf contact the upper long rail after pocketing the 5 in sjm's diagram...that would give some indication of the true cut angle that he faced?? The more cut, the better and more difficult his shot will be considered (as if you guys don't know this better than me).

 

[sjm]

Jay, I'm warning you. When Williebetmore sets his mind to something, watch out. He'll practice that shot for two hours a day until January just to beat you out of a dinner!

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, I'm warning you. When Williebetmore sets his mind to something, watch out. He'll practice that shot for two hours a day until January just to beat you out of a dinner!

Thanks for the warning Stu. After I win this bet, I'm going to set it up and bet him I make it the first try. How about them apples? And you heard it on here.

 

[jay helfert]

I wonder if this is so, Jay, for if he played the follow, odds are he'd have ended up in the middle of the table and would have had a longer and tougher shot from the six to the eight, quite possibly requiring inside english. Still, at least it's a higher percentage shot to pocket the five that way.

The more I think about the shot that Ralf actually played, the more convinced I become that it was one of the best clutch shots I have ever seen, the choice of a very accomplished and abundantly confident champion.

Agreed! It was a brilliant shot, one of the best I've seen under intense pressure.

But if he had chosen to hit it with follow (which I'm sure he could have done), the cue ball would have come up somewhere mid table above the side pockets. He would have been above the six and only had to follow it down with some right english for shape on the eight. And he wouldn't have flirted with scratching in the side either.

I guess he felt the nine was in the way, or could be. I'll have to ask him next time I see him.

You are right about one other thing. Stroking hard like he did is a better way of "cinching" the shot.

 

[BlowFish]

Yeah, SJM's posts can be evil. Sometimes my boss sees me looking at the same 10 minute youtube video for 3 hours and wonders when I'm going to start working.... speaking of Evil Posts, whatever happened to Jude's evil posts... those were fun too...

Back to the thread...
#3- did anybody think Ralf could have played this with follow and come around the 9? If he could beat the 9, I thought this would have been an easier shot with less chance of errors...

Yes, me and my friends did. We were with Ralf and Engert the whole time. Everyone of us choose the follow and come around the 9. Only Engert differed and said that Ralf will shoot it the way he shoot it before he even shoot the darn thing.

Later on after the game, Ralf said that it was the best option of getting position to the 6 and near it instead of the follow as there is a very high chance of hitting the 9. Ralf even said that it was a tough one to execute and he was right about it.

Willie, you better get practicing this shot everyday until the DCC. I'll take Jay's side on this one.

 

[jay helfert]

All these guys can make all these shots, unitl I call them on it. Suddenly it gets very quiet on here.

Willie and I are just having fun, but a couple of other guys talked about some serious money, and then they dogged the bet.

 

[BlowFish]

I hear you Jay. Loud and clear.

 

[Williebetmore]

Willie and I are just having fun, but a couple of other guys talked about some serious money...

JH,
Well, I've actually never seen you eat.....how do I know that THIS is not a serious bet????

P.S. - tell sjm I don't need that much practice if I get to set up the balls; I'll shoot it tomorrow (I've been working pretty hard on my stroke for a couple of years....this thing is almost a hanger ). Just in case, though, I may bring a credit card. Can't wait for DCC.

 

[jay helfert]

JH,
Well, I've actually never seen you eat.....how do I know that THIS is not a serious bet????

P.S. - tell sjm I don't need that much practice if I get to set up the balls; I'll shoot it tomorrow (I've been working pretty hard on my stroke for a couple of years....this thing is almost a hanger ). Just in case, though, I may bring a credit card. Can't wait for DCC.

I'm hungry now thinking about it.

 

[Marvel]

This Tournament Edition Metro is essentially tighter than the Diamond Pro (at least the Diamonds they used at the US Open last year - don't know about the DCC).

I don't see the shot been shot by follow, as to eliminate the chance to contact the 9 you should play it with slight inside english, which then again makes it more difficult to be pocketed and the cb's positioning wouldn't be so natural anymore either.
Ralf felt the rush and wanted to stroke it well and have an easy 6 and out afterwards. What gave him some confidence, was the awareness that if he'd miss the 5, with that shot selection he'd might get lucky with safe much more probable than with the follow. Then again, the scratch was an option, but no-one could've shoot that shot with doubts nor fears on mind, so it surely was one of the greatest shots under pressure there has been.

The table really is TIGHT. You can see everyone rattle balls in that tournament, especially when some force used.

 

[BlowFish]

Actual pic of the pockets at WPC '06.

Corner:

Side:

 

[DeadPoked]

Yes, yes and yes! I thought that was his best option. No danger of a scratch, and you don't need to stroke it so hard. I think Ralf's adrenaline was pumping hard.

If Ralf would have just used follow and went 2 or 3 rails out for the six we wouldn't be talking about that match today. Glad he executed it the way he did

 

[sjm]

If Ralf would have just used follow and went 2 or 3 rails out for the six we wouldn't be talking about that match today. Glad he executed it the way he did

I disagree. Despite Ralf's magnificent effort on the five ball, I thought the true magic in this rack was the way he beat Fu to the shot. I feel it was one of the prettiest tactical sequences I can ever remember, and I started the thread more to celebrate one of the most tense tactical exchanges ever seen at a critical juncture of a major championship.

 

[jay helfert]

I disagree. Despite Ralf's magnificent effort on the five ball, I thought the true magic in this rack was the way he beat Fu to the shot. I feel it was one of the prettiest tactical sequences I can ever remember, and I started the thread more to celebrate one of the most tense tactical exchanges ever seen at a critical juncture of a major championship.

Agreed, some great pool by two good players. Just think, if this long game had come during an ESPN match, we would have never seen it. They would have edited this game out for TV, guaranteed.

Okay, they would have cut in to show the six, eight and nine since it was the case game.

 

[CreeDo]

offtopic but:
Something else espn can take note of... the camera doesn't have to jump around quite so much, and they could stand to experiment with the angles. I hate some of the more common angles like the very steep foot rail angle that kinda shortens the perspective (making every shot look like a hanger, or else impossibly thin, and you can't judge how much angle there really is)

I just watched a nifty video of souquet vs hybler and it was a spectator's cam (prolly on a mount of some kind) and it was at a very sporty angle... from way above and nearer the head spot, and tilted to show the whole table. What you'd call a 3/4 view. Anyway I found I loved having a fairly static angle, rather than constantly spazzing between face/side view/foot view/pocket view. I know that won't work for everyone but I liked it, it's a mix between watching the action and having a perfect diagram that you can look at and say "how would I play this?"

Another note they can take is that I don't really care to see the break more than once. I've seen balls scurry around before and it's not as exciting as actual shootng. They'd save half an hour just cutting out the double and triple repeated break reviews.