By the way, nice work in the booth Sir. You seem to be a natural doing commentary. You have a good way about describing shots, layouts and strategy and using billiard slang in your delivery...
Spat between Accu-Stats and InsidePoolMag at DCC
- Thread starter sfleinen
- Start date
Thanks. I appreciate it. I've said often that my commentary is focused on the average player instead of professional insight (since i have none).
Freddie
+1 on that!
Freddie was my savior so many times during the week. Putting a muzzle on Alvin's inane and annoying blathering was only part of it. He really has a way of explaining things that crosses over the barrier between serious players and mere enthusiasts. His commentary with J.R. during the Pettman high run was as informative as it was entertaining.
FWIW my wife and I watched the free IP stream every chance we could. She's not a player at all, but really enjoys watching the game with me. I can't tell you how many times she said, "Oh... now I get it". Now she's really hooked. This is how you fix pool. Intelligent commentary leading to a greater understanding of the game = enjoyable viewing in the future.
The big mistake I see over and over again is commentators trying to cater to the dedicated playing audience only. Well, guess what? There aren't that many serious players in the country to provide a large fan base. Recently, John Schmidt was on here saying how worthless AZ is, and how pool is fun to play but boring to watch. What a terrible message to be putting out! For a player at his level, that may be true. However, there are millions of golf enthusiasts who can't play a lick but watch the majors anyway. Why not pool?
To me, pool is a lot more enjoyable to watch than golf because I play pool whereas I don't play golf. My wife OTOH plays neither, but she would never watch Tiger Wood's play golf if you paid her. I believe the billiard industry is dismissing a potential fan base that remains untapped. After watching a few TAR matches, the U.S. Open and then going to the last Turning Stone event with me, my gal has actually started to show interest in playing, and has begun to hit the balls around when I'm not looking.
Pretty soon she'll want her own cue. She'll be buying Hustlin' and Focus garments, DVDs and books, a shooting glove, and who knows what else. The billiard industry will prosper, players will get sponsored, purses will increase, and players will compete even harder for the more lucrative tournament wins. And we can thank guys like Freddie for drawing her into the fold.:smile:
People need to remember that Pat Fleming just lost Dean Gumpton from Accu stats staff due to a heart attack, just days before this spat and was not really himself.
Kd
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Kd
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
and they walk among us.
I second that Eddie plus they are allowed to breed. Barney!!!!!!!! Dude!!! time to step outside and get some fresh air....You were told countless times that Kwakka"s post was a joke in the chat room, yet you still decided to take it a step further, in the future check your facts before you react.........
Sounds like Greg needs to decide if he wants the free streams and accu-stats there or not and to decide who can stream what so this doesn't happen again.
If I was Greg I'd tell Pat to either learn to get along with the other streamers or take a hike, but that's just me.
If he's seriously paying Pat to be there, huge waste imo, why not take that money and try to pay ESPN to cover the finals to get some tv coverage, like the WPBA does. Seems that would be a better use of advertising money to me.
If I was Greg I'd tell Pat to either learn to get along with the other streamers or take a hike, but that's just me.
If he's seriously paying Pat to be there, huge waste imo, why not take that money and try to pay ESPN to cover the finals to get some tv coverage, like the WPBA does. Seems that would be a better use of advertising money to me.
I predict that after this there will be a conversation about who can stream what and when.
I can totally understand that streamers who plan on being live most of the event don't want dead air. They are beholden to their sponsors to have a steady amount of viewers and obviously no action drops that amount significantly. Pat on the other hand is ONLY making revenue with PPVs so any "grey-market" matches can truly lead to a loss of paid viewers.
I still prefer to give Pat the benefit of the doubt here and hearing that his cameraman died only reinforces the stress he was under.
Regarding ESPN I don't think that the WPBA paid ESPN but what they did do is foot the bill for the production costs and ESPN would come with their commentators. Later ESPN would edit the match as they saw fit. The WPBA produced the footage and they gave it to ESPN and sold it to other stations around the world where it's not cut up badly as ESPN does to pool matches in the USA. IIRC that is, my memory is really hazy on the exact arrangement but I think that Peg Ledman was actually the producer.
I can't agree more. While Alvin is obviously enthusiastic his exuberance really comes across sometimes as hugely distracting when listening on speaker.
Fred on the other hand is the nice soothing level voice of reason and obviously knows the game well enough to provide credible analysis. Also Fred's general knowledge of the pool industry and history is very helpful when he uses it to interject something relevant and spur a conversation about the finer points of this great sport.
I almost hate to say tone it down Alvin, but buddy tone it down. We love you but you can't scream LIVE into the mic every two minutes, it's jarring for the listener.
As it was explained to me, you are pretty close. The WPBA had to pay ESPN to produce the event and ESPN paid them the equal amount for the rights. Basically breaking even. It was also explained to me that the WPBA is a NFP which may have seemed like a good idea at the time but in reality a huge mistake in the business model.
Carry on - when is IP and Accustats gonna duke it out for real?
I wasnt there so I dont know what really happened. I do know that in the past at Derby there were issues that came up between Accu-Stats and TAR that were handled with class by Accu-Stats.
Pat deserves the benefit of the doubt. He is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Not hard to see how he could get a little pissed off if he felt someone was doing him wrong.
Pat Fleming is in the damn Hall of Fame. For good reason. IP as an entity has a mixed rep at best. If Pat lost his shit I cant see him not having a reason.
Pat deserves the benefit of the doubt. He is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Not hard to see how he could get a little pissed off if he felt someone was doing him wrong.
Pat Fleming is in the damn Hall of Fame. For good reason. IP as an entity has a mixed rep at best. If Pat lost his shit I cant see him not having a reason.
....how so?
I was there and did witness it all from start to finish.
I was practicing on the table alone, Pat came up and we chatted a bit as I hit balls... Alvin then walked out from the booth. Pat was visibly agitated as he made his point to Alvin who responded calmly and politely that JR had to return until he could do anything as he is just an employee and it was not his decision.
So Pat sat proudly by the table I was playing on to wait for Alvin to get JR who was no where around at that time in the morning... then in short order Pat became more intent on imposing his will and lets just say tempers flared. It was not pretty.
Pat finally decided to grab the tripod and pull it down from it's perch up on the risers... then he realized that he was also ripping the cords off of the wall that were attached to the camera and possibly destroying some equipment, so he quickly placed it back up on the riser to avoid further damage. (Turns out later that the camera was not working quite right.)
All the while yelling, cussing, and name calling ensued from both sides. There was a face off as Pat become more aggressive and then almost a fight so I told them "come on guys" and luckily there was no fight because Alvin decided to walk away.
I've never seen Pat act or speak like that, and in his own admission to me after Alvin left, he had not said some of the things he did in over 30 years. It would have shocked anyone who knows him. Both guys said things I had never heard them say before. I don't know if Pat has apologized publicly or privately to IP for the incident as of yet, but imagine that eventually he will, considering his usual demeanor and position in the pool world.
I heard that later it was determined by Diamond that no contract was broken by Inside Pool.
Either way, considering the unusual invasion of the playing arena, I'm happy that I was able to brush it off and focus on the task at hand enough to win the 14.1 Challenge this year. (which according to some web sites and billiards digest, by omission, was an event that did not even happen...for some strange reason)
I think Inside Pool and all the other streamers will also brush it off and stay focused on the future, and on producing better and better pool shows for all of the great fans and players out there.
Max Eberle
I was practicing on the table alone, Pat came up and we chatted a bit as I hit balls... Alvin then walked out from the booth. Pat was visibly agitated as he made his point to Alvin who responded calmly and politely that JR had to return until he could do anything as he is just an employee and it was not his decision.
So Pat sat proudly by the table I was playing on to wait for Alvin to get JR who was no where around at that time in the morning... then in short order Pat became more intent on imposing his will and lets just say tempers flared. It was not pretty.
Pat finally decided to grab the tripod and pull it down from it's perch up on the risers... then he realized that he was also ripping the cords off of the wall that were attached to the camera and possibly destroying some equipment, so he quickly placed it back up on the riser to avoid further damage. (Turns out later that the camera was not working quite right.)
All the while yelling, cussing, and name calling ensued from both sides. There was a face off as Pat become more aggressive and then almost a fight so I told them "come on guys" and luckily there was no fight because Alvin decided to walk away.
I've never seen Pat act or speak like that, and in his own admission to me after Alvin left, he had not said some of the things he did in over 30 years. It would have shocked anyone who knows him. Both guys said things I had never heard them say before. I don't know if Pat has apologized publicly or privately to IP for the incident as of yet, but imagine that eventually he will, considering his usual demeanor and position in the pool world.
I heard that later it was determined by Diamond that no contract was broken by Inside Pool.
Either way, considering the unusual invasion of the playing arena, I'm happy that I was able to brush it off and focus on the task at hand enough to win the 14.1 Challenge this year. (which according to some web sites and billiards digest, by omission, was an event that did not even happen...for some strange reason)
I think Inside Pool and all the other streamers will also brush it off and stay focused on the future, and on producing better and better pool shows for all of the great fans and players out there.
Max Eberle
Thanks Max for your response.
So did Pat get his weapons back or does Alvin still have them?
That seems to be the rub here, just WHAT is the agreement. So far everything has been speculation. I'd like to know what both entities had for filming agreements, hopefully nothing that was just verbal as that's a fail from the get go.