Sportmanship question (let me put on my flack jacket....)

Maniac said:
I remember more than a few years ago we had a thread similar to this one. I also remember that in that thread I commented that unless I absolutely detested my opponent, I would surely warn him if he/she were about to shoot the wrong ball.

I have since changed my mind.

After literally years of watching underrated players getting spots and winning without the spot, players doing all kinds of subtle sharking, players paying more attention to their cell phones than they are their game, etc., I am at the point where I will try to win the game in whatever way I can do it within the rules.

Last I checked, there were no rules for warning your opponent that they are shooting at the wrong ball. And the posters that say "it's on them" are absolutely correct.

YMMV

Maniac
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I guess that I agree with this if it's a tournament, gambling, or a league match. But I've had friends want to beat me so bad when just playing for fun, that they do this then. I mean, for a practice game, I'm pretty sure that I'm telling my opponent that he's shooting at the wrong ball. But if it's the guy that just did that to me in the previous practice game, maybe I wouldn't then either. LOL
 
In casual games with friends, yes. In a more structured/formal setting, like a tournament, no. And not because of lack of integrity, but for a few reasons:

1) Maybe he's doing something unexpected, and now I've just sharked him
2) Maybe he's just trying to look at angles to line up for his next shot, and I just sharked him
3) Maybe *I've* misread the table due to angles/glares, and I just sharked him
4) And, as others have stated, it's his responsibility to make sure he plays correctly

It's not a great situation--I've shot the wrong ball before. Winning because my opponent shot the wrong ball isn't how I'd like to win. But there isn't much to be done in that situation.
 
Your feelings (opinions) on sportsmanship reside within yourself.
Rules are specific.
Cheap shots happen all the time and whether or not an opponent takes one is unimportant to your own moral compass.

If the guy didn't break the rules, he's within his right to take the win with whatever means he deems acceptable.

The question becomes "will your morals change based on his game play?"
 
orion21 said:
Just trying to get the pulse of the community.

Playing in a league singles regional qualifier. Top bracket (NAPA 100+). I'm nervous and down 2-0 race to 6, been in my chair since racking game 1. Get to the table, run 2 thru 5 and for some reason didn't see the 6. My pattern just didn't include it. I shot the 7 out of sequence - my opponent immediately calls a foul, since he standing near the table watching.

I'm not judging , just curious as to how many folks would have said something before I shot?
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I would not have said anything. Maybe if my opponent were a friend and a weaker player.
 
orion21 said:
Just trying to get the pulse of the community.

Playing in a league singles regional qualifier. Top bracket (NAPA 100+). I'm nervous and down 2-0 race to 6, been in my chair since racking game 1. Get to the table, run 2 thru 5 and for some reason didn't see the 6. My pattern just didn't include it. I shot the 7 out of sequence - my opponent immediately calls a foul, since he standing near the table watching.

I'm not judging , just curious as to how many folks would have said something before I shot?
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This situation has been discussed many times on here before. You’ll get a variety of opinions. If my opponent is getting ready to hit the wrong ball and I see it happening in time enough to stop them, I will. They appreciate it, they remember, and they are more likely to return the favor at some point in the future. To me it’s just the right thing to do.

However, if my opponent chooses not to do it, I can live with that as they are not obligated to do so. What bothers me more, is after calling the foul, they claim that they would have stopped you if they had realized in time what you were doing. Not always, but usually that is BS - they see exactly what you are doing and they always fail to speak up until just after you shoot. They try to claim their integrity, but it’s very clear that winning at all costs is what is important to them.

Just take your ball-in-hand and keep your mouth shut with your excuses as to why you didn’t stop me from shooting the wrong ball.
 
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Get_A_Grip said:
I guess that I agree with this if it's a tournament, gambling, or a league match. But I've had friends want to beat me so bad when just playing for fun, that they do this then. I mean, for a practice game, I'm pretty sure that I'm telling my opponent that he's shooting at the wrong ball. But if it's the guy that just did that to me in the previous practice game, maybe I wouldn't then either. LOL
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Come on now? A person could get butt hurt in a funnsie game?
Oops, wait a minute. That has happened to me. I used to act as the substitute rack boy for a player that played even with Jeremy Jones. It was strictly practice. We were playing 9 ball and I watched him getting down on the 3 with the 2 on the table. I thought it would be fun to see how long until he noticed the 2. After the 3 he noticed the 2 and became irate that I had not told him. So he got to continue the expected run out and we had to change out my Cyclop balls the next rack. I saw to it that I was not available for practice after that.

On another occasion I bought a beer with a $100 bill. The waitress gave me change in $5 bills. It had been ages since I had played a better player for money. So I figured to shoot the 95 at 5 a game just to see how long I could last. I asked him to play $5 three ball. His eyes lit up! When I added on the 10’ table, he declined. Hmmmm?
 
orion21 said:
Just trying to get the pulse of the community.

Playing in a league singles regional qualifier. Top bracket (NAPA 100+). I'm nervous and down 2-0 race to 6, been in my chair since racking game 1. Get to the table, run 2 thru 5 and for some reason didn't see the 6. My pattern just didn't include it. I shot the 7 out of sequence - my opponent immediately calls a foul, since he standing near the table watching.

I'm not judging , just curious as to how many folks would have said something before I shot?
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I would not have. It’s a tournament. I would expect it called on me so I’m calling it on my opponent.
 
its not up to you to call the opponent if he is going to shoot the wrong ball. it isnt up to you to second guess his shots.

however in another post it was said after the player made a bad hit since his opponent didnt say anything he was justified on continuing on. that is wrong and cheating. you are required to call a foul on yourself. or is it okay if your opponent is looking away or talking to your friend and you foul , you can just get away with it because he wasnt looking or blocked by you .
that is an entirely different situation.
 
Inferno said:
Your feelings (opinions) on sportsmanship reside within yourself.
Rules are specific.
Cheap shots happen all the time and whether or not an opponent takes one is unimportant to your own moral compass.

If the guy didn't break the rules, he's within his right to take the win with whatever means he deems acceptable.

The question becomes "will your morals change based on his game play?"
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They absolutely will not, was just curious what the greater community thought.
 
maha said:
its not up to you to call the opponent if he is going to shoot the wrong ball. it isnt up to you to second guess his shots.

however in another post it was said after the player made a bad hit since his opponent didnt say anything he was justified on continuing on. that is wrong and cheating. you are required to call a foul on yourself. or is it okay if your opponent is looking away or talking to your friend and you foul , you can just get away with it because he wasnt looking or blocked by you .
that is an entirely different situation.
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Except if the player is NOT SURE that he fouled, he certainly shouldn't be calling a foul on HIMSELF in those situations.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Except if the player is NOT SURE that he fouled, he certainly shouldn't be calling a foul on HIMSELF in those situations.
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That's an interesting one...

I've had that situation and asked my opponent if they saw and what they thought and gone with what they said regardless of whether it was in my favour or not.

I think the sporting think if you're unsure is to ask and if they didn't see anything then you play on.

What I'm glad about is that people accept it is possible to be unsure, some are adamant you always know if you've fouled and that is 100% not the case (as replays have got better on tv, there have been quite a few recent examples in pro snooker where players haven't felt a foul and there's virtually no chance they would not call it if they felt it as they know it would get picked up by the tv camera's).
 
The bottom line is "If you cheat to win, you didn't win. The cheat won".

It's a game. There will be other games. Win or lose or draw, the game is over. Let the ego take a back seat to sportsmanship.
 
Inferno said:
The bottom line is "If you cheat to win, you didn't win. The cheat won".

It's a game. There will be other games. Win or lose or draw, the game is over. Let the ego take a back seat to sportsmanship.
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So I take it that you would notify your opponent that he was shooting the wrong ball then, before he committed a foul? Cheating is INTENTIONALLY knowing that you fouled and not calling it. We are talking about if the person wasn't sure if they had fouled. I believe in most rule sets, hitting both balls at the same time goes to the shooter as well. Once a game is over, even if the player found out that they had indeed fouled, there isn't much that can be done at that point.
 
I watched a player watch his opponent shot the wrong ball in a league 8ball match. Instead of calling the foul right away he let the player continue to shoot the wrong balls until all the problems were gone. I had no problem with him not letting the player know right away but felt it was a bit unsportsmanlike to let him continue shooting
 
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