SS vs Ivory piloted joint

[mdavis228]

Hey, folks...
I use 5/16-14 piloted exclusively as my playing joint, and have always used & liked the SS variety. Lee Peppers is doing a 2nd Titlist conversion for me (purpleheart this time), the design of which would lend itself particularly well to an ivory piloted joint. To say I'm happy with the rosewood conversion he did for me would be a severe understatement...
Understanding the subjective nature of the subject matter...
I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about the differences between SS & the various config's of ivory piloted joints - hit, feel, performance, longevity, length effect?, sleeved, etc.
Thanks in advance for your input - and, yes, of course I'll be getting the same from Lee.

 

[desi2960]

long answer

I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about the differences between SS & the various config's of ivory piloted joints - hit, feel, performance, longevity, length effect?, sleeved, etc.


are there enough words in websters to answer those questions?

 

[mdavis228]

We don't have to re-invent the wheel, and we don't have to extoll the virtues of this universe vs another.
I'm just looking for some input from others based on their experience.

 

[macguy]

Hey, folks...
I use 5/16-14 piloted exclusively as my playing joint, and have always used & liked the SS variety. Lee Peppers is doing a 2nd Titlist conversion for me (purpleheart this time), the design of which would lend itself particularly well to an ivory piloted joint. To say I'm happy with the rosewood conversion he did for me would be a severe understatement...
Understanding the subjective nature of the subject matter...
I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about the differences between SS & the various config's of ivory piloted joints - hit, feel, performance, longevity, length effect?, sleeved, etc.
Thanks in advance for your input - and, yes, of course I'll be getting the same from Lee.

I have not played with a ss joint since I first started playing with a Martin eons ago. I would bet that 8 for every 10 cues built today are something other then a ss joint be it ivory, phenolic what ever. I think the ss has no place in the cue and interrupts the play of the cue. I feel like I have a better feel of the cue as it hits the cue ball. I don't like the idea of a heavy slug in the center of the cue. I know this can be subjective but having played with both and for me that is the case. I should add, I am just a hobby cue maker but I have build maybe 500 cues over the years and I have never built a ss jointed cue, I just don't believe in them. Truth is you can play well with either it really doesn't matter. It also has some to do with what you are used to playing with. Honestly, I don't even like the looks of a ss joint, it looks like it doesn't belong there in the first place. Heck, I played with a cue with a wooden screw for years. I think that feels really good but in reality you would not sell many cues if you made just wooden screw cues. Billiard players like them though, I wish pool players would give them a try, they may catch on.

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Ivory performs differently than steel. It is temperamental, and it is not something I would recommend to anyone who is going to be depending on consistency and performance. Ivory is more a luxury thing than a player's material. I personally am a steel joint man and I probably will be forever. The traditional 4 point Black style is about the ideal cue.

With ivory, you gotta be careful with it. I probably won't, but it can crack or chip. I personally like ivory, but when I want performance, I go with my steel joint. Also, if you have that ivory ferrule, ivory joint combo, it's the nuts.

 

[conetip]

I myself would not have Ivory, Just sometimes to many questions at the Airports internationaly.
Ivory needs to be looked after.
I did not like the feel from an Ivory jointed cue that I have tried.But part of that may have been the cue itself and not just the joint.
But if that is what you like , just have it done.
And enjoy the cue.
Neil

 

[hangemhigh]

Chris asked for my opinion in a PM, and I will express my views publicly, here in his thread. Ivory gives a softer hit than S/S, and many prefer that soft hit. I know Bill McDaniel loved the way an Ivory joint played, and developed a cushioning process for his S/S joint to mimic the hit. He believed that the softer hit of Ivory and the durability of S/S was a perfect combination. He was right, and World Champions went on to prove his beliefs, using his cue to continue their winning ways.

Today, we sleeve our Ivory joints over LBM for both durability and playability in CA$H cues, and still use Bill's cushioned S/S joint design in our cues too.

 

[leon sly]

I Don't Like the hit of ss but with this combination of Ivory threaded over ss IMO you can't go wrong for playability not to hard and it's not to soft just a Smooth Hit That's just my opinion!!!

 

[patrickcues]

Hey, folks...
I use 5/16-14 piloted exclusively as my playing joint, and have always used & liked the SS variety. Lee Peppers is doing a 2nd Titlist conversion for me (purpleheart this time), the design of which would lend itself particularly well to an ivory piloted joint. To say I'm happy with the rosewood conversion he did for me would be a severe understatement...
Understanding the subjective nature of the subject matter...
I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about the differences between SS & the various config's of ivory piloted joints - hit, feel, performance, longevity, length effect?, sleeved, etc.
Thanks in advance for your input - and, yes, of course I'll be getting the same from Lee.

Chris:

I played with SS joints for years! I used to like the forward control and the stiffer hit of the SS joints. I now use a Ivroy sleeved joint on my cue. Because of the pig pin I still get forward balance I like but with the Ivory I get a little softer hit. That I also prefer now! I know that a SS joint is stronger than the Ivory is. It will also provide a more forward balance than Ivory will. And it will definately last longer! I really love the look of the Ivory joint over steel!

 

[mdavis228]

I very much appreciate the responses from everyone who's taken the time to provide feedback. As anticipated, they've run the gamut - but I can take bits from each response and arrive at my own expectations, which is as it should be. I always enjoy reading discussions about the nuances of cues & equipment, their construction, and the subtle tweaks that add up to a desirable end product. Seems like there's not wide enough understanding of the influence things like butt taper & diameter, wood tonal characteristics, connection characteristics, etc, affect not just the physical look & feel of a cue, but the type of performance it will provide when combined with a shaft.
Thanks again.

 

[ScottR]

James White described the difference in hit between his 5/16-14 piloted SS and ivory joints as "the ivory is a little more lively". I agree with some of the above that ivory is also a little quieter/softer.

Scott <<== has 4 piloted ivory joint cues

 

[dave sutton]

well... you will get alot of different answers that may leave you more confused. lol

i personally love SS joints. i think ppl that say the are dead are crazy. JMO

i have had alot of ivory jointed cues. i have not liked more then i have liked.

see disclaimer below

 

[jlrowe]

I have a ss jointed 3/8x10 CAM cue i absolutely love. Ive always preferred the ss meucci's and viking's dont understand why they didnt use them in more of their cue lines. They just hit better with the ss joint imo.

 

[champ94wfo]

Dan Janes Quote

Q: Why do you only use a stainless steel joint?

A: It's the best joint there is. (In my opinion) Steel is harder to work and costs more than plastic. If plastic was better I would definitely use it on my cues. Unfortunately, it's not. I have used ivory and still do on some of my more expensive cues. It's a nice material, but not as strong as steel, and contrary to popular opinion ivory does not change the hit of a cue.
The tip, ferrule and shaft will, but not the joint.

 

[PMS]

Hello Mr Davis, You sure did open a can of peas :thumbup:

 

[mdavis228]

Chris will do fine, thanks...
No surprise. I expected a wide range of responses. You take what you can from it all, try to pick up on recurring ideas, and make your own decision. There've been some real gems in what was provided. Lee Peppers is really great to work with, and I'm fortunate that his price for a solid ivory piloted joint is so reasonable that I can give it a try with no qualms. The hit, feel, and performance of a cue is a product of the sum total of a large variety of specs, materials, diameters, tapers, construction techniques, etc.
I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Ratta]

ok, now my opinion

i just only can agree with the sentence champ94wfo ended your question:

"The tip, ferrule and shaft will, but not the joint"

i can just tell that i felt the same for myself- when Dan Prather and his son visited germany in the early 90 s, i met them at the guy where they were workin with and told them to make some (or better many many ) changes on my Prather Custom Cue. Origninally the cue was set up with a stainless steel joint- and i wanted to have an ivory joint on it (cuz of the look and eye candy)- after i got all my changes including inlays, new joint etc the only thing what really changed was the weight- the hit himself didn t change at all.
the same thing i let another cuemaker do with my Scruggs Sneaky Pete- before with ss joint- after change again ivory joint, and again the hit not really changed. and on the Scruggs Cue i really was waiting for a totally other feeling- but there came nothin new , the Scruggs was still a Scruggs! and i think most here played a Scruggs which has really a typical *Hit* . Think that s one of the most important reasons so many guys loves their *Scruggs Weapon*

And further i can tell, that if u change the shaft, and especially if u change to another ferrule material and tip- this is the thing what totally will change *your* feelin- and even so the hit on a cue.


sry for perhaps too funny english- hope u understood what i was trying to write-lol^^

lg
Ingo from germany

 

[mdavis228]

Yes, I do understand, and thanks for your input. I don't expect to re-invent the wheel by trying a different type of joint. It's just an opportunity to try something different, and do it on a cue that is being made to very discreet spec's based on a cue Lee & I already have had success with. If it seems to make no difference - that's something else to know.

 

[ARROWCRUSHER]

I Don't Like the hit of ss but with this combination of Ivory threaded over ss IMO you can't go wrong for playability not to hard and it's not to soft just a Smooth Hit That's just my opinion!!!

I just recieved my cue, made by Leon Sly, And it has this stainless steel joint with a ivory sleeve over it. I wasn't sure how I would like it but I can tell you with out a doubt from playing with it for about 15 to 20 hours now I absolutley love it. I can feel the solid hit of the cue ,I had it made with a 3/8x10 big pin because I like it better then the radials cue's I had it's different because it's not a thudding feel. I can make the cue ball do whatever I want to, it has great feedack and feel to each and every hit. Then the big plus of it is the ivory joint look also. I will post pictures of my new cue and be doing a reveiw on it as soon as my wife helps me post pictures :grin: <<YEP IM A PUTER DUMMY !!!<<<<ED

 

[mdavis228]

I'll look forward to seeing it!