State Open Tournaments?

[BilliardsAbout]

Another idea, which my group is split 50/50 on, is to break into flights of 16 players. This way, you can do a round robin with each player playing one game against every other player, alternating breaks. For example, if 2 pros hand 14 amateurs 2 losses each, the 14 amateurs would then only need to defeat fellow amateurs to advance!

 

[sparkle84]

Advance to what? If you are letting pros in then how would you know how many will enter?
Are you only going to let 8 in? What if 19 pros sign up?
If that happens, then no amateurs will sign up. You may want to think in a little more detail.

 

[sparkle84]

I'm also wondering if the other members of this "group" are privy to the info contained in this thread.

 

[lfigueroa]

He's been kinda short on specifics.

So far the only thing missing is the ballyhoo offering investors the chance to get in on this "great" opportunity.

Lou Figueroa

 

[garczar]

I know a guy who has finally made it to over 500 Fargo. He goes to weekly tournaments pays entry fee and just shoots balls around the table. If he draws a kid or a lady he always lets them win. However the dude plays good. Once in a while he will actually try and win the tournament. He probably plays close to 680 speed. I’ve known him since he was a kid and he used to win a lot of decent sized tournaments back before Fargo. Now he just tries to buy someone in the Calcutta and see if they can win.

A couple months we were at a tournament and he bought a guy in the Calcutta for a rather large amount. The guy went 2 and out, so the guy just put in some effort and went on to win the tournament himself to get his money back. I think most places around here that started to use Fargo have stopped using it again.

FR just got on an Okla. player for going two-n-out in 11 straight events. They wiped all his games and are not allowing four bars to report until things get straightened out. FR is not perfect but it works fine nearly all the time. Best rating system i've seen in 30+yrs.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Advance to what? If you are letting pros in then how would you know how many will enter?
Are you only going to let 8 in? What if 19 pros sign up?
If that happens, then no amateurs will sign up. You may want to think in a little more detail.

Look up the meaning of "for example," since I wrote that in the post you commented on.

The OP has 64 participants in a tournament. If we divide them into 4 groups of 16 for round robins, it would take a total of 480 games for each competitor to play against 15 others, resulting in 15 games per person.

If we then select the top 8 players for a playoff based on those 64 win-loss records, and 2 professionals with low Fargo ratings managed to get in, they could end up in the same bracket due to random drawing. This setup would still allow some amateurs to advance to the top 8, even from that bracket.

In contrast, double-elimination races-to-five require an average of 812 games to determine the top 8. The round robins I suggest eliminate the possibility of someone saying, "I played two pros in a row and went home, barely getting to play." I'm wanting to know if AZ'ers would enjoy a round robin.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

He's been kinda short on specifics.

So far the only thing missing is the ballyhoo offering investors the chance to get in on this "great" opportunity.

Lou Figueroa

I've provided many details, starting with the OP, and mentioned that I have a closed circle of investors.

I've also indicated that some aspects are still being considered, so I welcome input from AZB members.

 

[Ģüśţāṿ]

They do it for social reasons.

I went to once for APA masters. The only time I played league. Nobody would gamble at all except one guy. We murdered each other playing winner break 9 ball on Valleys...mostly 7 to 1 or 7 to 2. Switched to alternating break. We probably killed our own action if there was aby because people were definitely watching. Played 3 days and I came out a couple thousand ahead after playing dozens of sets.

I tried to get Jeanette Lee to play me one game of 8 ball for $100 and I even offerred the break. She declined. She was running a line of people for $20 signed pictures with Robin Dodson and her husband.

That's partially due to the fact that APA does not tolerate gambling at their events and will kick you out of the league if they find out. The solution is to gamble at local pool halls such a Griff's. There's always action going on at that place!

 

[iusedtoberich]

If open events work, they will only have big fields in very limited markets. Maybe Oscar's room on the West Coast is the only one I've heard of that consistently gets decent fields.

In the NorthEast, forget about it. Its a once a year type thing to get more than 25 players in a $100 entry open.

In Atlanta, forget about it. $60 entry with $2000 added are getting in the 30's.

 

[garczar]

I've provided many details, starting with the OP, and mentioned that I have a closed circle of investors.

I've also indicated that some aspects are still being considered, so I welcome input from AZB members.

Just my $.02 here but you need to sit down with your 'group' and come up with a tournament format. Then bring that format out for public scrutiny/feedback. Too much guessing/supposing as of yet.

 

[iusedtoberich]

You've got to be nuts to do this IMO. Joe Tucker mentioned before was also who I thought about when this thread started. He travelled up and down the East Coast for a full year before finally giving up. And that guy is very enthusiastic and a go-getter. If he couldn't do it, no one can.

The only way to do this is if you, and you alone, are a multi-millionaire. Hire staff to run the tour YOUR WAY. Pay them with your money. Pay the room owner/venue with your money to do what YOU say.

Get all your ducks in a row, then promote the hell out of it, and see who shows up to play.

A group of "friends" is a waste of time. All tire-kickers.

He who has the money makes the rules.

 

[David in FL]

If open events work, they will only have big fields in very limited markets. Maybe Oscar's room on the West Coast is the only one I've heard of that consistently gets decent fields.

In the NorthEast, forget about it. Its a once a year type thing to get more than 25 players in a $100 entry open.

In Atlanta, forget about it. $60 entry with $2000 added are getting in the 30's.

Yep.

We had a Predator Pro/am tour down here. It lasted a year or two. A couple of good events but anything more than one or two a year just couldn't draw enough to make it work.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Oh one other point, (maybe it was already mentioned).... holding back entry fee's for future events leads to problems, IMO.

I saw one TD in the Philly area do that for a year and then run off with the "season finale" money and donkey it off at the casino. I'm sure just about everyone in this thread has a similar story. Pool players all know this. Best to make each event its own money, IMO.

One other tour tried to do this that I recall. It was the N.U.T.S and I think it was about 2005. It tried to unify a few of the independent promoters, Like Zuglan and whoever was down South at that time. The idea was to collect a few bucks from each entry, that would fund an overall season end championship. There was no theft in this tour, but it never really got off the ground from what I recall. Maybe a couple of events.

Pool is an independent sport. Independent players. Independent promoters. Put the money on the light and play for it now. Not "here is a dollar, I'll come get it in 6 months at the yearly championship". (Well, except for league players, but they would not enter an open event if it was free).

 

[rharm]

FR just got on an Okla. player for going two-n-out in 11 straight events. They wiped all his games and are not allowing four bars to report until things get straightened out. FR is not perfect but it works fine nearly all the time. Best rating system i've seen in 30+yrs.

I really wish when FR finds players trying to manipulate their ratings like this that they would remove them from the FR system for a period of time. I think you'd see a lot less players doing this if they were pulled from the FR system and not allowed to enter any events that require a FR rating or robustness.

 

[garczar]

I really wish when FR finds players trying to manipulate their ratings like this that they would remove them from the FR system for a period of time. I think you'd see a lot less players doing this if they were pulled from the FR system and not allowed to enter any events that require a FR rating or robustness.

Its hard to do unless its so obvious like this. I know the guy they caught and he's a colossal nit. Slow play expert that no-one likes playing. Him and a couple others need to be axe'd. I let FR know about their antics.

 

[sparkle84]

The OP didn't even know Fargo existed or what playing the ghost was as little as two years ago. Now he wants to reinvent the wheel.
Again, you have to wonder about this group. If they read this thread would they still want to be involved? Not likely if they have half a brain.

 

[lfigueroa]

I've provided many details, starting with the OP, and mentioned that I have a closed circle of investors.

I've also indicated that some aspects are still being considered, so I welcome input from AZB members.

When I was speaking of a lack of specifics I was speaking to:

Who the members of "our group" are.

The unidentified "resources" that were at the ready.

The unknown amount of the thousands of dollars you have from unidentified sponsors.

The names of the pool rooms ready to host your events.

Who the experienced referees and TDs you have are.

The unknown size of the budget you say you have for websites, posters, trophies, etc.

Then there are the unknown friends, investors, and individuals supposedly willing to contribute cash and/or sponsor advertising.

And the unidentified fellow teachers, exhibitors, and room owners that are going to participate, not to mention the unidentified playing pros and friends that can get you thousands in cues and equipment.

Lou Figueroa

 

[garczar]

When I was speaking of a lack of specifics I was speaking to:

Who the members of "our group" are.

The unidentified "resources" that were at the ready.

The unknown amount of the thousands of dollars you have from unidentified sponsors.

The names of the pool rooms ready to host your events.

Who the experienced referees and TDs you have are.

The unknown size of the budget you say you have for websites, posters, trophies, etc.

Then there are the unknown friends, investors, and individuals supposedly willing to contribute cash and/or sponsor advertising.

And the unidentified fellow teachers, exhibitors, and room owners that are going to participate, not to mention the unidentified playing pros and friends that can get you thousands in cues and equipment.

Lou Figueroa

Remember this guy:

He's gonna run the 'Unknown Pool Tour'

 

[Black-Balled]

Oh one other point, (maybe it was already mentioned).... holding back entry fee's for future events leads to problems, IMO.

I saw one TD in the Philly area do that for a year and then run off with the "season finale" money and donkey it off at the casino. I'm sure just about everyone in this thread has a similar story. Pool players all know this. Best to make each event its own money, IMO.

One other tour tried to do this that I recall. It was the N.U.T.S and I think it was about 2005. It tried to unify a few of the independent promoters, Like Zuglan and whoever was down South at that time. The idea was to collect a few bucks from each entry, that would fund an overall season end championship. There was no theft in this tour, but it never really got off the ground from what I recall. Maybe a couple of events.

Pool is an independent sport. Independent players. Independent promoters. Put the money on the light and play for it now. Not "here is a dollar, I'll come get it in 6 months at the yearly championship". (Well, except for league players, but they would not enter an open event if it was free).

It was planet pool in the mid Atlantic/ NUTS

 

[garczar]

It was planet pool in the mid Atlantic/ NUTS

Yrs ago there was a big-for-the-time tourn here in Tulsa. Buddy, Grady, Medina, Fat Randy and a bunch of other top guys showed up Well, when it came time to whip the do-re-mi this cat named Lester, our vaunted TD, had swung with the cash. Yep. Got in the safe while the place was hoppin', grabbed his little tweaker coke whore and fled the scene. Never been heard from since.