Storing shafts and butts

[Dave38]

I am wondering as to the best way to store shaft dowels and butts that are in various stages of construction? I have seen cuebuilders websites showing them hanging and also in a storage cart standing upright. Which is the best, as I have had them hanging, but am running out of ceiling space, and the girlfriend won't let me hang them in her closet
Thanks,
Dave

 

[JoeyInCali]

Can of worms.
Hanging small end down, 50% humidity?

 

[Cue Crazy]

Yep It's probably a can of worms, but I also have Mine hanging from 5/8 cup hooks with the small end down.

 

[Dave38]

Yep It's probably a can of worms, but I also have Mine hanging from 5/8 cup hooks with the small end down.

Well, I was doing small end up. What's the advantage/disadvantage? I keep most of the wood in my basement, then take it out to the garage/shop, work it, then return it to the basement. Summer time it's around 70 degrees with around 60-65% humidity. Winter time 65 degrees with about 55% humidity. Summer time the shop is around 5 degress difference from the outside and the same humidity, winter I keep the heat at65 when in the shop, unless doing stain, or finish work, then I bump it up to aroun 75, humidity is low-45-50%. I live in the northeast, Mass. so the weather/temps are always changing with the seasons.
Dave

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

For over 20 years I've stored both my shafts & butts, small end up. The shafts I'm working on, are in 2 racks that hold about 140 each. The others are stored in the boxes they came in, standing on end, with the box top cut off. I have a LOT of wood for butts & they are stored on shelves, laying flat, with spacers between layers. When I start to turn them, they go in a rack, small end up, 100 to the rack. I don't know about Mass. ,but in my garage in Illinois the winter humidity gets below 10 %. I don't think the GARAGE SHOP Balabushka had in New York, had any humidity control at all. As for heat I don't know. I remember talking to Dennis Dieckman many years ago & he stored his shaft wood in an unheated garage, with no humidity controls...JER

 

[dzcues]

(skip) I don't think the GARAGE SHOP Balabushka had in New York, had any humidity control at all. As for heat I don't know. I remember talking to Dennis Dieckman many years ago & he stored his shaft wood in an unheated garage, with no humidity controls...JER

I agree that wood should be stored in real life conditions. If the wood remains straight in that environment, it should remain straight forever. It just doesn't make sense to store & machine your wood in a climate controlled room for a year or two or three, then expect it to maintain its straightness when it's finally exposed to the daily temperature & humidity fluctuations of the real world.

Just my opinion.

 

[cutter]

I agree that wood should be stored in real life conditions. If the wood remains straight in that environment, it should remain straight forever. It just doesn't make sense to store & machine your wood in a climate controlled room for a year or two or three, then expect it to maintain its straightness when it's finally exposed to the daily temperature & humidity fluctuations of the real world.

Just my opinion.

It might be just your opinion, but in my opinion, you are dead on. Maybe if we made our customers pledge to keep their cues in a controlled climate things would be different. Let's see, hot car trunk, Texas in September, you could call that controlled, controlled inferno!

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

I agree that wood should be stored in real life conditions. If the wood remains straight in that environment, it should remain straight forever. It just doesn't make sense to store & machine your wood in a climate controlled room for a year or two or three, then expect it to maintain its straightness when it's finally exposed to the daily temperature & humidity fluctuations of the real world.

Just my opinion.

Bob, I agree wholeheartedly...JER

 

[manwon]

It might be just your opinion, but in my opinion, you are dead on. Maybe if we made our customers pledge to keep their cues in a controlled climate things would be different. Let's see, hot car trunk, Texas in September, you could call that controlled, controlled inferno!

Tap Tap Tap!!!!!! Wood that has been soaked in wood stabilizer is also a common problem today. It inhibits the natural characteristics of the woods, and in medium to high heat (like car trunks in the summer) it tends to loose its ability to perform, thus war-page, and major expansion and contraction.

In my opinion there is nothing better than wood drying at a natural rate based upon the climate where it is located, as for humidity, anything below 50% seem to work fine

 

[JoeyInCali]

Tap Tap Tap!!!!!! Wood that has been soaked in wood stabilizer is also a common problem today. It inhibits the natural characteristics of the woods, and in medium to high heat (like car trunks in the summer) it tends to loose its ability to perform, thus war-page, and major expansion and contraction.

In my opinion there is nothing better than wood drying at a natural rate based upon the climate where it is located, as for humidity, anything below 50% seem to work fine

Wood stabilizer also kills the maker slowly but surely.
I agree with real world conditions except for the poor makers who are in the desert.

 

[qbilder]

Wood stabilizer also kills the maker slowly but surely.
I agree with real world conditions except for the poor makers who are in the desert.

You mean builders like me?

My shop in the high desert of New Mexico, and it gets very dry, then suddenly humid when clouds move in. It's a nightmare keeping things straight. I used to be in Alaska and i'd always hang stuff from the ceiling small end up. But here I began getting warpage issues that was costing me several more shafts than I was used to. I realized it was because the heat in the room accumulated at the ceiling, so the top of the shaft would be hot & the bottom cool. I bought some storage racks from Lowes & now hang everything at eye level & lower, so there's a constant temp over the entire stock rather than it having hot spots at the top. It tremendously cut down on warpage. Otherwise, real world for me, too. Nothing extreme. It stays 75 degrees in my shop year round, but humidity fluctuates.

 

[JoeyInCali]

You mean builders like me?

My shop in the high desert of New Mexico, and it gets very dry, then suddenly humid when clouds move in. It's a nightmare keeping things straight. I used to be in Alaska and i'd always hang stuff from the ceiling small end up. But here I began getting warpage issues that was costing me several more shafts than I was used to. I realized it was because the heat in the room accumulated at the ceiling, so the top of the shaft would be hot & the bottom cool. I bought some storage racks from Lowes & now hang everything at eye level & lower, so there's a constant temp over the entire stock rather than it having hot spots at the top. It tremendously cut down on warpage. Otherwise, real world for me, too. Nothing extreme. It stays 75 degrees in my shop year round, but humidity fluctuates.

You, SW and Dave B.
Here is SoCal like NOW, humidity can get down to 15% and below. It's brutal on wood of course. Hell, it's brutal on humans. It sure tests the wood if they'd go back to normal after conditions normalize.

 

[Dave38]

So far everything I've turned the first time that wasn't running true for the second cut was because I didn't index the piece before removing it from the lathe the first time. So I guess I haven't done that bad. But I'm really interested what will happen if I start to put my shafts in a 'shaft caddy' as some builders do? I like the idea of taking it off the lathe and putting it into a rack While I move onto the butt for the same cue and if I need to, a couple of weeks later, I can refer to the shaft that's only 4 steps away, rather than 90 or so, just to re-confirm the dia. of the joint. I'm concerned with the shaft laying to one side alittle, will cause a warp, that hanging would prevent. I'm still very new to this even though I have been doing repairs for 9-10 yrs, and researching cue building for almost the same amount. Thanks for all the advice on this guys, as always, your all a bunch of stand up people.
Someday, I hope to be able to do the same for someone else in the same situation as I am now

 

[georgeh]

So far everything I've turned the first time that wasn't running true for the second cut was because I didn't index the piece before removing it from the lathe the first time. So I guess I haven't done that bad. But I'm really interested what will happen if I start to put my shafts in a 'shaft caddy' as some builders do? I like the idea of taking it off the lathe and putting it into a rack While I move onto the butt for the same cue and if I need to, a couple of weeks later, I can refer to the shaft that's only 4 steps away, rather than 90 or so, just to re-confirm the dia. of the joint. I'm concerned with the shaft laying to one side alittle, will cause a warp, that hanging would prevent. I'm still very new to this even though I have been doing repairs for 9-10 yrs, and researching cue building for almost the same amount. Thanks for all the advice on this guys, as always, your all a bunch of stand up people.
Someday, I hope to be able to do the same for someone else in the same situation as I am now

something to consider, heat rises. In your shop, you have wood hanging from the ceiling, where it's warmer and could constantly act like a kiln, drying out the wood more than it should be. Just a thought. There are different opinions on both methods... racks seem better to me.

george

 

[Cue Crazy]

Well, I was doing small end up. What's the advantage/disadvantage? I keep most of the wood in my basement, then take it out to the garage/shop, work it, then return it to the basement. Summer time it's around 70 degrees with around 60-65% humidity. Winter time 65 degrees with about 55% humidity. Summer time the shop is around 5 degress difference from the outside and the same humidity, winter I keep the heat at65 when in the shop, unless doing stain, or finish work, then I bump it up to aroun 75, humidity is low-45-50%. I live in the northeast, Mass. so the weather/temps are always changing with the seasons.
Dave

I'm no shaft hanging expert at all, just the way I have hung them so far. I can't say there is advantage to the way I'm doing it, or that I will always stick to it, just the way I'm doing them now. Some could argue that a rack lets more natural movement occur, which in turn may allow for that to be cut out, I'm not really sure, but so far hanging seems to be working for me. I have considered building racks, just don't have the room for them right now

I'm not sporting any fancy climate control either. I live in fla, so humidity can really fluxtuate. It can go from dry seasons where our water tables get really low, and We're put on strict water restrictions, to really humid ones, with alot of rain like we are in right now.

Sometimes wood stays straight through the entire turning proccess, then some will have alittle movement showing each time I turn, until I get down to the last few turns when it decides to start holding. I guess I learn alot about any certain piece of wood By how much movement occurs between turns.

 

[billiardbum]

Storing my shafts

I agree that the climate in my shop should be like the elements the shaft will live in when it is put on a cue. I do not hang my shafts, I use rolling carts, which sit on the floor. I do not let my shop get over 50% humidity, which is controlled with a dehumidifier. The shafts are kept small end down in the carts, which are on my website. Once the turning of the shafts have begun, if they move between turnings, I mark them. Once they move the 2nd time, they are Pitched. No Nelsonite in my shop, but do dip my shafts in something that will not kill me . I do yield more shaft wood with using this method, than hanging them from my ceiling in the shop for sure. So I have switched, and if it works, leave it alone.

http://www.sicklescustomcues.com/shop_tour

 

[MVPCues]

I made a free standing rack for 1" dowels to rest in a long time before any turning. It seems to me the majority of movement of these dowels happened very close to the bottom. I don't know if it was temperature variation, or the fact the weight of the dowel itself was supported by the bottom end, creating some sort of stress point near the bottom. The next batch that comes in to rest in this rack before turning will have the ends switched periodically/midway before being turned. I would be curious to know if anyone else has noticed any such patterns to movement while standing in racks.

After turning, I am hanging them small end up. I can't remember for sure why (or from whom) I decided small end up. I have not seen any problems in the few I have hanging so far, but I have no strong feeling either way given no experience in comparing the two orientations.

Kelly

 

[billiardbum]

I made a free standing rack for 1" dowels to rest in a long time before any turning. It seems to me the majority of movement of these dowels happened very close to the bottom. I don't know if it was temperature variation, or the fact the weight of the dowel itself was supported by the bottom end, creating some sort of stress point near the bottom. The next batch that comes in to rest in this rack before turning will have the ends switched periodically/midway before being turned. I would be curious to know if anyone else has noticed any such patterns to movement while standing in racks.

After turning, I am hanging them small end up. I can't remember for sure why (or from whom) I decided small end up. I have not seen any problems in the few I have hanging so far, but I have no strong feeling either way given no experience in comparing the two orientations.

Kelly

Kelly,

When I did hang my shafts, I did hang them small end up. I was told by cuemakers the reasoning for both ways. My choice was to put them small end up, because that is where I wanted to insert my cup hook. Also I have noticed that if you store the shafts close to a wall, those shafts will more likely go out, and the ones towards the middle stay straight Sounds silly, but I believe it is because the temperature change here in Indiana. 70 one day, and 10 the next . I now keep them all in the center of my shop, and it yeilds more shafts I have never noticed one end or the other moving on me, I will try to notice that. It makes sense to me though, because your flooring will draw moisture as the wall will. Is your holder right on the floor, or is there clearance? Mine is about 6 inches off the floor, just curious. Very interesting though... My wood does not talk each other though, I have been to the shop late at night, and I do not hear anything

Jim

 

[MVPCues]

Kelly,

When I did hang my shafts, I did hang them small end up. I was told by cuemakers the reasoning for both ways. My choice was to put them small end up, because that is where I wanted to insert my cup hook. Also I have noticed that if you store the shafts close to a wall, those shafts will more likely go out, and the ones towards the middle stay straight Sounds silly, but I believe it is because the temperature change here in Indiana. 70 one day, and 10 the next . I now keep them all in the center of my shop, and it yeilds more shafts I have never noticed one end or the other moving on me, I will try to notice that. It makes sense to me though, because your flooring will draw moisture as the wall will. Is your holder right on the floor, or is there clearance? Mine is about 6 inches off the floor, just curious. Very interesting though... My wood does not talk each other though, I have been to the shop late at night, and I do not hear anything

Jim

My rack is converted metal frame storage shelving, 2' x 4', probably from Lowes. Three shelves made of cheap press board. The bottom shelf that the dowels stand on is 8 inches above the floor, which is concrete. The top and middle levels I drilled 1.25" holes, so the dowels stand straight up resting on the bottom shelf. My thinking was an intermediate free standing resting place to allow the dowels to do what they wanted after some natural climate changes, then turn and hang.

Kelly