Straight Pool Geeks - Your Chance to Shine

[Rod]

I think it depends on who's shooting. I like the 10 into the 12 first shot. As Danny suggests use top inside to bring the c/b towards center table. I really don't like outside even if I could hit the last two balls.

Either way your going to shoot a long shot. The 8 ball is a just make so that's not to bad. However the long break shot left by leaving the c/b in the rack, to me, is a little testy.

Rod

 

[sjm]

I think it depends on who's shooting. I like the 10 into the 12 first shot. As Danny suggests use top inside to bring the c/b towards center table. I really don't like outside even if I could hit the last two balls.

Either way your going to shoot a long shot. The 8 ball is a just make so that's not to bad. However the long break shot left by leaving the c/b in the rack, to me, is a little testy.

Rod

Was wondering where you were, Rod, you nearly always participate in my "how would you play this?" threads. As we've all learned, at least two good ways to skin this cat.

 

[sjm]

Well, as you always do, you guys have analyzed this position superbly. The creative problem solving inherent in straight pool is what has always fascinated me about the game.

Just a reminder to all that this was a position I myself encountered. You don't always have to go to a match between two world champions to find a thought-provoking position, and it is my intent to encourage others to post about interesting positions they themselves have faced in straight pool, nine ball, eight ball, or even one-pocket.

 

[Rod]

Just a reminder to all that this was a position I myself encountered.

SJM, I have a question. How did it happen that you encountered this layout? Was it left by your opponent? If so we just deal with it, as you did. If not, what got you there and how did the break shot turn out? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just curious how one ends up there if it was self induced. LOL Sometimes our circuit has a short, if so how did it happen? If it's to much trouble to lay out, I understand.

Rod

 

[sjm]

SJM, I have a question. How did it happen that you encountered this layout? Was it left by your opponent? If so we just deal with it, as you did. If not, what got you there and how did the break shot turn out? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just curious how one ends up there if it was self induced. LOL Sometimes our circuit has a short, if so how did it happen? If it's to much trouble to lay out, I understand.

Rod

Hey, Rod. My opponent left me this position. I was at 93 needing seven and I got out of the rack using the approach described by Williebetmore. I made the break shot and ran the game out. Seven and out!

 

[Snapshot9]

Imo...

Shoot the 8, draw back, shoot the 12, bring cue around to shoot the 10,
and position the cue about 2 feet up table from where it started from
before you started shooting....... then rack'em and shoot the 1 down corner
and bring cue off the rail to smack the rack.

Nudging!! That's okay IF you get the cue in PINPOINT position to do that,
but if you don't then you are f**ked. I would use the KISS method that
I described above.

 

[Williebetmore]

Shoot the 8, draw back, shoot the 12, bring cue around to shoot the 10,
and position the cue about 2 feet up table from where it started from
before you started shooting....... then rack'em and shoot the 1 down corner
and bring cue off the rail to smack the rack.

Nudging!! That's okay IF you get the cue in PINPOINT position to do that,
but if you don't then you are f**ked. I would use the KISS method that
I described above.

Scott,
Actually the "nudging" method IS the simple method (at least it is if you play a lot of straight pool - this type of layout occurs very frequently, it is extremely common to have to manufacture break shots in this manner) - it should be quite an easy task. The position is extremely easy to obtain (if you are an accomplished "slow roller"), and the predictability of the "nudge" is very high - as mentioned, the only difficult part of the sequence is the subsequent break shot with ball in hand in the kitchen.

I personally would never purposely leave a break shot on the one - it is WAY TOO HIGH for me to ever get into the pack with good results. To get into the rack off the one with any force would require getting PERFECT position on the one, just the kind of pinpoint requirement I try to avoid.

P.S. - I wouldn't presume to speak for Danny DiLiberto, but I think I can guarantee he would salivate at the chance of gambling with a straight pool player who couldn't accomplish the "nudging" sequence above at least 80% of the time - it is the meat and potatoes of the straight pool crowd - it is a prime example of why the "slow rollers" can stomp non-believers at 14.1. Put the "slow roller" within a couple of feet of the one ball with a shallow angle, and he will roll it into good position for the "nudge" almost every time (and the subsequent slow rolling nudge is fairly easy) - it is not difficult with practice. My growing suspicion is that SJM is quite the accomplished "slow roller", I'm going to definitely need some serious weight from him when we match up.

 

[Danny Harriman]

Hey Jude

I like your option also it is probably as good as mine but as I said I'm very comfortable with behind the rack break shots, you obviously are well versed on the rules and I don't think your inexperience shows by your answer. I just like taking care of that break ball earlier than you, just for the sake of curiosity whats your high run?

 

[Williebetmore]

P.S. - I should have added that guys that shoot like Danny Harriman can do whatever they like - they have a MUCH higher chance of successfully completing whatever sequence they choose. Schmucks like me have to pick the very simplest/highest percentage layout, as it is our only chance of continuing our run.

One of my greatest pool memories is the Schmidt/Pagulayan straight pool match at DCC 2 years ago. Pagulayan played the worst patterns imaginable in most racks - up and down the table, long shot after long shot - but he just didn't miss very often, and usually ended up with a break shot - I wish I could shoot as straight as he does.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I like your option also it is probably as good as mine but as I said I'm very comfortable with behind the rack break shots, you obviously are well versed on the rules and I don't think your inexperience shows by your answer. I just like taking care of that break ball earlier than you, just for the sake of curiosity whats your high run?

I see exactly what you mean about addressing the break ball as early as possible and it's not that I'm uncomfortable with behind-the-rack breakshots. I'm simply not terribly accustomed to creating them, if that makes sense. For whatever reason, I only bump balls into side-rack positions. That's not by choice, I'm just being truthful about my own game.

My high-run is 64 which I'm very pleased with though I'm certain if I spent as much time playing straight pool as I do 9-ball, it'd be better. What's yours?

 

[frankncali]

My high-run is 64 which I'm very pleased with though I'm certain if I spent as much time playing straight pool as I do 9-ball, it'd be better. What's yours?

Not Danny but I will GUESS 312

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Not Danny but I will GUESS 312

Oh, I'm certain based on what I know of Danny, he's at least a 200-ball runner. 300-ball runners are actually quite rare nowadays. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying it's quite a feat if he is.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Oh, I'm certain based on what I know of Danny, he's at least a 200-ball runner. 300-ball runners are actually quite rare nowadays. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying it's quite a feat if he is.

In another thread, I think the offensive straight pool thread, Danny said that his high run was over 300. I don't remember the exact number but it is there if you want to look!

 

[frankncali]

Oh, I'm certain based on what I know of Danny, he's at least a 200-ball runner. 300-ball runners are actually quite rare nowadays. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying it's quite a feat if he is.

My 312 GUESS was based on his first post in this thread when he stated that
his high run was 312


I am going to play a little more straight pool in the future as practice and am going to be shooting for his 312
Maybe I better shoot for 50 then 75 then 100

 

[sjm]

I like your option also it is probably as good as mine but as I said I'm very comfortable with behind the rack break shots, you obviously are well versed on the rules and I don't think your inexperience shows by your answer. I just like taking care of that break ball earlier than you, just for the sake of curiosity whats your high run?

Mr. Harriman, I'm well acquainted with your level of excellence, and yes, my high run is only one third of yours, but I disagree with you on both points you make.

In a vacuum, I agree that it's better to create a break ball sooner than later and I also agree that there's nothing conceptually problemmatic with behind-the-rack break shots.

Still, a higher priority than both of these is to try to leave a break shot that gives you a good attack angle into the pack and also a relaistic chance to control the cue ball off of the pack. My concern here is that, in this layout, manufacturing a break ball below the pack will probably leave it below the center of the pack, forcing you to run the cue ball firmly into the third ball in the back row. This is undesirable in terms of both the attack angle and the chance to control the path of the cue ball, explaining why you rarely see a top straight pool player settle for this angle on a break shot.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't much care for the break shot below if I'm faced with it, and would much prefer ball in hand in the kitchen and a standard break shot, giving me a far greater chance to control both the attack angle into the pack and the path of the cue ball coming off of the rack.

 

[Blackjack]

Mr. Harriman, I'm well acquainted with your level of excellence, and yes, my high run is only one third of yours, but I disagree with you on both points you make.

In a vacuum, I agree that it's better to create a break ball sooner than later and I also agree that there's nothing conceptually problemmatic with behind-the-rack break shots.

Still, a higher priority than both of these is to try to leave a break shot that gives you a good attack angle into the pack and also a relaistic chance to control the cue ball off of the pack. My concern here is that, in this layout, manufacturing a break ball below the pack will probably leave it below the center of the pack, forcing you to run the cue ball firmly into the third ball in the back row. This is undesirable in terms of both the attack angle and the chance to control the path of the cue ball, explaining why you rarely see a top straight pool player settle for this angle on a break shot.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't much care for the break shot below if I'm faced with it, and would much prefer ball in hand in the kitchen and a standard break shot, giving me a far greater chance to control both the attack angle into the pack and the path of the cue ball coming off of the rack.

SJM,
About 6 months ago I posted a diagram of a similar break shot (behind the rack) and several people wrote me back saying how it was not a very good option. I disagree. Sometimes you have very little choice, and this will be your only option. It is all a matter of preference, and my advice would be to practice these break shots because you never know when they might come into play. Just like Danny, I am more than comfortable with these shots, therefore it expands my break shot options, which can lead to higher runs. (Mine is 212). Opting for the standard break shot is an option, but I wish I had a dime for everytime my opponent called a ball out of the pack (makes it)and ran 50-60 balls because I decided to play it conservatively.

 

[sjm]

SJM,
About 6 months ago I posted a diagram of a similar break shot (behind the rack) and several people wrote me back saying how it was not a very good option. I disagree. Sometimes you have very little choice, and this will be your only option. It is all a matter of preference, and my advice would be to practice these break shots because you never know when they might come into play. Just like Danny, I am more than comfortable with these shots, therefore it expands my break shot options, which can lead to higher runs. (Mine is 212). Opting for the standard break shot is an option, but I wish I had a dime for everytime my opponent called a ball out of the pack (makes it)and ran 50-60 balls because I decided to play it conservatively.

Hi, Dave, hope you're well. I concur that behind the rack break shots are important and should be practiced, but find that the behind the rack breakshot into the third ball of the back row should be avoided when there are other options. In the position presented, there are, so I'll take the standard break shot from the kitchen. As you say, though, you don't aways have another option.

Far more important than all of this is that I think it's great what you're trying to do for our fellow poster and truly magnificent player Danny Harriman. I hope the end result will be Danny's return to his arena of excellence.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Play the ten and bump the twelve ball down two inches below the rack, I like behind the rack break shots. We would then want to pocket the eight and then try to get almost straight in for the one, when addresing the one make sure that you use top english so you can fall below the twelve.

I agree that this is the best sequence. Nudging the 12 ball after making the 10 will almost guarantee a good break shot from behind the rack, as long as it stays below the rack. Where the 12 ends up would dictate where the cueball needs to be rolled after making the 1 ball.

Doc

 

[Williebetmore]

Just an experimental observation, for those of us who play at less than Danny H.'s speed (I think that includes almost all of us). As my coach always insists, when there is controversy, just set up the shot/layout and try both sequences 10 times - which I have just completed. Using the "nudge the 10 out on the last shot" method (ending up with cue ball in hand, shooting the 10 for the break) I completed the sequence 9 times in 10 tries. Using the alternative method of Danny's (ending with the 12 below the rack breaker) I had a good break shot only 3 out of 10 times. The main problem was getting the 12 into good position while pocketing the 10 - I believe the distance and direction the 12 has to travel is fairly difficult to control (as opposed to nudging out the 10 which seems relatively easy to control). Just my 2 cents. Anyone else get similar results (only slow rollers need reply - I'm not sure how anyone plays straights without this technique)????

P.S. - I did not try making the 10 ball break shot, I didn't want the forum to know how bad I truly am.

 

[pete lafond]

SJM,
About 6 months ago I posted a diagram of a similar break shot (behind the rack) and several people wrote me back saying how it was not a very good option. I disagree. Sometimes you have very little choice, and this will be your only option. It is all a matter of preference, and my advice would be to practice these break shots because you never know when they might come into play. Just like Danny, I am more than comfortable with these shots, therefore it expands my break shot options, which can lead to higher runs. (Mine is 212). Opting for the standard break shot is an option, but I wish I had a dime for everytime my opponent called a ball out of the pack (makes it)and ran 50-60 balls because I decided to play it conservatively.

Actually, this behind the rack break shot is a pretty good one. High left hand english and the ball will travel three short rails and almost alway have a selection in shots afterwards. Correct?

Although, because it is late in the rack, I would opt to shoot the 8, then 1 and it should be fairly easy just to slightly kick the 10 ball towards the side rail when playing the 12. I am not looking for a break shot of the 10 into the pack, rather a shot on the 10, hit the side rail come back and hit the top of the pack lightly. The only thing that would change here is if position on the 12 allowed me to push the 10 out and keep the cue ball in the rack. For me this is a more comfortable way of playing the pattern.