Stroke question

[greyghost]

vikings of the gulf understand

 

[greyghost]

Nobody told me anything. I learn by myself.

What exactly is this "group" ?

I don't know what you are talking about. I am no part of any group.

And what does "half an offset" mean ? Pls don't think I'm trolling.

lol....

group tubing.....

22.5 is half of 45 degrees which is the mark for a typical offset in agroup tubing union bank.

i'm an instrumentation safety systems specialist in the gulf of mexico....one of my skills is a master pipe/tubing fitting.....tho thats the easy part and monkeys like to brag whos best or fastest lol....but cant do any troubleshooting or logic work. i pick on newbs in the biz and yak about magic numbers and magic tape measures.

was just being silly

 

[ps611846]

lol....

group tubing.....

22.5 is half of 45 degrees which is the mark for a typical offset in agroup tubing union bank.

i'm an instrumentation safety systems specialist in the gulf of mexico....one of my skills is a master pipe/tubing fitting.....tho thats the easy part and monkeys like to brag whos best or fastest lol....but cant do any troubleshooting or logic work. i pick on newbs in the biz and yak about magic numbers and magic tape measures.

was just being silly

Thank God.......

For a moment, I thought we could discuss on this subject...... :wink:

 

[greyghost]

Thank God.......

For a moment, I thought we could discuss on this subject...... :wink:

honestly.....i'm a way better artistic bender and faster than most out there when i have to do that monkey stuff.....

and i've always stated out right.....its because of my pool playing and pattern recognition skills...

just how i pick apart a one hole rack or some bb 8 ball or 14/1.....i see the route.....

somethings i do seem totally nuts to guys out there but when i'm done they scratch their heads......not unlike how we all are to a degree on here.


billiards and pocket billiards are art just the same

 

[greyghost]

what you must think about your lord english and his quiet eye stuff from geno then

hehaw

just like your so called ld shooting method....which is a system....not a method

i didnt mean "quiet eye" with geno....total brain fart....geno is perfect aim and not related what so ever.....sorry about this, just realized my wrong choice of nomenclature

goig back and editing this so no one is confused.....but this post reply will show my messup so no one can try and start no hog wash.....cant remember the last time i put names to wrong things like that.

 

[AtLarge]

... If you see a player undercutting back cuts, that's ok. It doesn't have to do with fundamentals. Has to do with perception. The eyes must move into the shot in a different way. ...

I'd appreciate learning what you mean by the last sentence I quoted.

 

[LAMas]

(you have your moments....but your no english by any means)

you couldn't shoot that shot much less very close quarter shots that arn't back cuts where you cant see pocket if you could not see the edges.....

i have one particular shot that i show to many.....to help them stay sharp or to scare the chit out of people....depending on which side of the bed i wake up on....

CB in corner pocket.....ob directly in front of it on short rail...one balls width off side rail.....from the center diamond, all the way up to a the next diamond.....illl cut that white betch in the side eyes closed.....daintily all gorgeous like....so special english....ob just rolls....sits on the edge, sees the bottom of the pocket. had a massive heart attack, then falls over dead into the sarlacc monster waiting to digest it over 10000 years in the side pocket.

contact to contact is and has been gaining popularit for many years as a aim style......i wonder if such has occurred with the propesity of more video game pool playing, wth the visual being flat 2d images, in which contact to contact makes the most sense, so does "ghost" ball.

ghost ball imop is strangehere and there because of perception, it works mathematically on paper......CTE doesn't......but imop cte takes into account for this perception and the propensity also for optical illusions we encounter constantly in he game because we are dealing with spheres. Because of this....we are dealing with an infinite quantity of 'points' or at leat 360xx360 degrees....as opposed to 360 which would be found in 2d views.....which is why i find close quater shots being made by standing tall and birdseye viewing the shot is the proper course for such shots.........

ask scott about a few of such shots i made on him last time he came visit, and played positon.....if he had had to fart at the moment he woulda made a rosebud lol! thank goodness i hadn't made really spicy food

wouldn't ya agree Scott lol....

Bolded is correct.

CP2CP is geometrically correct if you overcome CIT (that thickens the angle)...with a touch of outside english (TOO) or top or draw.

Be well.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I agree with Bert Kinister. I'm not sure I agree with you about what good fundamentals are, though. 99% of top players drop their elbow, there has to be good reason for this. Not only do they do that on hard shots, but on some soft shots as well. Most top players shoot follow shots with their tip finishing slightly up compared to tip contact, not digging down as a pendulum motion would have you do.That shouldn't be even a bit controversial to say, even if it is on this forum.

A lot of people say that Efren has a "wonky" or "weird" stroke. I disagree. I think his stroke is a very beautiful and effective one, and it's not that complicated to try this stroke either. The key is to let the cue go. The cue is an inanimate object, once set in motion it goes straigth unless forces act upon it. Why even try to micro-manage it? Let the cues straight motion guide your stroke, instead of the other way around. Just imagine you are "throwing" the cue through the ball with a loose grip. The rest will take care of itself if you are reasonably well lined up. If you watch an Efren video you will see his fingers come off the cue almost completely on delivery. When you "throw" the cue this way, it wants to go straight and it's very hard to screw that up. The cue delivery on a center ball shot is straight and level, which is what we all want. That is not to say that you can't work on alignment with this stroke, but it is completely different from what is being commonly taught, yet it is brutally effective and relatively easy to learn.

When you start freezing your joints in place, rigidly guiding the cue, that's when you are in serious danger of messing up. Combining that with digging the tip into the cloth on shots etc is not the way to go, which is why so few people are doing it.

The PBIA or whomever teaches a pendulum stroke may help a lot of people that way, but please don't pretend that everyone who doesn't do this is an ignorant yokel who doesn't know any better.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

Raather well said, Sir.

 

[ENGLISH!]

So I don't know the inner workings of the pendulum stroke, eh? LOL, I guess I'm the ignorant yokel, huh? I was introduced to the pendulum stroke very early as part of learning snooker. I found it very unnatural and counter productive for me. I'm aware of the fact that you can manipulate the hands and wrists to get a more level cue action, using a fixed elbow. I just don't see how that is any better or less complex than a normal cue action. And if you don't do this, you WILL dig your tip into the cloth with a pendulum stroke, assuming of course a normal angle of the cue at impact, it's just the nature of the beast.

Anyway, those people teaching no elbow drop, are they misinformed? Depends on what you mean by that. Are they out of touch with what nearly every pro is doing? IMO, yes they are. One day I'd like to see a statistic of some sort, not just a few randomly selected individuals but a really large list of pros, short stops, and A+ players the world over. I think it would be pretty conclusive in favor of the elbow drop. Why is that, do you think? Please don't say because of ignorance. I think the actual ignorant people are the ones casually dismissing the aquired knowledge of people devoting their life to the game.

People who teach a pendulum swing have a system in their teaching, built on a philosophy of "fewest possible moving parts", with which I am in near total disagreement. Humans are not robots, and our muscles are not built for this kind of movement. We are built for flowing motions, not rigid back and forth, using only a pair of muscles. This creates a very unnatural feeling stroke and movement of this sort is likely to cause discomfort and even injuries. Luckily the pool cue is so light that injuries are unlikely in our sport, but it is not out of the question if you do this kind of thing every day for decades. No other athlete uses this principle apart from maybe marksmen, but they don't have to propel their projectile with their muscles.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

Again... rather well stated, Sir.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Straightpool_99 !!!!

Do you give credit to this guy's comments ?

Do you think he is open minded and has knowledge of the game ?

He is a master in attacking other members and trying to make them look stupid in other member's eyes. Really bad behavior.

I agree 100% with what you say about the pool stroke.

----------:thumbup2:----------------

Well said, Sir.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes there are some women who play complete textbook snooker fundamentals, but very, very few men.The power stroke, IMO is the test of any stroke. Who cares what you do on a 2 diamond straight in stop shot on a pool table. I can do one of those one handed, standing on one leg and I bet you can too. The actual stroke starts to become A LOT more important when you have to put a little force/spin on the ball.

The elbow drop is not an anomaly or some sort of afterthought. It's a natural part of a power stroke. You will notice that on all of the shots in the video, the elbow dropped in a natural, unforced way as part of the stroke.

-----------------:thumbup2:----------------

 

[ENGLISH!]

Someone mentioned pitchers as being analogous to pool players that use a pendulum stroke. If it were true that pitchers were concerned with having the fewest moving parts as possible they would all toss the ball underhanded.

-------------------:thumbup2:-------------

And the elbow is moving throughout, in one manner or another & goes from a 'closed' angle to an 'extended angle' or straight with a "follow through" even after that.

 

[ENGLISH!]

First of all you have to find you "Vision Center".

The master "BeiberLvr" can help you with this. You will need some special equipment, but that's ok......

Smart people like "BeiberLvr" are the reason why pool in the U.S is getting better and better.......

"Vision Center" my friend....

You seem to have forgotten to put this in green text to make it clear that it is being said sarcastically.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

Do half of you morons actually contribute anything to anyone on here or is it get in a thread and pick on people because you think you're existence or length of time on AZ makes you important? I'm headed to go watch re-runs of "Keeping up with the Kardashians" where I hope to see much, much less drama.

 

[ENGLISH!]

and a big problem many encounter using the piston style stroke that aren't pros.....a huge affliction.....

is it can lift you out your stance during delievery if the hands too tight on the grip......its a fact.

which can destroy any high or low placement the tip will be on the cb....the same exact thing that the piston fundamentalist states they do better than a pendulum stroker (excluding grey area)

even tho English tries to say that the piston keeps him straight left and right on the ball on delivery....which has never been debated here because thats preposterous, as neither stroke gets you better on the ball left or right.........techinally you could say theres a larger margin for error in a pendulum becuse of less moving parts and muscular influence, but even disregarding that....at best they are equal left and right.....

Like so many of your cohorts you attempt to put words in my mouth that I never said. Do they teach that in 'pool school'?

The piston is way more straight in the up & down direction than the "pendulum swing" & THAT is where the greater margin for error is at.

Just like in nearly all other sports that hitting a ball is involved, one strives or should be striving for the longest distance of straight travel of the implement being used to 'hit' the ball.

One does NOT move in a "V" shape where the change of direction is at a single solitary point or over just a few points.

One should move the implement more like a "U" with as long of a flat straight traveling 'bottom' between the change of direction & for Pool that can actually be a virtually completely straight motion with NO up or down but instead with a very long straight line motion.

All Best Wishes for ALL.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Simply because our bodies don't work the way you evidently think they do. When you flex your biceps in a natural arm movement, causing the lower arm to swing, it is natural for the upper arm to move (causing elbow drop when in a pool stance). It takes "effort" for this not to happen. The upper arm movement gives extra momentum to the forarm, adding power with little perceived muscular effort.

------------------:thumbup2:------------------------

 

[ENGLISH!]

stop flexing your bicep by making a fist.......

magic

also funny how if someone does a stroke motion standing straight up that elbow doesnt fly out and up lol

Wrong.

What you call 'stroke motion' is a swing & NOT a "stroke motion".

Move the cue on its linear line & NOT in a curved arch & the elbow will move... & it will do so NATURALLY.

Best Wishes for ALL.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You are telling me that when you swing your forarm in a relaxed manner (standing upright), with a relaxed hand, the upper arm doesn't follow a little bit, causing elbow movement? Wow..

The simple fact of the matter is that 'they' are not concerned with the truth.

They are full of confirmation bias & as such constantly leave out matters & parameters when speaking the cookie cutter kool aid talk.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I was amazed first time I saw it 20+ years ago and don't think I've seen anyone else use that stroke since. I think he was trusting his bridge positioning... as for how he controlled the CB with that short jab, that's hard to grasp. Even some power shots off that 4 inch back swing that were impressive.

Hi Colin,

How have you been?

There is a lot of power in just the wrist & fingers.

CJ talked about it when he was still here.

All Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

 

[greyghost]

Bolded is correct.

CP2CP is geometrically correct if you overcome CIT (that thickens the angle)...with a touch of outside english (TOO) or top or draw.

Be well.

its also the nuts with SAM.....but i'm not talking about a person Ed.:wink:

regards,
G.G.