My stroke is straight from start to finish. Everybody can get one. More important than having a straight stroke is knowing how to recognize when it isn't and correct your position accordingly. The technique I teach to beginners is a constant feedback/correction process. Once you can feel your cue travels perfectly straight with no tension in your shooting arm, you can hit the ball at any speed, with any sort of crazy stroke length, and arrive at the object ball dead on no matter what.
Stroking Straight
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
- Start date
More details about the "curled pinky" technique
Hey there Joey!
Thanks -- I hope my explanation of the technique was clear / easy to understand. It was actually the Laser Stroke that pointed out to me, in a way I could certainly not deny, that my stroke was diverting or hooking to the right. After analysis as to why, and slow-motion stroking with the LaserStroke installed, I'd found that it was the heel of my hand "bumping" into the cue during the final delivery stroke with the cue ball (the "bump" happened just a split second before contact with the cue ball, so this was definitely NOT a case of "the cue ball doesn't care what happens to the cue 'after' contact").
I got a couple PMs about this technique, and although I always respond to PMs, I wanted to elaborate a bit based on some questions I got, in the hopes it helps others.
First, after you curl the pinky completely up, let it rest against the outside edge of your cue (i.e. the side of the cue facing outwards from your body). Don't tense it; just curl it up and let the flat surface of your pinky's fingernail rest against the wrap of the cue.
Then, forget your pinky's even there. Focus instead on the feel of your cue in the remaining fingers (index, middle, ring + thumb). Again, forget about that pinky -- it's doing its job as a space governor, pulling the heel of your hand away from the cue enough for a completely unobstructed follow-through whether you realize it or not. (If you focus on the feeling of the pinky instead of the first three fingers, this technique will feel completely unnatural and you'll abandon it quickly.) Imagine your hand only has the thumb plus the three fingers (index, middle, ring), and focus on the feeling of the cue in those fingers.
After you get the hang of this technique, you'll find you can relax the hand enough to even incorporate a snap of the wrist. This is where I'm at with the technique now; my technique is mainly a pendulum stroke (very minimal elbow drop), but with a loose wrist -- much of the velocity of the stroke comes from a "flick" of the wrist following through right at the contact time of the cue tip to the cue ball.
In fact, on very short strokes (e.g. where the cue ball is very close to the object ball, and I have to "choke" the stroke so as to avoid fouling from a double-hit), I use just the wrist, engaging the following muscles, which are the same muscles used when you wave your hand in a "hello" motion:
Lateral group of antibrachial muscles:
+ brachio radialis
+ flexor pollicis longus
+ extensor carpi radialis longus
+ extensor carpi radialis brevis
Hope that's helpful!
-Sean
P.S. to Joey -- will you be at S.B.E.?
I've never heard anyone discuss the curled pinky with that much detail. Thanks. I'm going to give it a try based upon your details. I even like the laser device idea but I'll try anything to help my game.
The straighter the stroke, the better the consistency of play, imo. None of the pros stroke perfectly straight on every shot but most try to, except for maybe Ismael Paez.
JoeyA
Hey there Joey!
Thanks -- I hope my explanation of the technique was clear / easy to understand. It was actually the Laser Stroke that pointed out to me, in a way I could certainly not deny, that my stroke was diverting or hooking to the right. After analysis as to why, and slow-motion stroking with the LaserStroke installed, I'd found that it was the heel of my hand "bumping" into the cue during the final delivery stroke with the cue ball (the "bump" happened just a split second before contact with the cue ball, so this was definitely NOT a case of "the cue ball doesn't care what happens to the cue 'after' contact").
I got a couple PMs about this technique, and although I always respond to PMs, I wanted to elaborate a bit based on some questions I got, in the hopes it helps others.
First, after you curl the pinky completely up, let it rest against the outside edge of your cue (i.e. the side of the cue facing outwards from your body). Don't tense it; just curl it up and let the flat surface of your pinky's fingernail rest against the wrap of the cue.
Then, forget your pinky's even there. Focus instead on the feel of your cue in the remaining fingers (index, middle, ring + thumb). Again, forget about that pinky -- it's doing its job as a space governor, pulling the heel of your hand away from the cue enough for a completely unobstructed follow-through whether you realize it or not. (If you focus on the feeling of the pinky instead of the first three fingers, this technique will feel completely unnatural and you'll abandon it quickly.) Imagine your hand only has the thumb plus the three fingers (index, middle, ring), and focus on the feeling of the cue in those fingers.
After you get the hang of this technique, you'll find you can relax the hand enough to even incorporate a snap of the wrist. This is where I'm at with the technique now; my technique is mainly a pendulum stroke (very minimal elbow drop), but with a loose wrist -- much of the velocity of the stroke comes from a "flick" of the wrist following through right at the contact time of the cue tip to the cue ball.
In fact, on very short strokes (e.g. where the cue ball is very close to the object ball, and I have to "choke" the stroke so as to avoid fouling from a double-hit), I use just the wrist, engaging the following muscles, which are the same muscles used when you wave your hand in a "hello" motion:
Lateral group of antibrachial muscles:
+ brachio radialis
+ flexor pollicis longus
+ extensor carpi radialis longus
+ extensor carpi radialis brevis
Hope that's helpful!
-Sean
P.S. to Joey -- will you be at S.B.E.?
It's all Sean's fault!!
Sean,
I use the presidential and pageant queen wave. When I tried a shot like I was waving I hit three people with my cue and two more called me Vincent!
On the other hand I just left the pool hall and JoeyA is shooting with his little finger curled up. At first I thought he was suffering from arthritis or etiquette but it turns out that is your doing too.
You just never know the things you can cause down in New Orleans with these posts!
Hu
Sean,
I use the presidential and pageant queen wave. When I tried a shot like I was waving I hit three people with my cue and two more called me Vincent!
On the other hand I just left the pool hall and JoeyA is shooting with his little finger curled up. At first I thought he was suffering from arthritis or etiquette but it turns out that is your doing too.
You just never know the things you can cause down in New Orleans with these posts!
Hu
Hey there Joey!
Thanks -- I hope my explanation of the technique was clear / easy to understand. It was actually the Laser Stroke that pointed out to me, in a way I could certainly not deny, that my stroke was diverting or hooking to the right. After analysis as to why, and slow-motion stroking with the LaserStroke installed, I'd found that it was the heel of my hand "bumping" into the cue during the final delivery stroke with the cue ball (the "bump" happened just a split second before contact with the cue ball, so this was definitely NOT a case of "the cue ball doesn't care what happens to the cue 'after' contact").
I got a couple PMs about this technique, and although I always respond to PMs, I wanted to elaborate a bit based on some questions I got, in the hopes it helps others.
First, after you curl the pinky completely up, let it rest against the outside edge of your cue (i.e. the side of the cue facing outwards from your body). Don't tense it; just curl it up and let the flat surface of your pinky's fingernail rest against the wrap of the cue.
Then, forget your pinky's even there. Focus instead on the feel of your cue in the remaining fingers (index, middle, ring + thumb). Again, forget about that pinky -- it's doing its job as a space governor, pulling the heel of your hand away from the cue enough for a completely unobstructed follow-through whether you realize it or not. (If you focus on the feeling of the pinky instead of the first three fingers, this technique will feel completely unnatural and you'll abandon it quickly.) Imagine your hand only has the thumb plus the three fingers (index, middle, ring), and focus on the feeling of the cue in those fingers.
After you get the hang of this technique, you'll find you can relax the hand enough to even incorporate a snap of the wrist. This is where I'm at with the technique now; my technique is mainly a pendulum stroke (very minimal elbow drop), but with a loose wrist -- much of the velocity of the stroke comes from a "flick" of the wrist following through right at the contact time of the cue tip to the cue ball.
In fact, on very short strokes (e.g. where the cue ball is very close to the object ball, and I have to "choke" the stroke so as to avoid fouling from a double-hit), I use just the wrist, engaging the following muscles, which are the same muscles used when you wave your hand in a "hello" motion:
Lateral group of antibrachial muscles:
+ brachio radialis
+ flexor pollicis longus
+ extensor carpi radialis longus
+ extensor carpi radialis brevis
Hope that's helpful!
-Sean
P.S. to Joey -- will you be at S.B.E.?
I've never heard anyone discuss the curled pinky with that much detail. Thanks. I'm going to give it a try based upon your details. I even like the laser device idea but I'll try anything to help my game.
The straighter the stroke, the better the consistency of play, imo. None of the pros stroke perfectly straight on every shot but most try to, except for maybe Ismael Paez.
JoeyA
Morro actually has a very straight stroke, if you watch closely, his stroke is dead straight the split second before he lifts up. Actually, nowadays he doesn't lift up as much so it's easier to see.
I remember years ago I would always do different drills trying to stroke perfectly straight. The straighter I would try to stroke, the worse I would miss.
One day, a guy named Randy Fry (RIP) saw me going crazy while I was stroking in a mirror at the pool hall...vigorously trying to fix a tiny hitch in my stroke. He took a long drag from his Marlboro and said, "Dave, wtf are you doing?"
I said, "I'm trying to stroke straight."
He took another long drag and said, "Here's a clue for your non-playing ass: nobody strokes PERFECTLY straight so stop trying. Learn to identify the stroke that comes most natural to you (no matter how crooked) and learn how to PLAY that imperfect stroke."
That was almost 12 years ago and I remember it like yesterday. I don't think I really understood what he was talking about until just a few years ago when I saw a Jack Nicklaus interview on the golf channel.
He was asked about "working the ball" and if he tried to fade or draw every single approach shot to the green. His answer was that for every full-swing approach shot, he always brought the shot in from one side or another. The interviewer said, "Why don't you ever go straight at the pin" to which Nicklaus replied, "Because I don't swing straight. I can swing crooked 100% of the time and I can only swing perfectly straight if I'm lucky with the swing. Therefore, my % is increased when I adjust my aim and cut across the ball and let the ball fade to the stick."
After watching the top pros over the years, I've never seen anyone stroke on a "laser line" through the CB. Given, some stroke really well - but none are on a true line. I think "straight" is a relative term. "Straight enough" is more like it. It's like a cop giving you a ticket for going through the stop sign when you think you stopped (rolling stop). You thought you stopped enough but apparently there was motion to the tires.
I can stroke berserkly straight with a laser pointer and a target because each stroke gives you visual feedback to which you're making instant corrections; however, at a table-- you don't have the heads-up display.
I've never given much credence to coke-bottle drills because I can stroke through the hole (without touching the sides) crookedly - so I didn't know what I was really practicing.
The bottom line is those of us who play pretty decent stroke straight enough to run out well. How straight? Really doesn't matter--it's all in how you play and what comes natural. For me, my tip dips slightly to the left and there's no fixing it because that's how my body is built. I've just learned to make the adjustment when I address the CB. That, paired with what some would call dynamic BHE (I swoop). I know I can swoop 100% of the time and stroke perfectly straight maybe 5%. Learning how to stroke crookedly WELL was way easier than trying to stroke perfectly.
Anyways, that's my take on the subject. I'm sure guys like Sean (sfleinen) stroke super well - but I'd bet it's not STRAIGHT. It's straight enough to make anything on the table, I'm sure.
Lots of things mitigate stroke imperfections and sometimes make them disappear altogether - pivoting being the main one, in my humble opinion.
One day, a guy named Randy Fry (RIP) saw me going crazy while I was stroking in a mirror at the pool hall...vigorously trying to fix a tiny hitch in my stroke. He took a long drag from his Marlboro and said, "Dave, wtf are you doing?"
I said, "I'm trying to stroke straight."
He took another long drag and said, "Here's a clue for your non-playing ass: nobody strokes PERFECTLY straight so stop trying. Learn to identify the stroke that comes most natural to you (no matter how crooked) and learn how to PLAY that imperfect stroke."
That was almost 12 years ago and I remember it like yesterday. I don't think I really understood what he was talking about until just a few years ago when I saw a Jack Nicklaus interview on the golf channel.
He was asked about "working the ball" and if he tried to fade or draw every single approach shot to the green. His answer was that for every full-swing approach shot, he always brought the shot in from one side or another. The interviewer said, "Why don't you ever go straight at the pin" to which Nicklaus replied, "Because I don't swing straight. I can swing crooked 100% of the time and I can only swing perfectly straight if I'm lucky with the swing. Therefore, my % is increased when I adjust my aim and cut across the ball and let the ball fade to the stick."
After watching the top pros over the years, I've never seen anyone stroke on a "laser line" through the CB. Given, some stroke really well - but none are on a true line. I think "straight" is a relative term. "Straight enough" is more like it. It's like a cop giving you a ticket for going through the stop sign when you think you stopped (rolling stop). You thought you stopped enough but apparently there was motion to the tires.
I can stroke berserkly straight with a laser pointer and a target because each stroke gives you visual feedback to which you're making instant corrections; however, at a table-- you don't have the heads-up display.
I've never given much credence to coke-bottle drills because I can stroke through the hole (without touching the sides) crookedly - so I didn't know what I was really practicing.
The bottom line is those of us who play pretty decent stroke straight enough to run out well. How straight? Really doesn't matter--it's all in how you play and what comes natural. For me, my tip dips slightly to the left and there's no fixing it because that's how my body is built. I've just learned to make the adjustment when I address the CB. That, paired with what some would call dynamic BHE (I swoop). I know I can swoop 100% of the time and stroke perfectly straight maybe 5%. Learning how to stroke crookedly WELL was way easier than trying to stroke perfectly.
Anyways, that's my take on the subject. I'm sure guys like Sean (sfleinen) stroke super well - but I'd bet it's not STRAIGHT. It's straight enough to make anything on the table, I'm sure.
Lots of things mitigate stroke imperfections and sometimes make them disappear altogether - pivoting being the main one, in my humble opinion.
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We're not machines -- "straight enough" is the key for a human pool player
Dave:
First, GREAT POST! One thing you get across very clearly, and perhaps was lost in my synopsis, is that we're HUMAN BEINGS, not machines. There's no such thing as a perfectly straight stroke executed by a human; it's physically impossible, unless we wear some kind of exoskeleton that guides our muscles and joints to machine-like precision.
So by definition, yes, you're correct -- NOONE has a "perfectly straight" stroke. I think what we stroke enthusiasts strive for (whether we want to admit it or not), is, as you say, a "straight enough" stroke. Sure, I may strive for machine-like precision when I'm practicing with the LaserStroke and playing with different grips, but when I get to the table, the best I can hope for is "straight enough" to make the ball. We strive to get our stroke mechanics to the point where they are repeatably "straight enough" to instill confidence that when I'm looking down the cue and aiming, that cue ball is going to end up where I'm aiming. This is very hard to do if one doesn't have a "straight enough" stroke, or, a stroke where the peculiarities are well-known and accommodated / compensated for.
What's really interesting about us human species, is how different we all are. When playing pool, I personally have no problems or issues with aiming -- aiming is second nature to me because of great 3D spacial perception. What my problem traditionally had been, was my ability to deliver the cue ball to that spot! Before I made significant stride in my stroke mechanics (and associated ratchets up in play), I would miss the shot, and I'd visually see I did NOT hit the object ball where I'd aimed. I'd ask myself, "how did I do THAT?!? How was I that far off from where I was aiming? What went wrong?" I knew it was physical -- something in my stroke mechanics was breaking down. So I worked long and hard on stroke mechanics, and this has GREATLY affected my game for the better.
Other people might not have a problem with stroke mechanics, and instead focus their energies on aiming techniques. Or they might not have a problem with either aiming or stroke mechanics, but instead have a problem with underhitting/overhitting the cue ball, and might focus their efforts on "feel" and cue ball control. Or... you get the idea. Some of us instinctively know what we're weak in, and, if put our pride aside, we automatically work on those things to become a better player.
Other folks, however, don't instinctively know, and those are the folks that benefit greatly from lessons. (However, I add a footnote to that, and will say that we all can benefit from lessons, if we open our minds and put any pride issues aside. We don't know what we don't know, and we don't know that we don't know it.
)
I also agree that the "stroking through the neck of a bottle" technique probably has a limited audience as to the benefits. If you have a natural piston stroke, a la Luca Brecel or Xiao Ting Pan, then fine -- because the cue is moving in a piston-like / solenoid-like action, stroking through the neck of a bottle makes sense. But what happens if one has a natural up and down / pump / locomotive stroke (e.g. Mika Immonen)? Trying that type of stroke through the neck of a bottle would result in the cue crashing into the top and bottom inside surfaces of the bottle's neck. A worthless exercise for this type of stroke! A better exercise for making sure that there's no sideways "yaw" in this type of stroke, would be practicing between two tall wooden blocks on the table, set such that there's only a couple millimeters clearance on either side of the cue between the blocks, and practice stroking between those blocks. (This would allow free space above and below the cue to allow the movement of the pump / locomotive stroke.)
And, concerning "accepting" the sideways yaw / hooks / crooks / hitches in one's own stroke, that's going to entail a subscription to the "Million Ball March" -- it's going to entail a lot of practice to become very intimate with one's hitchy stroke, to know how to compensate for it.
So the question really becomes:
* Do I strive to remove the hitches in my stroke, so that when I aim, I don't have to compensate -- where I'm pointing the cue, is where the cue ball is going to go?
--OR--
* Do I accept my hitchy stroke as-is, and learn to compensate for it by practicing the Million Ball March?
It's a personal decision that can only be made by the player. What counts, is that the stroke is repeatable, and can be relied upon (without conscious thought) in the heat of a match.
-Sean
Dave:
First, GREAT POST! One thing you get across very clearly, and perhaps was lost in my synopsis, is that we're HUMAN BEINGS, not machines. There's no such thing as a perfectly straight stroke executed by a human; it's physically impossible, unless we wear some kind of exoskeleton that guides our muscles and joints to machine-like precision.
So by definition, yes, you're correct -- NOONE has a "perfectly straight" stroke. I think what we stroke enthusiasts strive for (whether we want to admit it or not), is, as you say, a "straight enough" stroke. Sure, I may strive for machine-like precision when I'm practicing with the LaserStroke and playing with different grips, but when I get to the table, the best I can hope for is "straight enough" to make the ball. We strive to get our stroke mechanics to the point where they are repeatably "straight enough" to instill confidence that when I'm looking down the cue and aiming, that cue ball is going to end up where I'm aiming. This is very hard to do if one doesn't have a "straight enough" stroke, or, a stroke where the peculiarities are well-known and accommodated / compensated for.
What's really interesting about us human species, is how different we all are. When playing pool, I personally have no problems or issues with aiming -- aiming is second nature to me because of great 3D spacial perception. What my problem traditionally had been, was my ability to deliver the cue ball to that spot! Before I made significant stride in my stroke mechanics (and associated ratchets up in play), I would miss the shot, and I'd visually see I did NOT hit the object ball where I'd aimed. I'd ask myself, "how did I do THAT?!? How was I that far off from where I was aiming? What went wrong?" I knew it was physical -- something in my stroke mechanics was breaking down. So I worked long and hard on stroke mechanics, and this has GREATLY affected my game for the better.
Other people might not have a problem with stroke mechanics, and instead focus their energies on aiming techniques. Or they might not have a problem with either aiming or stroke mechanics, but instead have a problem with underhitting/overhitting the cue ball, and might focus their efforts on "feel" and cue ball control. Or... you get the idea. Some of us instinctively know what we're weak in, and, if put our pride aside, we automatically work on those things to become a better player.
Other folks, however, don't instinctively know, and those are the folks that benefit greatly from lessons. (However, I add a footnote to that, and will say that we all can benefit from lessons, if we open our minds and put any pride issues aside. We don't know what we don't know, and we don't know that we don't know it.
)I also agree that the "stroking through the neck of a bottle" technique probably has a limited audience as to the benefits. If you have a natural piston stroke, a la Luca Brecel or Xiao Ting Pan, then fine -- because the cue is moving in a piston-like / solenoid-like action, stroking through the neck of a bottle makes sense. But what happens if one has a natural up and down / pump / locomotive stroke (e.g. Mika Immonen)? Trying that type of stroke through the neck of a bottle would result in the cue crashing into the top and bottom inside surfaces of the bottle's neck. A worthless exercise for this type of stroke! A better exercise for making sure that there's no sideways "yaw" in this type of stroke, would be practicing between two tall wooden blocks on the table, set such that there's only a couple millimeters clearance on either side of the cue between the blocks, and practice stroking between those blocks. (This would allow free space above and below the cue to allow the movement of the pump / locomotive stroke.)
And, concerning "accepting" the sideways yaw / hooks / crooks / hitches in one's own stroke, that's going to entail a subscription to the "Million Ball March" -- it's going to entail a lot of practice to become very intimate with one's hitchy stroke, to know how to compensate for it.
So the question really becomes:
* Do I strive to remove the hitches in my stroke, so that when I aim, I don't have to compensate -- where I'm pointing the cue, is where the cue ball is going to go?
--OR--
* Do I accept my hitchy stroke as-is, and learn to compensate for it by practicing the Million Ball March?
It's a personal decision that can only be made by the player. What counts, is that the stroke is repeatable, and can be relied upon (without conscious thought) in the heat of a match.
-Sean
Sean,
I use the presidential and pageant queen wave. When I tried a shot like I was waving I hit three people with my cue and two more called me Vincent!
On the other hand I just left the pool hall and JoeyA is shooting with his little finger curled up. At first I thought he was suffering from arthritis or etiquette but it turns out that is your doing too.
You just never know the things you can cause down in New Orleans with these posts!
Hu
Hey Vin... I mean, Hu! That was a funny post. Gotta watch that "wave" action with the cue -- otherwise we'll have to start calling you "tsunami stroke!"
I hope the info was helpful, and gave folks something "new" to try, with [hopefully] added benefit. So did Joey whoop on folks with the curled pinky?
If he did, "it's all my fault!" If he didn't, umm... I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any posts I'd created that described the technique...
Thanks for the snicker!
-Sean
I think he's trying to twist the CB. Strange but if any of you have seen T.C.M, you know who has the craziest back hand in the world.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't believe in the million ball march thing. I'm also in the minority in thinking that playing imperfections will shorten the learning curve and not prolong it.
Pool is very philosophical in regards to technique. For me, pivoting isn't about aiming, it's about playing. It's a discipline - not unlike BJJ is discipline of MMA. I don't pivot because I have aiming issues; I pivot so I don't have to worry about aiming at all. Most of my energy is wasted focusing on where exactly I'm hitting the CB and the speed of my stroke.
Sean - I'm looking forward to sweating your matches at the SBE. Good luck in the pro event.
Pool is very philosophical in regards to technique. For me, pivoting isn't about aiming, it's about playing. It's a discipline - not unlike BJJ is discipline of MMA. I don't pivot because I have aiming issues; I pivot so I don't have to worry about aiming at all. Most of my energy is wasted focusing on where exactly I'm hitting the CB and the speed of my stroke.
Sean - I'm looking forward to sweating your matches at the SBE. Good luck in the pro event.
That pinky thing
I tried that this afternoon and after awhile I started to straighten out my stroking without being mechanical. It works for me! So, I stopped doing it and noticed my stroke was still pretty good. Every once in a while my crook returned and I went to ninja pinky for a couple of shots until I felt back on track.
I'm going to try this for a week or two to ingrain the movement, get some muscle memory. To me that was one hell of a good tip. Thanks a bunch! If you guys haven't tried it yet, don't laugh. It works.:thumbup:
I tried that this afternoon and after awhile I started to straighten out my stroking without being mechanical. It works for me! So, I stopped doing it and noticed my stroke was still pretty good. Every once in a while my crook returned and I went to ninja pinky for a couple of shots until I felt back on track.
I'm going to try this for a week or two to ingrain the movement, get some muscle memory. To me that was one hell of a good tip. Thanks a bunch! If you guys haven't tried it yet, don't laugh. It works.:thumbup:
learned a long time ago
I learned a long time ago not to laugh at anything Sean suggests. I tried the curled pinky thing awhile back after Sean talked about it. Seemed like I didn't have that particular issue with or without the finger curled so I moved on. My grip does cause a little steering but it is way late near the end of the follow through long after the cue ball is gone.
Hu
I learned a long time ago not to laugh at anything Sean suggests. I tried the curled pinky thing awhile back after Sean talked about it. Seemed like I didn't have that particular issue with or without the finger curled so I moved on. My grip does cause a little steering but it is way late near the end of the follow through long after the cue ball is gone.
Hu
I have both problems. My backstroke hooks behind my back and my finish goes left and right. The crooked finish is from not setting up correctly with a pre-shot routine and actually looking at my target before I get down. I attribute this bad habit to being in strange locations trying to make a living, but not looking like you can play. If you stroked smoothly or looked like you knew anything the money dried up. So, I learned to walk up, take one stroke, fire and jump up like an idiot.:frown:
I am now unlearning these bad habits. I just started playing again after 20 years away from the game and the crooked stroke has to go. I remember you said you had problems with your grip because of your big meats from the work you've done. That hit home with me. It takes me an hour to loosen up my hand and wrist before I start to run out. Man, is it frustrating!
This pinky thing forces my hand not to clench and pull my stroke behind my back. I stroke straighter and can't strangle the cue anymore. Make sense? I guess I'll see what happens.
Start listening to Rush Limbaugh...that should offset any left leaning tendencies! :wink:
Steve
been there
Funny, we have much in common. I quit for twenty years too and I took some care not to dry up the money years ago also. The key to a correct set up is stepping into the shot and the funny thing is that I learned that clowning when I was fifteen. I played speed pool before there was such a thing. It actually does wonders for your stance, or did for mine.
If your stroke is too long you will hook at the back of it, probably the front too. We simply run out of range of movement straight back and forth. If we insist in moving further we have to curve. I have worked to move my back hand a little closer towards the middle of the grip area but I shot just fine for years with it far back on the stick.
I hit balls for three hours today. At the end of that time I couldn't tell you what grip or stroke I used for a single shot, if I dropped my elbow, or how I aimed shots. The results on the table were pretty satisfying.
Hu
Funny, we have much in common. I quit for twenty years too and I took some care not to dry up the money years ago also. The key to a correct set up is stepping into the shot and the funny thing is that I learned that clowning when I was fifteen. I played speed pool before there was such a thing. It actually does wonders for your stance, or did for mine.
If your stroke is too long you will hook at the back of it, probably the front too. We simply run out of range of movement straight back and forth. If we insist in moving further we have to curve. I have worked to move my back hand a little closer towards the middle of the grip area but I shot just fine for years with it far back on the stick.
I hit balls for three hours today. At the end of that time I couldn't tell you what grip or stroke I used for a single shot, if I dropped my elbow, or how I aimed shots. The results on the table were pretty satisfying.
Hu
The argument of whether or not one's stroke is straight or not is specious, in the sense that what's really important is consistency. If you can repeatedly shoot the same shot over and over accurately with a crooked arm, or with a curving stroke, don't change a thing. However, my own experience tells me that very few players can play well like that.
I have done extensive research on the subject with my doctor and with my kinesiologist, for my own sake, and because I'm currently developing an electronic training device to help my students.
I'd like to share with you what I have discovered, maybe it'll help someone. Bear in mind that I am not a great player by any stretch of imagination, so I have no credentials to tell anybody what they should do, but I think my fundamentals are solid.
First of all, everybody is different. It may sound obvious, but it is worth repeating. Therefore, there is no "do this" method that will work for everybody. The method I have developed, that I am building the training device for, is a "meta-method". That is, it is a method to help players develop their very own training method. It is a method to make you discover how your own body works, find what works for you, and ultimately become your very own pool teacher.
It is not an easy method to follow, but it works great with those of my students who care to work with it. For many months, they have to work on the faith that I'm right, that they shouldn't give up when their game falls in the gutter, and that they shouldn't listen to people who give cheap advices like "tighten your grip, you'll shoot lights out".
Okay, so here is what I teach my students:
Firstly, what you want is consistency. It doesn't matter if you miss half of your shots, as long as you always miss the same way. If you consistently make the same mistakes, then you can work on improving them. If your performances over time yo-yo, then one of the variables in your "body equation" is floating and you'll never be able to solve the entire equation.
What is this "body equation" you're trying to solve? well, you're trying to get your body, which is soft flesh and bones and constantly evolving as you age, workout, grow... into achieving a movement that are is more suited to a machine: make your cue move like a piston rod so you can hit a small target (the cueball), while positioning your eyes properly over the cue so you can line up that small target with an even smaller one (the object ball). A machine is rigid, and the designer of a hypothetical pool robot just has to program the right coordinates and shoot away. Your body is not rigid, nature didn't design it for that kind of task, so it introduces a lot of extraneous noises in that simple system.
The hit of the cue tip on the cueball is almost instantaneous, so if you can hit the right spot on the cueball with the cue lined up right at the right moment, it shouldn't matter if the cue travels crooked before or after the hit. However, you can rarely achieve a consistent hit with a crooked stroke. So you need as straight a stroke as possible (eliminate one "floating variable" in the equation).
Also, the balls are bound vertically by the table below them, and by gravity. So if you hit less consistently vertically, it doesn't matter as much as hitting consistently horizontally. Therefore, you need to make your cue travel not along a line, but within a plane, which is a lot simpler (one less "floating variable").
Your shooting forearm is a lever: everything above the elbow (arm, shoulder, entire body) should stay very still, and everything below it also (wrist, hand, fingers). The elbow is one of the simplest joint in the human body, as it only has one degree of freedom (while not strictly true, it is true enough for our purpose), so you need to take advantage of it by putting only the elbow in motion during your stroke (one less variable). The point of the method is to help you find the plane the elbow joint naturally travels in, and make that plane parallel to the plane of the shot.
Unfortunately, the human brain works against you: when a human performs a simple task like moving an object in a straight line, the entire body is subconsciously coordinated to make this happen. While this is good enough for many tasks, it is not good enough for pool playing. Subconsciously, if you play without knowing what to do, your brain will try to drive forearm, arm and shoulder muscles to achieve a smooth movement in your fingers. It works beautifully, as it allows bangers to pocket balls, but you want to do better than that and learn to mentally disassociate your elbow movements from the rest of your body, otherwise there are way too many variables in your body equation.
Also, the elbow joint is an imperfect mechanical joint for our purpose: it joints the arm bone (humerus) to two forearm bones (ulna and radius). The ulna and radius can twist with respect to each other, which allow the wrist to rotate. The wrist rotation angle changes the elbow plane slightly, which is called the "carrying angle", and allows the forearm to move away from the hips when human walks upright, so the arms don't bang on the hips when we walk. That is however an additional problem to play pool.
Furthermore, the motive power of the shot, the biceps, is attached to the radius, not the ulna. Again, bad luck for pool players: depending on the wrist rotation, the biceps pulls more or less away from the elbow plane, modifying it yet again.
You can test how marvelously the human brain automatically corrects all these mechanical aberrations by constantly and precisely adjusting muscle tension here and there: hold your right arm straight, put your left hand on your right biceps, and twist your right hand as if you were turning a knob: you will feel the biceps tense up and relax just to maintain the movement you impose on your hand and compensate the carrying angle, all that subconsciously! Marvelous isn't it? and disastrous for our game of pool...
Putting it all together:
So when you play pool, you will teach your brain to fight the urge to compensate for the imperfect mechanical setup of your elbow, and position your body to achieve the best "natural" elbow position. That's the position in which, if you leave your arm dangling, the elbow travels in the plane of the shot, and when you make your biceps work to shoot, it doesn't modify the elbow plane appreciably. You will learn to feel when you're "all good": it's a powerful feeling, that's when you know the shot will go in no matter what, but it takes time to get there. Also, YOU will have to determine your own way to get there, I can only give you hints.
Most importantly, you need feedback. You need to be able to "listen" to your arm, to detect tension in the shoulder or in the forearm, and you need to be able to detect when your cue doesn't travel straight. Both of these skills are hard to get, but they are the basis of this method. Once you can evaluate those two informations, you'll be able to apply corrections. That's the difference between this method and getting a lesson with an instructor: when you can't evaluate yourself, you need someone to do it for you (video evaluation, trainer's advice). My method teaches you to do it yourself all the time and make that an automatism.
How to "listen" to your arm: get down on the shot like you normally would, and once you think you're good, let your shooting forearm dangle. Be honest with yourself and really let everything loose. Your brain constantly tries to tells you you're nice and loose, while auto-correcting your position with various muscles. That's what usually leads to cases of "chicken wing" arms. You really need to pretend your shooting arms is paralyzed. Once you manage to convince your brain to "let go", your cue will likely veer wildly inward or outward. Feel how your arm feels in that situation for as long as you can, then do it again, in various shooting positions. It is not as easy as it sounds to really let your arm go loose. The difficulty of course is that you need to grip the cue and stabilize your shoulder at the same time, so you need to target mentally which exact muscles to relax, and not the others.
How to see if your cue travels straight: forget about your arm for a moment. Get down on the shot and take a few stroke, only swinging your forearm and not moving your shoulder or wrist. Watch carefully your shaft at the back of your stroke: the shaft rises up toward your eyes. That's when you'll see if your stroke veers sideways or not: you'll see the shaft rise up not in the center, but to the side. It's not very easy to see, but it's there. If you play with your head higher, watch the shaft at the bottom of the stroke against features on the cloth or the rail. Again, not easy to see, but quite detectable with a little practice. If you can't see it, try crooking your arm or introducing a really obvious defect in your arm position, then reduce the defect to train yourself to see it.
Now then, the hard part: how to approach the shot and taking practice strokes, reading your body and your cue, and correcting things as you go along:
Standing up, let your entire shooting arm loose alongside your body, adopt your final (light) grip right now, keep the cue horizontal, support the shaft with your bridge hand but be very careful of making your bridge hand follow the shaft horizontally where your shooting arm naturally wants to pull the cue, and not forcing the cue sideways with it, then line up the shot by positioning your feet properly.
Then, slowly get down on the shot until your cue almost hits the rail (shooting arm still entirely limp) and your bridge hand lands on the table. Depending on your height, this will happen very quickly.
Then, and that's the hard part, start going down all the way, and constantly concentrate on letting your shooting forearm VERY loose and dangling. Your arm will start to rotate at the shoulder and at the elbow to keep the cue at playing height while the rest of your body descends on the shot. It is VERY important to constantly check that your forearm is loose: your brain will automatically start to tense muscles up here and there to maintain the cue position, but you need to fight the urge and instead, correct the rest of your body (bridge arm, back, hips, neck) and "wrap" around the cue + dangling shooting arm system. Do this slowly and pay attention only to the loose forearm.
At some point, depending on your height, you'll feel that you can't go any lower without tensing up. If you're tall like I am, you'll manage to put your head a foot above the cue, no less. If you're short, you'll go down all the way. If you're tall and feel the need to go lower, work on your neck. You may also feel more comfortable if your head is higher: whatever your preference, at some point you need to arrive at your best height for that particular shot with your forearm completely dangling.
At this point, your shooting arm's elbow joint works in its natural, unloaded plane, and that plane is pretty close to the plan the cue should travel in for a successful shot. But it's not good enough yet.
Now you need to make the arm muscles work to make the shot. Take a few strokes and watch your cue as I explained above: unless you're lucky, you'll see it travel slightly "in a circle" horizontally. Pay attention, it's not very obvious. Then adjust the loaded elbow plane. You have several options, and that depends on your own body, so YOU need to figure it out: rotate your upper body slightly, pull your shooting shoulder backward (this one works great for me, I have wide shoulder and it pulls the entire arm inward), rotate your hips slightly, and finally (but as a last resort), rotate your shooting wrist slightly. Remember, you need to do these corrections AND feel your shooting arm is still loose, AND watch your shaft. This is hard, and only you can feel it and know what to correct. At no point should you feel uncomfortable, or stretched to the limit anywhere. If you are, start over, something isn't right.
When you finally hit the "magic" position, you should feel your cue is very light, your stroke seems to work perfectly. At this point, do a quick check that you still have no tension in your shooting arm, then concentrate on your stroke. Think "move only the forearm", concentrate on accelerating during the final stroke, and on follow-through. If you're truly in the right position, this will seem very easy, and the shot will go in without effort.
You'll need to work a long time until all this becomes second nature. Sorry, no magic bullet. The biggest mistake is thinking that you are in the right position when you really aren't. Then you'll think all I've said is BS. Don't give up and try harder: the right position is hard to find, really, but once you have it, it makes everything so easy it's not even funny.
I have done extensive research on the subject with my doctor and with my kinesiologist, for my own sake, and because I'm currently developing an electronic training device to help my students.
I'd like to share with you what I have discovered, maybe it'll help someone. Bear in mind that I am not a great player by any stretch of imagination, so I have no credentials to tell anybody what they should do, but I think my fundamentals are solid.
First of all, everybody is different. It may sound obvious, but it is worth repeating. Therefore, there is no "do this" method that will work for everybody. The method I have developed, that I am building the training device for, is a "meta-method". That is, it is a method to help players develop their very own training method. It is a method to make you discover how your own body works, find what works for you, and ultimately become your very own pool teacher.
It is not an easy method to follow, but it works great with those of my students who care to work with it. For many months, they have to work on the faith that I'm right, that they shouldn't give up when their game falls in the gutter, and that they shouldn't listen to people who give cheap advices like "tighten your grip, you'll shoot lights out".
Okay, so here is what I teach my students:
Firstly, what you want is consistency. It doesn't matter if you miss half of your shots, as long as you always miss the same way. If you consistently make the same mistakes, then you can work on improving them. If your performances over time yo-yo, then one of the variables in your "body equation" is floating and you'll never be able to solve the entire equation.
What is this "body equation" you're trying to solve? well, you're trying to get your body, which is soft flesh and bones and constantly evolving as you age, workout, grow... into achieving a movement that are is more suited to a machine: make your cue move like a piston rod so you can hit a small target (the cueball), while positioning your eyes properly over the cue so you can line up that small target with an even smaller one (the object ball). A machine is rigid, and the designer of a hypothetical pool robot just has to program the right coordinates and shoot away. Your body is not rigid, nature didn't design it for that kind of task, so it introduces a lot of extraneous noises in that simple system.
The hit of the cue tip on the cueball is almost instantaneous, so if you can hit the right spot on the cueball with the cue lined up right at the right moment, it shouldn't matter if the cue travels crooked before or after the hit. However, you can rarely achieve a consistent hit with a crooked stroke. So you need as straight a stroke as possible (eliminate one "floating variable" in the equation).
Also, the balls are bound vertically by the table below them, and by gravity. So if you hit less consistently vertically, it doesn't matter as much as hitting consistently horizontally. Therefore, you need to make your cue travel not along a line, but within a plane, which is a lot simpler (one less "floating variable").
Your shooting forearm is a lever: everything above the elbow (arm, shoulder, entire body) should stay very still, and everything below it also (wrist, hand, fingers). The elbow is one of the simplest joint in the human body, as it only has one degree of freedom (while not strictly true, it is true enough for our purpose), so you need to take advantage of it by putting only the elbow in motion during your stroke (one less variable). The point of the method is to help you find the plane the elbow joint naturally travels in, and make that plane parallel to the plane of the shot.
Unfortunately, the human brain works against you: when a human performs a simple task like moving an object in a straight line, the entire body is subconsciously coordinated to make this happen. While this is good enough for many tasks, it is not good enough for pool playing. Subconsciously, if you play without knowing what to do, your brain will try to drive forearm, arm and shoulder muscles to achieve a smooth movement in your fingers. It works beautifully, as it allows bangers to pocket balls, but you want to do better than that and learn to mentally disassociate your elbow movements from the rest of your body, otherwise there are way too many variables in your body equation.
Also, the elbow joint is an imperfect mechanical joint for our purpose: it joints the arm bone (humerus) to two forearm bones (ulna and radius). The ulna and radius can twist with respect to each other, which allow the wrist to rotate. The wrist rotation angle changes the elbow plane slightly, which is called the "carrying angle", and allows the forearm to move away from the hips when human walks upright, so the arms don't bang on the hips when we walk. That is however an additional problem to play pool.
Furthermore, the motive power of the shot, the biceps, is attached to the radius, not the ulna. Again, bad luck for pool players: depending on the wrist rotation, the biceps pulls more or less away from the elbow plane, modifying it yet again.
You can test how marvelously the human brain automatically corrects all these mechanical aberrations by constantly and precisely adjusting muscle tension here and there: hold your right arm straight, put your left hand on your right biceps, and twist your right hand as if you were turning a knob: you will feel the biceps tense up and relax just to maintain the movement you impose on your hand and compensate the carrying angle, all that subconsciously! Marvelous isn't it? and disastrous for our game of pool...
Putting it all together:
So when you play pool, you will teach your brain to fight the urge to compensate for the imperfect mechanical setup of your elbow, and position your body to achieve the best "natural" elbow position. That's the position in which, if you leave your arm dangling, the elbow travels in the plane of the shot, and when you make your biceps work to shoot, it doesn't modify the elbow plane appreciably. You will learn to feel when you're "all good": it's a powerful feeling, that's when you know the shot will go in no matter what, but it takes time to get there. Also, YOU will have to determine your own way to get there, I can only give you hints.
Most importantly, you need feedback. You need to be able to "listen" to your arm, to detect tension in the shoulder or in the forearm, and you need to be able to detect when your cue doesn't travel straight. Both of these skills are hard to get, but they are the basis of this method. Once you can evaluate those two informations, you'll be able to apply corrections. That's the difference between this method and getting a lesson with an instructor: when you can't evaluate yourself, you need someone to do it for you (video evaluation, trainer's advice). My method teaches you to do it yourself all the time and make that an automatism.
How to "listen" to your arm: get down on the shot like you normally would, and once you think you're good, let your shooting forearm dangle. Be honest with yourself and really let everything loose. Your brain constantly tries to tells you you're nice and loose, while auto-correcting your position with various muscles. That's what usually leads to cases of "chicken wing" arms. You really need to pretend your shooting arms is paralyzed. Once you manage to convince your brain to "let go", your cue will likely veer wildly inward or outward. Feel how your arm feels in that situation for as long as you can, then do it again, in various shooting positions. It is not as easy as it sounds to really let your arm go loose. The difficulty of course is that you need to grip the cue and stabilize your shoulder at the same time, so you need to target mentally which exact muscles to relax, and not the others.
How to see if your cue travels straight: forget about your arm for a moment. Get down on the shot and take a few stroke, only swinging your forearm and not moving your shoulder or wrist. Watch carefully your shaft at the back of your stroke: the shaft rises up toward your eyes. That's when you'll see if your stroke veers sideways or not: you'll see the shaft rise up not in the center, but to the side. It's not very easy to see, but it's there. If you play with your head higher, watch the shaft at the bottom of the stroke against features on the cloth or the rail. Again, not easy to see, but quite detectable with a little practice. If you can't see it, try crooking your arm or introducing a really obvious defect in your arm position, then reduce the defect to train yourself to see it.
Now then, the hard part: how to approach the shot and taking practice strokes, reading your body and your cue, and correcting things as you go along:
Standing up, let your entire shooting arm loose alongside your body, adopt your final (light) grip right now, keep the cue horizontal, support the shaft with your bridge hand but be very careful of making your bridge hand follow the shaft horizontally where your shooting arm naturally wants to pull the cue, and not forcing the cue sideways with it, then line up the shot by positioning your feet properly.
Then, slowly get down on the shot until your cue almost hits the rail (shooting arm still entirely limp) and your bridge hand lands on the table. Depending on your height, this will happen very quickly.
Then, and that's the hard part, start going down all the way, and constantly concentrate on letting your shooting forearm VERY loose and dangling. Your arm will start to rotate at the shoulder and at the elbow to keep the cue at playing height while the rest of your body descends on the shot. It is VERY important to constantly check that your forearm is loose: your brain will automatically start to tense muscles up here and there to maintain the cue position, but you need to fight the urge and instead, correct the rest of your body (bridge arm, back, hips, neck) and "wrap" around the cue + dangling shooting arm system. Do this slowly and pay attention only to the loose forearm.
At some point, depending on your height, you'll feel that you can't go any lower without tensing up. If you're tall like I am, you'll manage to put your head a foot above the cue, no less. If you're short, you'll go down all the way. If you're tall and feel the need to go lower, work on your neck. You may also feel more comfortable if your head is higher: whatever your preference, at some point you need to arrive at your best height for that particular shot with your forearm completely dangling.
At this point, your shooting arm's elbow joint works in its natural, unloaded plane, and that plane is pretty close to the plan the cue should travel in for a successful shot. But it's not good enough yet.
Now you need to make the arm muscles work to make the shot. Take a few strokes and watch your cue as I explained above: unless you're lucky, you'll see it travel slightly "in a circle" horizontally. Pay attention, it's not very obvious. Then adjust the loaded elbow plane. You have several options, and that depends on your own body, so YOU need to figure it out: rotate your upper body slightly, pull your shooting shoulder backward (this one works great for me, I have wide shoulder and it pulls the entire arm inward), rotate your hips slightly, and finally (but as a last resort), rotate your shooting wrist slightly. Remember, you need to do these corrections AND feel your shooting arm is still loose, AND watch your shaft. This is hard, and only you can feel it and know what to correct. At no point should you feel uncomfortable, or stretched to the limit anywhere. If you are, start over, something isn't right.
When you finally hit the "magic" position, you should feel your cue is very light, your stroke seems to work perfectly. At this point, do a quick check that you still have no tension in your shooting arm, then concentrate on your stroke. Think "move only the forearm", concentrate on accelerating during the final stroke, and on follow-through. If you're truly in the right position, this will seem very easy, and the shot will go in without effort.
You'll need to work a long time until all this becomes second nature. Sorry, no magic bullet. The biggest mistake is thinking that you are in the right position when you really aren't. Then you'll think all I've said is BS. Don't give up and try harder: the right position is hard to find, really, but once you have it, it makes everything so easy it's not even funny.
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Yes, that's my point exactly: everybody needs to find their own way to make adjustments so your shooting arm travels dead straight. For you it's shifting your weight, for me it's mainly pulling my shooting arm's elbow back and down, and/or rotating my hips. For someone else, it'll be something else. That's why there can't be a unique method that would work for everybody.
I wouldn't mind shortening my backstroke, but I'm not sure how. When I bridge closer I have a tendency to punch at balls when I use spin. If I move my grip hand I don't contact the CB like I want. This has been a problem I've given up on solving until I read the grip thread here recently. There were alot of similarities brought up by players with problems like mine. I'll have to research a while longer to isolate my issues, but it's comforting to know there are others that are as frustrated as I am.
Not all the pros have straight strokes. But there is one thing they do better than other people. They line up to the shot better. And by this I don't mean aim, I mean purely alignment to the shot.
Trying to get a straight stroke is not "futile". A straight stroke is where power comes from. It comes from a straight stroke. That's how guys like Shane and Efren can do things with the cue ball with seemingly no effort. Their strokes aren't straight the entire stroking motion, but when they go through the cue ball it is straight and PURE. Unless of course they are using back hand english or something.
Trying to get a straight stroke is not "futile". A straight stroke is where power comes from. It comes from a straight stroke. That's how guys like Shane and Efren can do things with the cue ball with seemingly no effort. Their strokes aren't straight the entire stroking motion, but when they go through the cue ball it is straight and PURE. Unless of course they are using back hand english or something.
In snooker it is called stroking across the ball.
It is caused by not being able to find the centre of the cue ball and stroking straight through the vertical centre line of the cue ball.
As Willie Mosconi wrote, 85% of your shots are cued on the centre line.
The longer the distance of the shot the more the error is magnified.
And the error is compounded using smaller balls.
This deficiency in technique is masked by playing on a barbox.
The only fix that I've found is Joe Tucker's Third Eye gizmo.
It is also the cheapest gimmick around.
It is caused by not being able to find the centre of the cue ball and stroking straight through the vertical centre line of the cue ball.
As Willie Mosconi wrote, 85% of your shots are cued on the centre line.
The longer the distance of the shot the more the error is magnified.
And the error is compounded using smaller balls.
This deficiency in technique is masked by playing on a barbox.
The only fix that I've found is Joe Tucker's Third Eye gizmo.
It is also the cheapest gimmick around.