Stroking Straight

putting in insane hours

Jaden said:
I swear I must've spent 30-45 dollars a day on table time and food bills at college billiards. like five days a week during that time.

Then I got transfered up to central california after about the first year after he started learning and he was on his own.

But the first things I taught him, were the fundies and practice drills.

I remember one time when he was in practicing and I was playing on the table next to him. We were planning on going to the movies and I gave him the six out for who would pay. We went hill hill and he won, but then I think we scrapped going to the movies so that we could play some more.....

Ahhhh, those times when we were soo addicted to the game that we couldn't talk ourselves out of the poolhall....

Wait a minute, we're still like that....lol

Jaden
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It would have been great to have an obsessed partner like you or your brother. My brothers and friends played pool, I was the only one that lived it. I was holding a full time job working forty or fifty hours a week and it struck me that I was spending more time playing pool than working so I logged my pool hours for a few weeks and I did it again a few years later. Both times I found I was playing sixty to eighty hours a week! Luckily much sleep wasn't needed at that age and other people were already funding my addiction. I didn't shoot pool less than 360 days a year and well over forty hours a week for ten years except for seven weeks due to an injury. Most years I shot 365 days but I'm sure I must have missed a day sometimes, I just can't remember it!

I daydream about getting a place with a few tables now but I'm afraid I'd be like a sex addict that owned a cat house.

Hu
 
AtLarge said:
Here's a link to a lengthy thread from 2008 about throwing the cue (or stroke slip, or release and catch, or throw to the table). As you'll see, it was a somewhat controversial discussion.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109237
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It was only a controversial discussion because most players aren't aware of the technique (that thread was prob their first exposure). The Filipino guys have been releasing their cues for a long, long time.

The better someone is ability-wise, the less crazy they think it is. If you talk to an APA 5 or something --- they'll look at you like you're a creature from the blue lagoon. If you talk to a pro tour player, it's not an alien topic. Not saying all pros release their cue, but they're aware of it, seen it, or know someone who does it.

Dave
 
SpiderWebComm said:
JB,

Get my $10. I'll miscue in the circle and double-or-nothing on not miscuing outside the circle :)

hehehehe

I can't wait to meet ya at the expo--- looking forward to it.

Dave
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I got it - I even wrote DAVE on it using a Sharpie - so if nothing else you can use it as 10 Wheatbux! :-)

One small stipulation - you have to be addressing the cue ball normally - you can't go 90 degrees to the white circle and do it. You know what I mean.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
It was only a controversial discussion because most players aren't aware of the technique (that thread was prob their first exposure). The Filipino guys have been releasing their cues for a long, long time.

The better someone is ability-wise, the less crazy they think it is. If you talk to an APA 5 or something --- they'll look at you like you're a creature from the blue lagoon. If you talk to a pro tour player, it's not an alien topic. Not saying all pros release their cue, but they're aware of it, seen it, or know someone who does it.

Dave
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I always thought she was a scary looking thing myself! :smile: :wink: :smile:

Hu
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I'm not quite sure I understand the technique. Can you post a pic of your backhand? The way I read it is you first through third finger rest around the cue normally (with the thumb) and the pinky is curled in. The curled pinky is underneath the cue?

Can you post a pic? I want to see the mechanics of it.

Dave
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I may be wrong but I think Little John (Hattiesburg John) uses this technique. I asked him about it one time and he quipped that he didn't even know he did that. :smile:

Dave, the fingernail of the curled pinky finger resides or rests on the outside edge of the butt of the cue when stroking. It not only moves the palm away from the cue a bit but it also keeps you from squeezing the cue tightly.

I have been trying it for a few days and it seems to help me with accuracy on long distant shots where I have a tendency to "muscle" the cue. I have to use it some more to decide if it is right for me. So far no complaints except that it is something new.


JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
I may be wrong but I think Little John (Hattiesburg John) uses this technique. I asked him about it one time and he quipped that he didn't even know he did that. :smile:

Dave, the fingernail of the curled pinky finger resides or rests on the outside edge of the butt of the cue when stroking. It not only moves the palm away from the cue a bit but it also keeps you from squeezing the cue tightly.

I have been trying it for a few days and it seems to help me with accuracy on long distant shots where I have a tendency to "muscle" the cue. I have to use it some more to decide if it is right for me. So far no complaints except that it is something new.


JoeyA
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I tried it a little tonight too and had decent results.
It really feels weird at first but so far so good.
 
JB Cases said:
Since it's free could you point us towards some explanation of it?
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Many (most? nearly all?) top snooker players put their chins on the stick. The stick is actually rubbing on the chin. This gives feedback on the straightness of the stroke during the actual stroke during play.
 
Koop said:
I tried it a little tonight too and had decent results.
It really feels weird at first but so far so good.
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I agree, at first it seems very strange and a little uncomfortable but it doesn't take long to acclimate to using this technique. I had decent results as well.

I still forget to use it at times but will stay with it for a while to see if it improves my game in the long run.

JoeyA
 
Bob Jewett said:
Many (most? nearly all?) top snooker players put their chins on the stick. The stick is actually rubbing on the chin. This gives feedback on the straightness of the stroke during the actual stroke during play.
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And some (many? most? nearly all?) also have a fourth contact point -- the chest. So if the body and head stay still throughout the swing, and the cue is lodged against the chin and chest, how can you not keep the cue in the same plane throughout the swing? Why don't we (pool people) do that? (I know, some do; but please keep it quiet!)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
How many of you incorporate more radical techniques such as "throwing/sliding" into your game?
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I have a rubber sleeve around the butt of my cue to keep a very light grip and avoid doing exactly that. I could never figure out the slip-stroke thing. The only time I do something like that is when I have to play the cueball on a very close object ball without doing a double-hit: then I approach my bridge hand as close to the cueball as possible, draw the cue back half an inch, and with a feather grip, I sort of jerk the cue forward and let it "die" on the cueball. When I do that, I feel the rubber slip backward.
 
AtLarge said:
And some (many? most? nearly all?) also have a fourth contact point -- the chest. So if the body and head stay still throughout the swing, and the cue is lodged against the chin and chest, how can you not keep the cue in the same plane throughout the swing? Why don't we (pool people) do that?
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Because it's a Really Bad Idea[tm] :) Your chest isn't a vertical surface when you're positioned to take a shot, and your cue tends to moves up and down when you stroke, so if it rubs against your chest, it tends to be pushed to the side more on the backswing. Not to mention, your cue isn't a cylinder, it's a cone, so even if it rubbed on a vertical surface, it still wouldn't travel in a straight line. So unless you stroke snooker-style, with absolutely no up-down movement, your chest is a bad cue guide.
 
I like less contact... everything that touches the cue.. "could" knock it off line... I like a light grip.. a smooth bridge.. and let the cue do the work..

I see how the 4 point technique could force you into the same alignment every time...

every time you are allowed by the table to stand in that exact position...

but pool is not snooker... the tables are smaller the balls are larger.....

you need more angles of approach to your CB... as you will be jacked up more often..

an unhindered cue traveling along the right line for the shot will execute the shot properly... the problem is we HAVE to touch the cue... and we have to control the speed......


I don't want my cue to rub or bump against anything.. if I can help it..

Steve Davis in his snooker video talks about a scar on his chin from a 4 point stance...

he the poster boy for a classic snooker stance

seems to me he is sacrificing a bit of fluidity...and power..

but again different game... different conditions
 
Fastolfe said:
Because it's a Really Bad Idea[tm] :) Your chest isn't a vertical surface when you're positioned to take a shot,

I don't think that matters. It's a solid, unmoving surface, somewhere between perfectly vertical and perfectly horizontal.​

and your cue tends to moves up and down when you stroke,

Not much, if it's lodged against one spot on the chest!​

so if it rubs against your chest, it tends to be pushed to the side more on the backswing. Not to mention, your cue isn't a cylinder, it's a cone, so even if it rubbed on a vertical surface, it still wouldn't travel in a straight line.

I doubt that the radius of that cone changes much over the length of the portion of the cue that contacts the chest during the swing. The small change in location of the center line of the cue as it is stroked probably has little significance on the placement of the tip. The tip returns to its starting place, right?​

So unless you stroke snooker-style, with absolutely no up-down movement, your chest is a bad cue guide.

Well, it's snooker style that I'm talking about!​
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I'm really not saying that the snooker style would be better for everyone. But I am surprised that more people in this country don't give it a try. It has certainly worked well in translation from snooker to pool for Allison Fisher and Karen Corr. Some people seem to think it's not well suited to a power game, but I've certainly seen Allison, Karen, and snooker players play with all the power that seems to be necessary.
 
AtLarge said:
I'm really not saying that the snooker style would be better for everyone. But I am surprised that more people in this country don't give it a try. It has certainly worked well in translation from snooker to pool for Allison Fisher and Karen Corr. Some people seem to think it's not well suited to a power game, but I've certainly seen Allison, Karen, and snooker players play with all the power that seems to be necessary.
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I think we emulate what we see and eventually there's a bit of brain hard wiring that happens. In this country, we don't see much (spelled: any) of the proper snooker style of play. And so, we go to the pool or rec room our first few times and we try and do what we've seen, which is of course, the traditional style of play.

Which, by the way, I think has changed over time, or at least since I started playing. I was in Florida, at a very nice room around the Ft Lauderdale area, a few weeks ago. One day that I was there, an older guy came in. No idea who he was, but he was dressed a little snazzy, all in black, and he borrows a cue. The second he started hitting the balls, I could tell he was a player. But I was taken aback by how he stood at the table and I said to myself, "Wow. I haven't see that setup since I was a teenager growing up in San Francisco." It was a more erect stance with a very pronated wrist. And I remember it was how many of the top West Coast players would look at the table back in the 60's. Nowadays, I never see it.

And so, returning to the original issue, I think it's a bit of monkey see, monkey do. But also, I think form follows function. I know that when I play snooker, I start looking and playing differently than I do when I play pool. The accuracy the game demands, is one thing, and then there's the equipment, so right off the bat you need one of those itty bitty shafts. You start using more center ball, because english at those distances is dicey. And an open hand becomes you bridge of choice. Even if you're more of an upright player, suddenly you're down lower to see the shots better.

At pool, you don't have the distances and the equipment is a bit more forgiving, so you can easy up on the techniques that emphasize accuracy and go for those that give you more power and spin. IOW, at pool, I think you shoot a lot of shots with a lot of spins, speeds, and elevations, that you wouldn't dream, of shooting at snooker.

YMMV :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Bob Jewett said:
Many (most? nearly all?) top snooker players put their chins on the stick. The stick is actually rubbing on the chin. This gives feedback on the straightness of the stroke during the actual stroke during play.
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This also helps ensure the head and eyes are always in the same place over the cue ... right?

Regards,
Dave
 
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