Stun Shot: Ultimate Answer (!?)

CurvedCue

CurvedCue

Registered
Its “stunning” peculiarities stymies and confounds to no end.

Can there ever be a definitive answer?

I post in hopes of resolving this issue once and for all. I have culled examples from some famous instructors.

The question: To stun do you hit center or ½ tip below center?

According to the Monk you hit below center, otherwise the ball will roll forward:

View attachment 302870

According to Dr Dave’s video you also hit below center, otherwise the ball will roll forward (Though in his book he says center! Which is it? :():

View attachment 302869
View attachment 302864

According to Jimmy Reid you hit below center when you need to hit less than FIRM:

View attachment 302871

BUT…

Jimmy shows how if you contact a rail afterwards then the CB path IS effected by hitting below center. It does NOT follow the tangent line:

View attachment 302872

So what is the answer?

Hit below center when not hitting hard, but be aware that off a rail it won’t follow the tangent line? And yet it followed the tangent line in Dr Dave's example!

And why does everyone mistakenly say you need to hit center and only center for a stun shot? That only works when you hit it HARD, right?

Or no?

And around and around we go again. When the mass confusion and insanity will end nobody knows. :eek:

I thank you in advance for whatever clarification you can provide.

For now, my game plan is this: I'm ALWAYS going to hit below center for a stop or stun. Forget all this trying to figure when to use center or not center, firm hit or not firm, off a rail or not off a rail, etc,etc. It's driving me insane.

Is my game plan sound or unsound?
 
In order for stun to be effective, the cue ball cannot have a significant level of top spin or draw when it contacts the OB. In other words, the objective is to have the cue ball neutral or sliding at the moment of contact.

Think of it as if you wanted to perform a stop shot but striking the OB off center to create a stun shot.

On a very long shot you will hit low enough to apply draw on the shot that will ultimately dissipate and become neutral or static at the time it connects with the OB.

The amount of draw is relative to the speed of the stroke so you could hit very firm and hit just below center ball on the cue or you can it the same shot softer striking the cue ball low enough to apply sufficient back spin that, if timed properly, will dissipate and allow the cue ball to be neutral when it contacts the OB.

In cases where the cue ball and the OB are very close you may find yourself hitting center ball since the cue ball will slide momentarily prior to contact with the OB and allow for the stun effect.

Where you strike the cue ball will vary on every shot based on distance and speed. This shot is really a "touch" shot since it requires the player to rely on experience and feel to execute properly.

I would recommend practicing stop shots at different distances and different speeds to get a feel for the timing needed to create a neutral or static cue ball. This will be the same speed for stun shots.
 
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Where do you hit the CB on a stop shot? Sometimes it's center, sometimes below center.

A stunned CB would be hit the same way.. It's nothing more than a stop shot at an angle.

Speed of the hit and the distance between balls is the main factor... It's a judgement call.

.
 
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Backspin is one of the most powerful tools a player has for cue ball control. Most of the time backspin is not used to draw the cue ball back, but rather to control the point at which the cue ball slides at varying speeds.
 
Everything is covered under ANGLE-SPEED-SPIN.

I would listen to Dr Dave on this one.

randyg
 
Using a stripe as your cue ball, place the stripe horizontal like a belt around the ball and place the ball on the foot spot (where the balls are racked). No other ball is on the table. Repeatedly shoot the object ball straight up the table to the middle of the opposite short rail (which is the head cushion). Start with using backspin and a soft stroke. Note where the stripe stops spinning backwards and slides briefly with no spin at all and then starts rolling forwards.

Can you see that transition?

If the cue ball hits an object ball at the instant of that transition, you will get a stun shot. I think this is obvious by the definition of stun shot.

Now, go back to your shot and vary the amount you hit below center and the speed of the shot. Can you vary where the transition happens? Each of those shots would be a stun shot if they happened to hit an object ball at the instant of the transition.

I think that in this case you will get a lot more out of ten minutes on the table than a week of surveying what authors have to say.
 
Stun Shot

For beginners purposes I teach all position play starts with a stop shot (stun). Depending on the players stroke they tend to have the following results...

Given medium speed with the same stroke
1 diamond away from object ball = 1/2 tip below center cue ball
2 diamonds away from ob = 1 tip below center
3 diamonds away from ob = 1 1/2 tip below center
4 diamonds away from ob = 2 tips below center (extremely low)

well you can get lower on the ball so you have to increase your speed of the stroke when you get more than 4 diamonds away. But follow through is important to be there.

This progressive drill gives the player a good idea of where to start. but You can be 1 diamond away from object ball and hit soft with 2 tips below center and still stop.

Or you an be 1 diamond away and hit center ball with a firm hit (the cue ball slides all the way to the object ball).


Most important is hitting the cue ball consistantly where you want, at the speed and stroke you want... thats not asking too much is it?
 
RWOJO said:
For beginners purposes I teach all position play starts with a stop shot (stun). Depending on the players stroke they tend to have the following results...

Given medium speed with the same stroke
1 diamond away from object ball = 1/2 tip below center cue ball
2 diamonds away from ob = 1 tip below center
3 diamonds away from ob = 1 1/2 tip below center
4 diamonds away from ob = 2 tips below center (extremely low)
Click to expand...

But doesn't shooting various degrees below center also alter the rebound angle? Jimmy Reid pointed out that it does. This concept is something totally new to me. And opens up a whole other world of CONFUSION. :eek:

I have managed to stop or stun using a 1/2 to a full-tip below center. For me, 2 tips below would end up as draw shot, unless my cue is elevated. I have seen some old-timers use a peculiar stroke where they appear to be going for a draw shot, hitting so low, but then elevate their cue at the last moment and get a stop or stun.

I suppose this is what you mean when you say it depends on the player's stroke?

The reason I don't use center for stop is because you have to be close to the OB and you have to hit very hard. Hitting that hard makes me nervous.

For stun, I have noticed that using center does seem to follow the tangent line.

BUT...you also have to hit it hard. Otherwise it kinda' rolls forward.

So this why I don't see any value in a center-shot. Unless you want to intentionally roll the CB forward.
 
Stun

Start with straight in shots from varying distances (1 diamond, 2, 3, 4, 5..) and if the shot is a stop shot (cue ball doesn't go forward or back) then at that same distance but at an angle, the shot would "stun" at 90 degree's.

The "center ball" stop shot comes up when you are close (within 1 diamond) from object ball and you have a very slight cut (close to straight in). If you shoot the shoot below center and at a firm speed then you will get a slight draw, but if you hit center ball at that speed/distance then it will stun.... Go back to stop shots, straight in but less than a diamond from object ball - try center ball but firm speed.

When i explained the varying degrees of hitting lower on the cue ball that is given the Speed and stroke stay the same but the distance to the object ball changes.

Like i said - start with straight in shots and try to use the same speed and stroke to stop the cue ball from different distances from the object ball.

The best part is the precision. Example: my cue with my stroke from 1 diamond away from OB - I know 1/2 tip below center is a stop shot. If i change my tip position slightly the shot changes slightly from a stop shot. 1/16 of inch higher on the cue ball and instead of stopping the cue ball creeps forward and replaces where the object ball was. Vice versa - 1/16 of an inch lower on the cue ball and instead of stopping the cue ball will draw back ever so slightly (maybe a full ball but not much more).

CurvedCue said:
But doesn't shooting various degrees below center also alter the rebound angle? Jimmy Reid pointed out that it does. This concept is something totally new to me. And opens up a whole other world of CONFUSION. :eek:

I have managed to stop or stun using a 1/2 to a full-tip below center. For me, 2 tips below would end up as draw shot, unless my cue is elevated. I have seen some old-timers use a peculiar stroke where they appear to be going for a draw shot, hitting so low, but then elevate their cue at the last moment and get a stop or stun.

I suppose this is what you mean when you say it depends on the player's stroke?

The reason I don't use center for stop is because you have to be close to the OB and you have to hit very hard. Hitting that hard makes me nervous.

For stun, I have noticed that using center does seem to follow the tangent line.

BUT...you also have to hit it hard. Otherwise it kinda' rolls forward.

So this why I don't see any value in a center-shot. Unless you want to intentionally roll the CB forward.
Click to expand...
 
CurvedCue said:
But doesn't shooting various degrees below center also alter the rebound angle? Jimmy Reid pointed out that it does. This concept is something totally new to me. And opens up a whole other world of CONFUSION. :eek:

I have managed to stop or stun using a 1/2 to a full-tip below center. For me, 2 tips below would end up as draw shot, unless my cue is elevated. I have seen some old-timers use a peculiar stroke where they appear to be going for a draw shot, hitting so low, but then elevate their cue at the last moment and get a stop or stun.

I suppose this is what you mean when you say it depends on the player's stroke?

The reason I don't use center for stop is because you have to be close to the OB and you have to hit very hard. Hitting that hard makes me nervous.

For stun, I have noticed that using center does seem to follow the tangent line.

BUT...you also have to hit it hard. Otherwise it kinda' rolls forward.

So this why I don't see any value in a center-shot. Unless you want to intentionally roll the CB forward.
Click to expand...

With all due respect that is not Jimmy Reid in the Zero-X screen shot you posted. In fact repeatedly calling Tor Lowry Jimmy Reid to go along with your topic really makes me wonder what this thread is really all about. Last time I checked, stun shots were not a topic of controversy. Jimmy and Tor's relationship however...........

JC
 
Bob Jewett said:
Using a stripe as your cue ball, place the stripe horizontal like a belt around the ball and place the ball on the foot spot (where the balls are racked). No other ball is on the table. Repeatedly shoot the object ball straight up the table to the middle of the opposite short rail (which is the head cushion). Start with using backspin and a soft stroke. Note where the stripe stops spinning backwards and slides briefly with no spin at all and then starts rolling forwards.

Can you see that transition?

If the cue ball hits an object ball at the instant of that transition, you will get a stun shot. I think this is obvious by the definition of stun shot.

Now, go back to your shot and vary the amount you hit below center and the speed of the shot. Can you vary where the transition happens? Each of those shots would be a stun shot if they happened to hit an object ball at the instant of the transition.

I think that in this case you will get a lot more out of ten minutes on the table than a week of surveying what authors have to say.
Click to expand...

what bob said is best explanation.....hitting low on cue ball (stripe used as cue ball for visualization purposes) causes cue to backspin....then slide for a small distance....then roll forward.

stun shot, is when cue is in that sliding transition area when it contacts object ball.

where that transition point is, varies depending on speed of cue ball, and how low the hit is on the cue ball (also varies with different weight cue balls).
 
CurvedCue said:
Its “stunning” peculiarities stymies and confounds to no end.

Can there ever be a definitive answer?

I post in hopes of resolving this issue once and for all. I have culled examples from some famous instructors.

The question: To stun do you hit center or ½ tip below center?

According to the Monk you hit below center, otherwise the ball will roll forward:

View attachment 302870

According to Dr Dave’s video you also hit below center, otherwise the ball will roll forward (Though in his book he says center! Which is it? :():

View attachment 302869
View attachment 302864

According to Jimmy Reid you hit below center when you need to hit less than FIRM:

View attachment 302871

BUT…

Jimmy shows how if you contact a rail afterwards then the CB path IS effected by hitting below center. It does NOT follow the tangent line:

View attachment 302872

So what is the answer?

Hit below center when not hitting hard, but be aware that off a rail it won’t follow the tangent line? And yet it followed the tangent line in Dr Dave's example!

And why does everyone mistakenly say you need to hit center and only center for a stun shot? That only works when you hit it HARD, right?

Or no?

And around and around we go again. When the mass confusion and insanity will end nobody knows. :eek:

I thank you in advance for whatever clarification you can provide.

For now, my game plan is this: I'm ALWAYS going to hit below center for a stop or stun. Forget all this trying to figure when to use center or not center, firm hit or not firm, off a rail or not off a rail, etc,etc. It's driving me insane.

Is my game plan sound or unsound?
Click to expand...



Unusual!

A stun shot is a Stop Shot at an angle.[/B

]This shot can be hit at center or below. Every thing is about distance aka SPEED.

randyg
 
randyg said:
Unusual!

A stun shot is a Stop Shot at an angle.[/B

]This shot can be hit at center or below. Every thing is about distance aka SPEED.

randyg
Click to expand...


Just curious do you play stun run - throughs ( just above centre of CB)?

never hear it mentioned.
 
randyg said:
One of my favorite shots at any distance.

randyg
Click to expand...

And for sure one of the most important shots which can save your ass. Extrmly helpful if you want to avoid "SLOW ROLLIN ADVENTURE SHOTS" on older material.

Gesendet von meinem SM-N9005 mit Tapatalk
 
It is said that up to 75% of snooker shots is just above stun and below top ( stun run throughs).

What % would you estimate for pool?
 
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