Super-glue Finishes

Dave38,

Yes, the poly foam is the type you use for seat cushions or boat seats. It works great. You might find pieces at a local fabric store. Also, CA will stick to pretty much anything, even ivory, I don't know about Delrin though.

John
 
Just curious on durability of CA?
What happens if you bang it?
Is metal rings a problem?
Do you tell customers, CA is your preferred finish?
Would you use this to refinish another makers cue? If yes, would you have the common courtesy to call the maker and maybe say, I have one of your cues here to refinish, I use CA, How do you feel about that!
 
Last edited:
Super-glue

Michael Webb said:
Just curious on durability of CA?
What happens if you bang it?
Is metal rings a problem?
Do you tell customers, CA is your preferred finish?
Would you use this to refinish another makers cue? If yes, would you have the common courtesy to call the maker and maybe say, I have one of your cues here to refinish, I use CA, How do you feel about that!
Click to expand...

Mike hits on some really good points about super glue finishes. Here are some of my early experiences with CA and why I don't use it anymore. My first cue (over 10 years ago)was done with ca. It has yellowed, and it never leaves a room with one small window that has uv glass in it. I've refinished several cues that I know had CA as a sealer. Chester Krick made them, and I know his process. They had cracked at ring work(non metallic) and the CA had gotten a cloudy look. I read an article about finishing, and came up with the conclusion that the CA is too different in flexibility than car coat to use together. The CA is very brittle when cured, where the car coat has some flexibility, IE paint less dent repair.
It's also why, I think the epoxies work better as a sealer/filler. They are similar in flexibility. I would definitely not want one of my cues refinished with CA.
As always, just my opinion.
 
John at RocketQ,

No, CA does not react with poly foam, it eventually hardened up though. That's why I cut off the dampened foam and drop it into a metal coffee can to dispose of it.

Also,
I would not refinish someone else's cue with CA, not my style. If it's one I made then that's a different story. I'm experimenting with 2 part motorcycle clear kote.

John

John
 
cutter said:
Mike hits on some really good points about super glue finishes. Here are some of my early experiences with CA and why I don't use it anymore. My first cue (over 10 years ago)was done with ca. It has yellowed, and it never leaves a room with one small window that has uv glass in it. I've refinished several cues that I know had CA as a sealer. Chester Krick made them, and I know his process. They had cracked at ring work(non metallic) and the CA had gotten a cloudy look. I read an article about finishing, and came up with the conclusion that the CA is too different in flexibility than car coat to use together. The CA is very brittle when cured, where the car coat has some flexibility, IE paint less dent repair.
It's also why, I think the epoxies work better as a sealer/filler. They are similar in flexibility. I would definitely not want one of my cues refinished with CA.
As always, just my opinion.
Click to expand...
tap tap tap
If it hardens up in a minute, it can't be that strong imo.
 
I have used a CA finish on replacement shafts many times over the last ten years or so. Although when first installed on a shaft the finish looked great, later on down the road when viewing the shafts after some use I was shocked to often see how it had degraded. I make a lot of shafts for people, probably at least a 100 a year. I have matching deco-rings for most cues so often I can build their shaft while they wait. After seeing these shafts with a degraded finish I spent close to 2,000.00 for U.V. system to use instead and still be able to make a shaft while people waited. This also was a mistake and would not work for this purpose. Now I tell people that it takes a couple of days to make a shaft with a proper finish. If they are in a hurry I tell them about the CA drawbacks and if they don't mind them then I use it.

I think I must have put CA finish on a cue once also as I seen one of my cues one time in a pool hall and the finish was horrible. I wondered how anyone could abuse a cue like that. Afterwards it dawned on me that it must have a CA finish and that it wasn't the owner's fault for the degradation. He had bought the cue used and if I ever run into this cue again I'll either refinish it for him or try to buy it back. It was truly horrible.

Dick
 
I have Used Super glue off and on for many years. I still use it for the shaft, but use Cue Cote epoxy finish for the butts. The thing that Super glue does that I don't like is cracking around the ring work as it is not very flexible. What I have found that helps eliminate this is to put it on thicker than I used to. To put it on at least .003" thick meaning the joint is .006" under desired final size, helps keep the cracking down. It also seems to give less problems in the long run if it is dried with accelerator instead of air drying. One little tip during the application process is to watch out for any hint of hazing or frosting. If it frosts (turns white) and you put another coat on. It will trap that white frosting into the finish. Usually wiping the frost off with accelerator will remove it. I have found using .005" thick finish works even better, but .003 is minimum. The Satelite City Super T brand has shown very little yellowing over time and can be found at Wood Craft or Prathers. But I do suggest using Atlas pump bottle accelerator with it, and not the Satelite city accelerator that comes in the spray can.
 
Last edited:
I still use It for somethings on and off as others have mentioned, but I've had My fill of It for finishing. I have also seen almost everything mentioned here out of It, and it is true that chances are greater then not that It will degrade. I have done a few Myself, and Have had to repair finishes on other make cues that are easy to tell CA was originally used. The rings as mentioned, it is somewhat cloudy looking compared to some other finishes that buff out more shiny, and clear. Almost a haze to the finish too. I can tell from some of the pics here that ca was used even if It hadn't been mentioned. Another thing I see alot of is blisters and chipouts in the buttsleeves, places That took hard hits, and around the rings as already mentioned.
It is a hard finish though, so atleast alot of times It won't crush the wood underneath when It takes a hit ,but is so hard that It chips outs, and that makes touchup a PITA if the wood underneath fades or changes colors before It is fixed.

The finish I have been using on a few cues is softer, but comes in a spray bomb, buffs out easily, has more shine, and doesn't chip out. That makes touch up easier,scuffs in the buttsleeve can easily just be buffed, although being a softer finish, really hard hits to the cue can crush the wood. It doesn't chipout though even under that hard of a hit, but after filling, even followed By respray and buff, It's a hair too easy to spot for My taste. That being said I'm about to try something different, and finally gonna make the switch to auto clear, but there are different types, so I need some advice on their strenths and weaknesses. I'll start a new thread instead of highjacking here, in hopes some of the fine people here could lend their advice and experiences.:)

Anyway, not trying to put It down, this is just My take on It from My experiences with ca. I have had some decent finishes with it, just too many headaches for me, both in using It, and repairing It down the line.:)
 
manwon said:
Hello dude, this is what I use for Super Glue, the same company makes a non-whiting accelerator to harden the super glue immediately. The white areas are bubbles in the Super Glue, by following the instructions on the Accelerator this will no longer be a problem.

To smooth out the glue, first apply thin coats, with the lathe spinning at a slow speed. As you apply the Super Glue run a paper towel along the bottom of the cue to smooth out the surface.

By the way when buying Super Glue for finishes always buy thick!!!!! Below are some photo's of the Brand you should buy, along with the accelerator.

View attachment 39210

Enjoy
Click to expand...

I have not found any problems using Super Glue as yet. I have been using it for a couple of years with great results. I think the trick to using it is the surface application process which most people have not perfected to the level I have. I have tried a number of application processes with different types of finishes and none are as fast, better looking or to date any more durable then Super Glue.

The key to any finish is the proper preparation of the surface to be finished. First, when I finish sand I never use anything under 220 grit paper, I have found that this gives the surface the perfect roughness to accept any finish especially Super Glue. Like any type of glue a rough or porous surface is needed for the glue to take its maximum effect.

Next, while many posters to this thread have their own opinions on the type and the viscosity (thin, medium, thick), I find that the thick works best for the first coat applied for the following reason. Thick fills gaps and pores in wood better than the other two types of super glue due to its nature, and it the fact that it will not run easly.

However, before I apply my first coat of super glue I use a neutral danish oil finish if I do not want to change the woods color. If I want to stain it I use different colors of danish oil finish before my application of super glue. After my final sanding I wipe the wood down with a damp cloth with the lathe spinning. I then immediately apply a good coat of the danish oil, and then immediately wipe off the excess with a clean paper towel while the wood is spinning. Next I check the surface of the wood for any defects or scratches I may have missed with my final sanding. The danish oil will amplify any defect and it will also bring out the character of the wood. Next apply the first coat of super glue directly over the woods surface. The first coat should not be a heavy coat, because this is the single most important step when applying a super glue finish without the problems described throughout this thread. Now even though I use accelerator I will allow this coat to set from two hour's to over night. During this step you will be able to see if the super glue has bonded to the woods surface. Things to look for would be any spotting, any cloudy areas, or any bubbles in the finish. If these problems are not found, lightly sand the surface with 150 grit without the lathe spinning from front to back. Then apply another coat of danish oil finish directly to the top of the super glue with the lathe spinning, and wipe off the excess. Then check for any defects from sanding the glue smooth and if none are found apply another coat of super glue and smooth it out with a paper towel while the lathe is spinning by running the paper towel in one direction until smooth, then immediately use the accelerator pictured above. This accelerator is the only one I would recommend, others can cause white or cloudy areas to form over time. The accelerator I have outlined will dry clear immediately without any problems.

After the first coat, additional coats can be applied every 5 to 10 minutes using the exact process outlined above every time, including the danish oil finish. Guy's and Gal's this process works, I have outlined it for anyone who wants to try it. I would not recommend using any other type of super glue, accelerator, or Watco Danish oil finish other than what I have outlined above.

If my instructions are followed the finish will come out crystal clear, it will not separate at the rings, white or cloudy areas will not form later, and it will wear as good as any other finish used. This entire process is mine, I have found this method through trial and error, I do not know of anyone else is using danish oil finish between coats of super glue, however, it works. The oil finish may soften the super glue or even make it bond better, I do not know, all I do know is that they mix very well together and enhance each others appearance.

People who have seen my cues always comment on my finish, and they love the way it looks. I have been doing this for about two now with no problems to date.

I hope this helps, and if anyone else has any questions please pm me I would be glad to help!!!!!!

Have a good night!!!!!
 
manwon said:
I have not found any problems using Super Glue as yet. I have been using it for a couple of years with great results. I think the trick to using it is the surface application process which most people have not perfected to the level I have. I have tried a number of application processes with different types of finishes and none are as fast, better looking or to date any more durable then Super Glue.

The key to any finish is the proper preparation of the surface to be finished. First, when I finish sand I never use anything under 220 grit paper, I have found that this gives the surface the perfect roughness to accept any finish especially Super Glue. Like any type of glue a rough or porous surface is needed for the glue to take its maximum effect.

Next, while many posters to this thread have their own opinions on the type and the viscosity (thin, medium, thick), I find that the thick works best for the first coat applied for the following reason. Thick fills gaps and pores in wood better than the other two types of super glue due to its nature, and it the fact that it will not run easly.

However, before I apply my first coat of super glue I use a neutral danish oil finish if I do not want to change the woods color. If I want to stain it I use different colors of danish oil finish before my application of super glue. After my final sanding I wipe the wood down with a damp cloth with the lathe spinning. I then immediately apply a good coat of the danish oil, and then immediately wipe off the excess with a clean paper towel while the wood is spinning. Next I check the surface of the wood for any defects or scratches I may have missed with my final sanding. The danish oil will amplify any defect and it will also bring out the character of the wood. Next apply the first coat of super glue directly over the woods surface. The first coat should not be a heavy coat, because this is the single most important step when applying a super glue finish without the problems described throughout this thread. Now even though I use accelerator I will allow this coat to set from two hour's to over night. During this step you will be able to see if the super glue has bonded to the woods surface. Things to look for would be any spotting, any cloudy areas, or any bubbles in the finish. If these problems are not found, lightly sand the surface with 150 grit without the lathe spinning from front to back. Then apply another coat of danish oil finish directly to the top of the super glue with the lathe spinning, and wipe off the excess. Then check for any defects from sanding the glue smooth and if none are found apply another coat of super glue and smooth it out with a paper towel while the lathe is spinning by running the paper towel in one direction until smooth, then immediately use the accelerator pictured above. This accelerator is the only one I would recommend, others can cause white or cloudy areas to form over time. The accelerator I have outlined will dry clear immediately without any problems.

After the first coat, additional coats can be applied every 5 to 10 minutes using the exact process outlined above every time, including the danish oil finish. Guy's and Gal's this process works, I have outlined it for anyone who wants to try it. I would not recommend using any other type of super glue, accelerator, or Watco Danish oil finish other than what I have outlined above.

If my instructions are followed the finish will come out crystal clear, it will not separate at the rings, white or cloudy areas will not form later, and it will wear as good as any other finish used. This entire process is mine, I have found this method through trial and error, I do not know of anyone else is using danish oil finish between coats of super glue, however, it works. The oil finish may soften the super glue or even make it bond better, I do not know, all I do know is that they mix very well together and enhance each others appearance.

People who have seen my cues always comment on my finish, and they love the way it looks. I have been doing this for about two now with no problems to date.

I hope this helps, and if anyone else has any questions please pm me I would be glad to help!!!!!!

Have a good night!!!!!
Click to expand...


Never tried the danish oil, If it works then you may be on to something.:)
 
JoeyInCali said:
tap tap tap
If it hardens up in a minute, it can't be that strong imo.
Click to expand...


i agree for structure but not finish. there is a chemical reaction to make it harded. air drying total takes hours or more. i think that makes it ok.

old schon for years used superglue only

ive never had a problem with it
 
Last edited:
manwon said:
I have not found any problems using Super Glue as yet. I have been using it for a couple of years with great results. I think the trick to using it is the surface application process which most people have not perfected to the level I have. I have tried a number of application processes with different types of finishes and none are as fast, better looking or to date any more durable then Super Glue.

The key to any finish is the proper preparation of the surface to be finished. First, when I finish sand I never use anything under 220 grit paper, I have found that this gives the surface the perfect roughness to accept any finish especially Super Glue. Like any type of glue a rough or porous surface is needed for the glue to take its maximum effect.

Next, while many posters to this thread have their own opinions on the type and the viscosity (thin, medium, thick), I find that the thick works best for the first coat applied for the following reason. Thick fills gaps and pores in wood better than the other two types of super glue due to its nature, and it the fact that it will not run easly.

However, before I apply my first coat of super glue I use a neutral danish oil finish if I do not want to change the woods color. If I want to stain it I use different colors of danish oil finish before my application of super glue. After my final sanding I wipe the wood down with a damp cloth with the lathe spinning. I then immediately apply a good coat of the danish oil, and then immediately wipe off the excess with a clean paper towel while the wood is spinning. Next I check the surface of the wood for any defects or scratches I may have missed with my final sanding. The danish oil will amplify any defect and it will also bring out the character of the wood. Next apply the first coat of super glue directly over the woods surface. The first coat should not be a heavy coat, because this is the single most important step when applying a super glue finish without the problems described throughout this thread. Now even though I use accelerator I will allow this coat to set from two hour's to over night. During this step you will be able to see if the super glue has bonded to the woods surface. Things to look for would be any spotting, any cloudy areas, or any bubbles in the finish. If these problems are not found, lightly sand the surface with 150 grit without the lathe spinning from front to back. Then apply another coat of danish oil finish directly to the top of the super glue with the lathe spinning, and wipe off the excess. Then check for any defects from sanding the glue smooth and if none are found apply another coat of super glue and smooth it out with a paper towel while the lathe is spinning by running the paper towel in one direction until smooth, then immediately use the accelerator pictured above. This accelerator is the only one I would recommend, others can cause white or cloudy areas to form over time. The accelerator I have outlined will dry clear immediately without any problems.

After the first coat, additional coats can be applied every 5 to 10 minutes using the exact process outlined above every time, including the danish oil finish. Guy's and Gal's this process works, I have outlined it for anyone who wants to try it. I would not recommend using any other type of super glue, accelerator, or Watco Danish oil finish other than what I have outlined above.

If my instructions are followed the finish will come out crystal clear, it will not separate at the rings, white or cloudy areas will not form later, and it will wear as good as any other finish used. This entire process is mine, I have found this method through trial and error, I do not know of anyone else is using danish oil finish between coats of super glue, however, it works. The oil finish may soften the super glue or even make it bond better, I do not know, all I do know is that they mix very well together and enhance each others appearance.

People who have seen my cues always comment on my finish, and they love the way it looks. I have been doing this for about two now with no problems to date.

I hope this helps, and if anyone else has any questions please pm me I would be glad to help!!!!!!

Have a good night!!!!!
Click to expand...
You and my son Israel both blow my mind with your Super Glue techniques. They make no sense to me, but they work. You use danish oil and my son used Olive Oil between coats after sanding and it produced a super deep looking finish that shined better than any other super glue finish we have put on. I kept telling him it would not stick and he kept ignoring me. Well it stayed stuck and I don't know why. Oil and glue are not supposed to mix in my logical mind. Do you have any explaination of why the oil does not keep the super glue from sticking. It removes all scratches and looks deep and beautiful, but makes zero sense to me. I just kept telling him that one day that cue is coming back, and so far it has not.
 
dave sutton said:
i agree for structure but not finish. there is a chemical reaction to make it harded. air drying total takes hours or more. i think that makes it ok.

old schon for years used superglue only

ive never had a problem with it
Click to expand...

I don't know where you heard that from. I was talking to Nubs Wagner last year and he told me that when He and Runde started Schon cues they started building the cues in his shop and that they used an epoxy finish. He said they bought 55 gallon drums of rubbing compound and they had a guy in a room with a rotary compound wheel in a suit rubbing the finishes out all day long. He said the room was covered in the compound from being slung off of the wheel.

Dick
 
cueman said:
You and my son Israel both blow my mind with your Super Glue techniques. They make no sense to me, but they work. You use danish oil and my son used Olive Oil between coats after sanding and it produced a super deep looking finish that shined better than any other super glue finish we have put on. I kept telling him it would not stick and he kept ignoring me. Well it stayed stuck and I don't know why. Oil and glue are not supposed to mix in my logical mind. Do you have any explaination of why the oil does not keep the super glue from sticking. It removes all scratches and looks deep and beautiful, but makes zero sense to me. I just kept telling him that one day that cue is coming back, and so far it has not.
Click to expand...

Chris, I really have no idea chemically why the two substances bond like they do, however, as you have stated it works. I kinda thought some others had tried this technique, but I was not certain until now.

Chris, I also think that this method also through the chemical changes softens the super glue a Little bit. Because most of the finishes that have been damaged by the customer and brought back for repair have dented not chipped. I also think that the heat genorated by the accelorator may have something to do with these chemical changes.

Chris, I found this process while using the Watco Danish Oil finish as a stain. I was experimenting with the time requirement needed before topping the wood with the super glue. In the beginning I wood wait for 24 hr's because I was afraid that the oil would cause the Glue not to stick to the woods surface. It seemed to have no effect so I shortened the wait time down to immediately after application of the oil finish. During the process I noticed that when staining the wood, the oil finish brought out any surface imperfections from sanding or contamination from other sources. So I started applying the oil finish in between coats of super glue for the same purpose. During this time, I also found out that the oil finish would fill any scratches or even air bubbles in the surface of the glue. Next I also found that this process also would allow you to stain areas that had not stained completely by applying additional stain to the glue itself, which over all gives the entire stained area a more uniform look. In addition, I think the process gives a much more deep, and almost wet appearance when the finish is buffed out, which will even further deepen and bring out the woods color even more with time. One think to remember though if someone wants to try this, they should not use anything except Nuetral Danish oil unless they are attempting to change the color of the woods surface.

Chris, I am completely self taught, I recently purchased your DVDs for reference, and I have truly enjoyed them and found a great deal of valuable information that will help me down the road to becoming a better cue maker. All my knowledge before was obtained, by doing repairs and by disassembling broken cues that had been discarded. I have never been the type of person who believes that to be successful you must stay between the lines. I was in the Military for 23 years, I retired in 2003 and one thing that I learned is to think outside the box, and not to be afraid to make mistakes. I think many people never achieve what they can because one, they stay between lines their entire life, two their though process is confined to a text book solution, and three they have never learned to evaluate and develop confidants in their own abilities without outside influence.

I hope this helps the AZ community, and if I let the Cat out of the bag for others who may be using this technique, I am sorry. However, it never was my intention to hurt anyone, my intention has been now and in the past to share what I consider useful information with our community.

Have a good day!!!!
 
Super Glue Finishes

cueman said:
You and my son Israel both blow my mind with your Super Glue techniques. They make no sense to me, but they work. You use danish oil and my son used Olive Oil between coats after sanding and it produced a super deep looking finish that shined better than any other super glue finish we have put on. I kept telling him it would not stick and he kept ignoring me. Well it stayed stuck and I don't know why. Oil and glue are not supposed to mix in my logical mind. Do you have any explaination of why the oil does not keep the super glue from sticking. It removes all scratches and looks deep and beautiful, but makes zero sense to me. I just kept telling him that one day that cue is coming back, and so far it has not.
Click to expand...

Chris: I have heard, and do it myself, that by alternating layers of an oil and CA, the oil acts as an accelerator and leveler for the CA. I personally use a mixture of 1/3 tung oil, 1/3 linseed oil and 1/3 spar varnish (for UV protection). Got it from an old violin maker.

Regards,

Bob Flynn
Denali Pool Cues
www.denalicues.com
 
QMAKER said:
Chris: I have heard, and do it myself, that by alternating layers of an oil and CA, the oil acts as an accelerator and leveler for the CA. I personally use a mixture of 1/3 tung oil, 1/3 linseed oil and 1/3 spar varnish (for UV protection). Got it from an old violin maker.

Regards,

Bob Flynn
Denali Pool Cues
www.denalicues.com
Click to expand...

UPDATE; I do not use the above as a finish for my cues. I use it for a sealer/base coat.

Bob Flynn
 
QMAKER said:
UPDATE; I do not use the above as a finish for my cues. I use it for a sealer/base coat.

Bob Flynn
Click to expand...
You mean you spray over it after it dries up?
tnx
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top