Better read my post.
Super Low Deflection Cue Idea - Thoughts?
- Thread starter Colin Colenso
- Start date
Better read my post.
Nice post Freddie, and I partially recall Jaden's reduced deflection tip, but very vaguely.
Not connecting the dots on Meucci's ferrule though? Related to air gap?
Colin
Your design
I don't know what to say, its your idea, I was just giving suggestions on how to design a tip that moves on the ferrule.
I know of no spring that small that is going to work in your design......
Just a suggestion or a thought but why not make it where the whole ferrule moves
or the pivot point is half way down the ferrule instead of just the tip.
At least you would have more room to install what ever system you invent.
I don't know what to say, its your idea, I was just giving suggestions on how to design a tip that moves on the ferrule.
I know of no spring that small that is going to work in your design......
Just a suggestion or a thought but why not make it where the whole ferrule moves
or the pivot point is half way down the ferrule instead of just the tip.
At least you would have more room to install what ever system you invent.
In one of his shafts (black dot?), there is a gap between the ferrule and the top of the tenon. So, in the first inch or less, the ferrule upon a sideways load needs to jump that gap before the ferrule touches the tenon. In effect, the ferrule is decoupled slightly from the tenon, so a significant amount of time during the tip-ball contact, the cueball doesn't "see" as much of the shaft mass. Once the ferrule fully touches the tenon, then that transverse wave gets to fully go down the shaft and add more mass to the collision. Its not a full decoupling, but its partial decoupling seems to prove out the theory.
Freddie
I wasn't criticizing MM, perhaps magnets would work well, just giving intuitive responses to get the thought processes flowing.
The idea of putting the articulated part as close to the tip as possible is to reduce the effective tip end mass.
Squirt is primarily determined by the weight of the end several inches of the cue as the spiin pushes against the tip. So if the tip gives in some way, such that the CB is pushing on a lesser weight, then the squirt is reduced.
Colin
If it is constructed solidly, I can't see how there could be any decoupling. Just lower net density. If it has internal movement, such that a degree of decoupling takes place, it's hard to imagine it would hold together for long.
Colin
It didnt
Meucci;s power piston ferrules seem to fail allot.......................
Meucci;s power piston ferrules seem to fail allot.......................
And therein lies the problem. Lots of cracked Meucci ferrules. I think today's power piston has a shorter air gap.
But, just because something is solid, that doesn't mean there is detrimental movement under load (deflection as engineers would call it).That's a strength of materials and statics/dynamics exercise that maybe just needs more work.
Freddie <~~~ leaving it for future homework
The first person I remember suggesting this was Bob Jewett back in RSB's heyday - 15-20 years ago (when we were all teenagers
).pj
chgo
Colin, how long would your bridge length have to be for BHE to be effective with this concept?
I played with a friends cue about a year ago. 8 mm at the tip, strong conical taper. The shaft had very low squirt characteristics, the lowest I had ever seen. At slow to med speed the swerve was 3/4 of a ball over 80 inches.
We are always going to have to compensate for something.
I played with a friends cue about a year ago. 8 mm at the tip, strong conical taper. The shaft had very low squirt characteristics, the lowest I had ever seen. At slow to med speed the swerve was 3/4 of a ball over 80 inches.
We are always going to have to compensate for something.
G'Dey Colin,
Interesting concept. My post is in general & not directed to you specifically. I know you know much of what I'm going to say.
Bob Meucci has worked on reducing cue ball squirt/deflection through increasing shaft deflection for many many years.
His focus has basically been force absorption through increased flex in the shaft. When something is forced into a flexed state there is the eventual rebound of that force. Hence his ferrules & then his power piston butt.
A whippy flex golf shaft can allow a golf ball to be hit farther if the release of the flex created by the swing is well timed. The same force of swing with a stiff shaft does not allow the golf ball to be hit as far. It requires a more forceful swing to load the shaft to an equal amount of the more whippy shaft.
I think his idea for his power piston butt was born when he was doing the shaft testng comparisons to the black dot shaft.
When he put an Adam Balabuska Cue made by Richard Helmstetter on the machine it hit the best with the stock shaft, He made the comment that it must be a very well made butt. It hit the best so it had the least improvement with the black dot shaft. But... it was the best combination of non Meucci Butt with the Black Dot shaft & it's stock shaft.
Hence his power piston cue series.
I've brought this up a couple of times on AZB but it went no where.
Even though the contact time with the tip & cue is very short the timing of the release of the flex force is crucial. Just as the subconscious timing of one's stroke. Mr. Meucci understands this.
One should take ALL parameters into consideration when discussing & making (definitive) statements.
To makes statements of what does what & what causes what & what can't do what without considering all of the other contributing parameters is not scientific IMHO & can be very misleading at times to those that do not have a good understanding of physics.
Some think they know it all about the 'science of pool' but that is a mistake given the lack of complete & actual real scientific testing & study.
Just some food for thought, I hope.
Best2 you, Colin & All,
Rick
Interesting concept. My post is in general & not directed to you specifically. I know you know much of what I'm going to say.
Bob Meucci has worked on reducing cue ball squirt/deflection through increasing shaft deflection for many many years.
His focus has basically been force absorption through increased flex in the shaft. When something is forced into a flexed state there is the eventual rebound of that force. Hence his ferrules & then his power piston butt.
A whippy flex golf shaft can allow a golf ball to be hit farther if the release of the flex created by the swing is well timed. The same force of swing with a stiff shaft does not allow the golf ball to be hit as far. It requires a more forceful swing to load the shaft to an equal amount of the more whippy shaft.
I think his idea for his power piston butt was born when he was doing the shaft testng comparisons to the black dot shaft.
When he put an Adam Balabuska Cue made by Richard Helmstetter on the machine it hit the best with the stock shaft, He made the comment that it must be a very well made butt. It hit the best so it had the least improvement with the black dot shaft. But... it was the best combination of non Meucci Butt with the Black Dot shaft & it's stock shaft.
Hence his power piston cue series.
I've brought this up a couple of times on AZB but it went no where.
Even though the contact time with the tip & cue is very short the timing of the release of the flex force is crucial. Just as the subconscious timing of one's stroke. Mr. Meucci understands this.
One should take ALL parameters into consideration when discussing & making (definitive) statements.
To makes statements of what does what & what causes what & what can't do what without considering all of the other contributing parameters is not scientific IMHO & can be very misleading at times to those that do not have a good understanding of physics.
Some think they know it all about the 'science of pool' but that is a mistake given the lack of complete & actual real scientific testing & study.
Just some food for thought, I hope.
Best2 you, Colin & All,
Rick
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Good clarifying point, Freddie.
I would also consider what effect one's type of stroke, timing ( accelerating, decelerating or constant speed through the ball) & even their connection to the cue can have on that effect.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
I would suggest taking it another direction. I would like to have a manufacturer (like OB, Pred or Tiger) develope a variable head type design. Picture this you would have the last 8 inches with a wood on wood thread which could be field replaced. Now this gives you a lot of benefits. You can go ultra low LD and not be as concerned with longevity. Kind of like a race car. Maximum performance and I'm only worried about today.
Now I can buy multiple "ends" that I can tune and am not married to it. Want a ultra short ferrule that may only last 3 months. No problem. Want a more classic feel with longevity I go solid etc. The sport needs a better revenue stream for vendors anyway. It could work. 25 years ago if you told me I would be paying $30 for tips and $3 for bottled water I would have laughed you out the door. Today not so much.
I still put my foot down for lipstick based chalk. A man has limits.
Nick
Now I can buy multiple "ends" that I can tune and am not married to it. Want a ultra short ferrule that may only last 3 months. No problem. Want a more classic feel with longevity I go solid etc. The sport needs a better revenue stream for vendors anyway. It could work. 25 years ago if you told me I would be paying $30 for tips and $3 for bottled water I would have laughed you out the door. Today not so much.
I still put my foot down for lipstick based chalk. A man has limits.
Nick
I am not upset
I am just trying to figure out how to design your idea.
I do not think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to hold up to the forces that will be applied to the tip and ferrule.......
If my statement above is true then the design is going to be about materials and how they move under certain forces and not mechanical moving parts.
I am just trying to figure out how to design your idea.
I do not think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to hold up to the forces that will be applied to the tip and ferrule.......
If my statement above is true then the design is going to be about materials and how they move under certain forces and not mechanical moving parts.
I agree with this. But, then again, in 10 years we will all look back at what we thought was impossible yet has become commonplace.
Freddie <~~~ back to the future
Ld
I agree, in ten years who knows what materials will be invented .
For all I know someone might invent a laminated LD hemp shaft by then.
Or at least a hemp woven ferrule......
I read hemp is allot stronger then pine or fir and more flexible.
Maybe the answer is not in a new material, but in something that is natural but super strong for its size like a spiders web or some know plant that we have failed to notice its super natural strengths.
I agree, in ten years who knows what materials will be invented .
For all I know someone might invent a laminated LD hemp shaft by then.
Or at least a hemp woven ferrule......
I read hemp is allot stronger then pine or fir and more flexible.
Maybe the answer is not in a new material, but in something that is natural but super strong for its size like a spiders web or some know plant that we have failed to notice its super natural strengths.
Nick,
I like it.
You also 'lose' certain shots with LD shafts.
Golf let's one carry 14 clubs because the game requires many shots.
So does pool.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
I doubt such a cue, if it worked, would be practical for BHE, as it may require 20+ inch bridge lengths. For me, it's more of an interest in the concept.
Bob seems to be first at everything :thumbup:The first person I remember suggesting this was Bob Jewett back in RSB's heyday - 15-20 years ago (when we were all teenagers
pj
chgo
For those interested, there is a perinent quote and cross-section photograph for the Meucci design at the bottom of the shaft endmass and stiffness resource page.
Regards,
Dave