SVB foul vs. Kaci?

[Low500]

You don't need a slow motion gadget. Just go to Settings in the lower right corner of the video on YouTube, and set it to .25 speed.
It is obvious when watching it a slower speed that his tip doesn't touch the cueball and that the cueball doesn't change direction.

No, it is NOT 'obvious'.
The cueball hit the tip of the stick.
My eyes are better than yours.

 

[BRussell]

I won't go into detail about what I do, but my profession requires that I have high quality video equipment.

So how long have you been in the porn industry...

 

[pwd72s]

Did to!...Did not!...Did to!...Did not!

And on it goes........:thumbup:

 

[easy-e]

Did to!...Did not!...Did to!...Did not!

And on it goes........:thumbup:

Haha, I was just going to post something similar! Pretty neat right that people on both sides of the debate are “sure” or “positive”.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

First of all the referee is out of position to make the call. He should have stationed himself at the end of the table where the cue was traveling toward him. Many referees think they should not be in the line of sight of the player when he's shooting. Wrong! A good referee gets into the best position possible to see the shot develop, particularly on a shot like this. Then he needs to stand still! That way he's in a better position to see what happens before and after contact. Where he was standing, behind Shane, he has no chance to make the correct call here.

Interestingly enough, we can actually see the shot better on this video than he could, because we are in the line of sight of the cue ball path. This is the hard part, making the call. It all happens very fast and you need to watch closely the path of the cue ball. Something definitely happens to deviate it's course, and it isn't English taking after the cue ball is a diamond off the rail. As the ref, if you see the shot and hear a sound, it's a foul. After watching it several times, I believe the cue ball came into contact with his tip after the shot. That caused the quick deviation in the path of the cue ball.

You'd have to slo-mo this to really see the foul more clearly. Notice where his tip is when the cue ball swerves abruptly. Shane probably felt the contact as well. One more thing, if you watch closely, Shane hits center ball on the cue ball, so there wouldn't be any English coming off the rail. The correct way to shoot this shot is center ball with no English. It's just too hard a shot to add English to the equation. He fouled!

I was at the venue for 3 days, and here are my thoughts..

1. Center ball is not the correct way to hit this ball. This sends the cue ball towards the 9, and even if tge CB misses the 9, it is working it's way farther and farther from the next ball. Top english all day long, and twice on Sundays.

2. The cloth was new, and not only that, but I think it was Z9 cloth, not Simonis. Add the extremely new, slick cloth, add tv table lights into the equation, and the bending of the cue ball forwatd is not unusual at all on this equipment. I saw similar reactions in non-ambiguous situations during the 3 days I was there.

 

[BRussell]

I was at the venue for 3 days, and here are my thoughts..

1. Center ball is not the correct way to hit this ball. This sends the cue ball towards the 9, and even if tge CB misses the 9, it is working it's way farther and farther from the next ball. Top english all day long, and twice on Sundays.

2. The cloth was new, and not only that, but I think it was Z9 cloth, not Simonis. Add the extremely new, slick cloth, add tv table lights into the equation, and the bending of the cue ball forwatd is not unusual at all on this equipment. I saw similar reactions in non-ambiguous situations during the 3 days I was there.

Was anyone talking about this at the event? It seems like something that came up long afterwards. And it didn't look like anyone - ref, Kaci, crowd, SVB - reacted at all to the shot in an unusual way.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Was anyone talking about this at the event? It seems like something that came up long afterwards. And it didn't look like anyone - ref, Kaci, crowd, SVB - reacted at all to the shot in an unusual way.

I left the evening of the 3rd day, after the days matches were completed, so I was not there for this specific match.. Just opining that the reaction was not abnormal based on the conditions...

 

[iusedtoberich]

I did not read this thread except 3 or 4 posts, and just saw the video myself for the first time.

IMO, I believe it was not a foul, and the curve was due to the high english taking shortly after hitting the rail. High Karate as DD would say.

 

[robertod]

foul, and so what?

Clearly a foul to me.

Cue ball swerves, I can hear cue ball contacting something and that something most likely the cue. Shane did not see it , no one else did. End of story. Game goes on. Not the first time ( and will not be the last) in a sporting event that a foul is not noticed. Just comes with the territory and we have to accept it.

Have you watched any NBA or NFL games?

 

[btown]

First of all the referee is out of position to make the call. He should have stationed himself at the end of the table where the cue was traveling toward him. Many referees think they should not be in the line of sight of the player when he's shooting. Wrong! A good referee gets into the best position possible to see the shot develop, particularly on a shot like this. Then he needs to stand still! That way he's in a better position to see what happens before and after contact. Where he was standing, behind Shane, he has no chance to make the correct call here.

Interestingly enough, we can actually see the shot better on this video than he could, because we are in the line of sight of the cue ball path. This is the hard part, making the call. It all happens very fast and you need to watch closely the path of the cue ball. Something definitely happens to deviate it's course, and it isn't English taking after the cue ball is a diamond off the rail. As the ref, if you see the shot and hear a sound, it's a foul. After watching it several times, I believe the cue ball came into contact with his tip after the shot. That caused the quick deviation in the path of the cue ball.

You'd have to slo-mo this to really see the foul more clearly. Notice where his tip is when the cue ball swerves abruptly. Shane probably felt the contact as well. One more thing, if you watch closely, Shane hits center ball on the cue ball, so there wouldn't be any English coming off the rail. The correct way to shoot this shot is center ball with no English. It's just too hard a shot to add English to the equation. He fouled!

I am going to go with the guy who has been calling professional hits for the last 30 or 40 years..

Definitely agree with Jay here! Except when he said the correct way as if he has any idea..

 

[Black-Balled]

And I cant buy the assertion that the cb curved as the result of spin...you have to hit a ball a lot harder than that to make it bend off a rail.

 

[terryhanna]

​

.................

 

[AtLarge]

... 2. The cloth was new, and not only that, but I think it was Z9 cloth, not Simonis. ...

The Simonis name was on the side of the table and on the arena "billboards."

 

[iusedtoberich]

The Simonis name was on the side of the table and on the arena "billboards."

The Venom has huge Rasson stickers on his Diamond table

 

[iusedtoberich]

And I cant buy the assertion that the cb curved as the result of spin...you have to hit a ball a lot harder than that to make it bend off a rail.

If you play the video at 1/4 speed on the youtube setting, you can very easily see the CB curves like a banana before getting anywhere near the bridge. And it looks like it still continues to curve after passing the bridge.

Plus, he hit it quite hard, enough to go up and down table long ways 2.5 lengths.

No foul to me

 

[iusedtoberich]

Haha, I was just going to post something similar! Pretty neat right that people on both sides of the debate are “sure” or “positive”.

This would be a good bet for the action room, if we could get all of the original camera footage (not what is on youtube) and send it to the video guys on this site to do a frame by frame from each of the camera angles. I think we'd have a ton of action on both sides!

 

[iusedtoberich]

This thread simply validates professional golf's decision to stop taking calls from "armchair referees" whenever they thought they saw some foul on TV by a tournament player.

Ha ha was it Tiger the TV viewers called in about, that he had moved his ball an inch or two? And it was proven from another camera angle later that it never moved? I think this was 10 years ago.

 

[jay helfert]

I won't go into detail about what I do, but my profession requires that I have high quality video equipment. Although, no matter how high quality equipment is, it can only record with as much quality as whatever camera was used to record the original video. When I played the YouTube video, it seemed to me that Shane may've fouled, but I wasn't sure.

When I recorded the YouTube video with my recorder, and viewed it in slow motion, it was absolutely clear that Shane did not foul. The cue ball actually passed slightly below Shane's cue. Another thing that was obvious from the angle directly above, was that there was no deviation of the path of the cue ball, as it passed below the cue. If you view it from above, in slow motion, neither the speed or path of the cue ball, is changed, as it passes by Shane's cue.

Again...I could not see these things clearly when viewing the YouTube video.

What video did you watch? I didn't see any video from above. The camera angle was maybe 45% or less, not a direct overhead shot. The video I watched in slow motion definitely had an instant where the tip of Shane's cue was hidden by the cue ball. It was at that exact moment that the cue ball path changed.

 

[iusedtoberich]

What video did you watch? I didn't see any video from above. The camera angle was maybe 45% or less, not a direct overhead shot. The video I watched in slow motion definitely had an instant where the tip of Shane's cue was hidden by the cue ball. It was at that exact moment that the cue ball path changed.

Post #9 by claymont in this thread has the link to the overhead shot. It was at the end of the rack. They showed each shot a second time from overhead.

 

[jay helfert]

Post #9 by claymont in this thread has the link to the overhead shot. It was at the end of the rack. They showed each shot a second time from overhead.

I was unable to watch that shot in slow motion, so it wasn't that useful.