Well said!
Switching back to normal shafts
- Thread starter victorl
- Start date
Well said!
Very nice post. I think you make an excellent observation about the "fact" of lower deflection (squirt) yet this not necessarily helping everyone. I agree with you. It *might* not. I cannot personally think of an example of why it wouldn't...However, I use a pretty long bridge. For me, I find that back-hand english works amazingly well, almost scary well. I honestly have not experimented with pivot points, and haven't seen any evidence to suggest this phenomena actually does anything. I'm not saying there isn't evidence, I just haven't come across it. I haven't looked for it either ;-)
I could like some in this thread conclude that talk about the pivot point is just a bunch of hype, because I really don't know much about that topic. But for me to do that would be foolish. Thus I conclude that I *don't know* about pivot points. I also conclude that your example about matching the pivot point to your bridge length might indeed have a real benefit. However, I am not aware of anything directly correlating amount of deflection (squirt) with pivot point. It would be an interesting study.
Finally, your comment (paraphrasing Sean) about all trying to get to the point of internalizing the shots, is great. I agree, it is the ultimate goal. My personal belief is that the quickest route to that goal for the majority of people is by using a low deflection shaft like Predator or others. I also believe that there are MANY people who would benefit from a LD shaft, but haven't given it a *serious*, *intelligent* try out because they believe it is all hype. 10 years ago, believing the Predator claims were hype without trying one would be almost understandable, since it was new at the time. I still can't understand forming an opinion on something and sticking firm to that opinion without actually seeing for yourself. (remember the part about an *intelligent* trial, not just banging a few shots, concluding its different and therefore crap, and dismissing it). But anyway, 10 years ago it would almost make a little sense. But it seems that 10 years is not enough for some to learn some relatively simple information. The concept is not that difficult, there are MANY MANY players who understand their game and believe the Predator shaft makes a difference. There are MANY top pros using Predator shafts...All this evidence, yet people still say "its all hype" with a straight face?
Sorry to vent...ignorance is a pet peeve of mine. I get not knowing. But *wanting* to not know is something I will never understand.
KMRUNOUT
Im sure its different for everyone. I played LD shafts for quite a while years ago. Still have a ton of them as well as partials never made up. To me, feel is just as important as any other factor and after revisiting some sweet old maple shafts and realizing what I was missing, I went back. I guess I'm one of the few that don't see the mystic surrounding deflection. Like others have stated there is no zero deflection shafts period, whether it be more or less between different shafts, corrections still have to be made. Personally, I never had much difficulty switching back. In fact I think it took longer going TO ld than it did coming back from it.
PROOF..............
It's the indian (native american) not the arrow...............
Kim
They are low deflection, no doubt about it. There is still a need to accommodate for deflection though. Weird comparison but I'll give it a shot anyway. If you were throw a frisbee to me for an hour and adjusted to actually throwing it to my left about 4 feet for it to sail right to me, then we switched to a different frisbee and you found you had to aim 8 feet to my left for it to come right to me do you think one is more accurate than the other? I don't. I just think you need to throw the same one all the time to perfect it. I'm not trying to hijack this guys thread...... This is my opinion only but if you think about it, it's pretty true.
Perhaps true, but it would most likely be easier to learn at four feet offset first, then learn to throw at eight feet. Some posters have said a LD shaft is good for learning how to use side spin. Once you learn, you can transition to a standard maple shaft without much trouble. I tend to agree.
But it's best not to change shafts, so why change from LD if you are already used to it? For me, it the solid feel. Others don't care. To each his own.
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I played with a 314/2 and an OB1 and they both played very well. I was constantly razzed by a few regulars at the pool hall for using a LD shaft, and I got tired of hearing it, and I also had a nice scruggs shaft I wanted to play with, so I sold the LD shafts and went back to the standard maple shafts. I nearly quit playing pool as a result. An easy throw shot one foot from the pocket felt like a nearly impossible feat. I was so frustrated and pissed at myself I almost quit. After about 2 months I started to get my confidence back, but I still believe I played a little bit better with the LD shafts. I keep threatening to pick up an OB Classic, but the fear of transitioning back is keeping me from doing it.
Joe
Joe
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I had said the part about consistency in your last post I agreed with. I just believe that due to the way margins of error work and propagate, the larger the difference from "correct", the larger the error can be. In other words, I think one can learn to compensate a little bit more easily than one can learn to compensate a lot. With something like the Predator Z2 shaft, which has about the least deflection of anything I've seen or tried, for medium length shots or shorter, with smaller amounts of english, you get pretty close to *no* deflection. Still some, but so little that you will almost never miss because of it.
I could not agree more, however, that if you want to get better the fastest, make a decision on what cue and shaft to go with, go with it, and don't change.
KMRUNOUT
Everyone is different I guess. I bought an LD shaft a couple of months ago, and I am still making the adjustment (I only play an hour or two per week in the summer). I am probably playing within a ball of where I was before the change, but I'm not quite right yet. I can hit my top gear with it, but it requires a huge expenditure of mental energy, as I have to bear down on even the simplest of shots if I need precise cueball movement. For my style of play, the LD shaft is much more difficult to use, and far less forgiving than a traditional shaft.
I know for some people exactly the opposite is true, and I just chalk that up to different play styles. If you are not solidly in one of those two camps, then I don't see anything wrong with choosing a shaft based on the feel of the hit. As for myself, I only play serious pool for about 4 months out of the year (Oct to Feb), and I am going to give the LD shaft one competitive season before I pass judgment on it. If I decide to switch back, I will do it in the summer because I know it will take a while for me to adjust again.
Aaron
I know for some people exactly the opposite is true, and I just chalk that up to different play styles. If you are not solidly in one of those two camps, then I don't see anything wrong with choosing a shaft based on the feel of the hit. As for myself, I only play serious pool for about 4 months out of the year (Oct to Feb), and I am going to give the LD shaft one competitive season before I pass judgment on it. If I decide to switch back, I will do it in the summer because I know it will take a while for me to adjust again.
Aaron
Thanks for the replies guys. Seems like there are a lot of different opinions on this subject. I don't feel there is a need to debate which is better because both have their merits and faults which are well-documented.
For me, this has nothing to do with being old-fashioned or nostalgic. I am trying to switch because I honestly believe it will improve my game. With the stiffer shaft, the cue ball jumps right off the tip of the cue and I feel I can get the same action with less power. Stun shots and draw shots feel cleaner and more consistent but the biggest thing I've noticed is that I can shoot straight pool break shots with less power and more control, which has immediately improved my 14.1 game. I found I was always forcing shots with my LD shaft.
Also, it's hard to explain but the predator feels dead to me now, whereas the SW feels like the way a cue is supposed to hit. I've fallen in love and there's no going back.
Thanks to Lou and everyone else who posted about how long it took to change back. Right now, I'm thinking about turning down the shaft to 12.5 to reduce the deflection slightly and speed up the process a little.
For me, this has nothing to do with being old-fashioned or nostalgic. I am trying to switch because I honestly believe it will improve my game. With the stiffer shaft, the cue ball jumps right off the tip of the cue and I feel I can get the same action with less power. Stun shots and draw shots feel cleaner and more consistent but the biggest thing I've noticed is that I can shoot straight pool break shots with less power and more control, which has immediately improved my 14.1 game. I found I was always forcing shots with my LD shaft.
Also, it's hard to explain but the predator feels dead to me now, whereas the SW feels like the way a cue is supposed to hit. I've fallen in love and there's no going back.
Thanks to Lou and everyone else who posted about how long it took to change back. Right now, I'm thinking about turning down the shaft to 12.5 to reduce the deflection slightly and speed up the process a little.
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I know exactly what you mean. That dead feeling kept me from getting a Predator shaft for a LONG time. I also LOVE the feel of a Southwest. I shot with a Kersenbrock with a old micarta ferrule...I swear the thing had no more deflection than my Predator...but damn did it hit sweet.
KMRUNOUT
I know how you feel!
Predator shafts improved my pool game a lot and not having to allow much in my aim for deflection gave me more confidence that I'd make some of the harder shots. I've owned many pool cues in my life and I always had to have a predator shaft that would fit my cue. My problem is I prefer the hit and feel of a solid maple shaft, but I've been playing with predator shafts for so long that I don't have any confidence in making a medium hard cut shot if I have to use side spin to get position for my next shot. I just aim without worrying about deflection with my Predator shaft, but I have to guess about how much to allow for deflection with my solid maple shaft (which I prefer). I've tried to go back to solid maple shafts a couple of times, but my game suffered so badly I went back to the predator shaft quickly.
James
Predator shafts improved my pool game a lot and not having to allow much in my aim for deflection gave me more confidence that I'd make some of the harder shots. I've owned many pool cues in my life and I always had to have a predator shaft that would fit my cue. My problem is I prefer the hit and feel of a solid maple shaft, but I've been playing with predator shafts for so long that I don't have any confidence in making a medium hard cut shot if I have to use side spin to get position for my next shot. I just aim without worrying about deflection with my Predator shaft, but I have to guess about how much to allow for deflection with my solid maple shaft (which I prefer). I've tried to go back to solid maple shafts a couple of times, but my game suffered so badly I went back to the predator shaft quickly.
James
I agree...a friend just had a custom cue made after shooting with a local cuemakers cue and getting less "squirt" than with his 314/2. The right combination of tip, taper, diamater, and ferrule can reduce deflection in a hardwood shaft drasticaly.