T.O.I by randyg

randyg said:
I just came off the practice table. Two complete hours of pure ball pocketing. Masters League tonight, I might just be ready for the Big Boys.

TOI worked great. I'm satisfied that TOI is a major aiming system.

randyg
Click to expand...

I look forward to talking face to face with you about it! Maybe CJ could join us for dinner Friday or Saturday night...my treat!

Ken
 
Aiming System, Method, or Technique?

I bought CJ's dvd and have been following this thread. What would you call TOI? I really would like to know. John Brumback calls his system of banking balls a method? Would that be a fair comparison?
 
Iggy

First off Welcome back Randy.
I've been in the computer world for 25 years and never knew you could Iggy someone in forums. Goes to show old men can learn new tricks. Best part they think you are reading their posts. Kinda like my wife talking to me when I'm watching a SVB stream.
Enough Said. Let's get on with the show.
 
Glad to see that Randy is posting on this thread again. I like to read what people write that know what they are talking about. There are some of us that don't post a lot that get a lot out of this forum. Someday, I might share some of my journey with pool, but now is not the time. I am 63 and still learning new things and having one heck of a good time doing it. Let's hear some more from Randy, and what his take on TOI is.
 
a transition happens and you will find yourself discovering a different philosophy

lstevedus said:
I bought CJ's dvd and have been following this thread. What would you call TOI? I really would like to know. John Brumback calls his system of banking balls a method? Would that be a fair comparison?
Click to expand...

I call it both a playing technique and a system for playing the Game. At first it may seem like an "aiming system," and then you will start to
'RealEyes' this style of play changes the angles and patters and suddenly makes the game easier overall. Then a transition happens and you will find yourself discovering a different philosophy of the game... you will start seeing only one shot.....the correct TOI shot {the reasons will be clear}.

We used this style on the road gambling because it gave us the ability to beat the "home town champions" all on their home tables. With the TOI it doesn't matter if the table rolls off or the cloth is worn, because you hit the same speed, create angles the same and hit the INSIDE of the cue ball EVERY time you can.

The exceptions are changing the angle off a rail or curving the cue ball....and sometimes if the balls are very close together you may way to "spin it in," other than that the foundation is you can get position on any shot using the TOI....and other way adds extra calculations, thus lessens margin of error.

It took me over 11 hours to explain the first video and we reduced it to a concentrated 90 minutes. I can see there's an advanced chapter I'll need to do sometime soon, for now I'll continue to answer the advanced questions at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com .... 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Last edited:
Sliding Cue Ball

One Pocket John said:
Thanks Randy.

I have been spinning in balls and playing position on shots for over 50 years.

I only have a couple of hundred hours in TOI. The most difficult challenge for me has been getting position on the next shot without using spin and just using speed control and TOI for position play. Its a whole new way of playing the game for me.

I would imagine, over time, I will feel more comfortable using TOI. I practice it everyday. Its a slow learning process for me.

I hope that you will see the value of using TOI as I have.

You have to hit the cue ball a lot harder than you would think. A sliding cue ball is the secret.....maybe not a secret anymore. :wink:

Can hardly wait for your comments. :)

Once again, thanks :)

John
Click to expand...

John,
Im late into this thread but I read your above post. I was down with a foot about a month ago and watching you tubes and found this guy who...im thinking billiard instruction .com....who has a series of you tubes one of them was using the principle of a sliding cue ball....he used 1/4 tip of top to get 1 diamond of travel above stun speed and 1/2 tip of bottom to get 1 diamond travel backwards stroking at stun speed. I found this invaluable for One Pocket because Cue Ball Control many times at short distances....is where its at...being able to hide ball....I love One Pocket as well...just dont get to play it much..great game....love it.....check this guy out he refers to himself as "The Oyster" he is down in Florida and from what I can see...this guy knows a lot of reference methods.
 
There is not doubt "The Oyster" is very knowledgeable. To get a real idea of his nature try searching the threads for him.

336Robin said:
John,
check this guy out he refers to himself as "The Oyster" he is down in Florida and from what I can see...this guy knows a lot of reference methods.
Click to expand...
 
336Robin said:
John,
Im late into this thread but I read your above post. I was down with a foot about a month ago and watching you tubes and found this guy who...im thinking billiard instruction .com....who has a series of you tubes one of them was using the principle of a sliding cue ball....he used 1/4 tip of top to get 1 diamond of travel above stun speed and 1/2 tip of bottom to get 1 diamond travel backwards stroking at stun speed. I found this invaluable for One Pocket because Cue Ball Control many times at short distances....is where its at...being able to hide ball....I love One Pocket as well...just dont get to play it much..great game....love it.....check this guy out he refers to himself as "The Oyster" he is down in Florida and from what I can see...this guy knows a lot of reference methods.
Click to expand...

Thanks Robin,

I have watched all of the Oyster videos and think they are very good.

There are a series of videos (3) available online By Tor Lowery each costing $ 8.99. He is an excellent instructor.

These videos are probably the most helpful for those wishing to improve their game.

Visit his site at http://www.zerox-billiards.com/pool-banking-systems.html

I have all three, Kicking, Banking and Secrets 2. Being a 1P player, all three have helped. You wont be disappointed.:wink:

I need to apologize to RandyG. Its your TOI thread. Please continue. :smile:

Cant wait to hear more about your experiences with TOI.

Talk to you later

John
 
Last edited:
The TOI teaches how to develop that feel/touch for yourself

lstevedus said:
Glad to see that Randy is posting on this thread again. I like to read what people write that know what they are talking about. There are some of us that don't post a lot that get a lot out of this forum. Someday, I might share some of my journey with pool, but now is not the time. I am 63 and still learning new things and having one heck of a good time doing it. Let's hear some more from Randy, and what his take on TOI is.
Click to expand...

One thing that I want to make clear is then you use the "Touch" of inside, the TOUCH is not a unit of measurement, it's literally a touch or feel you get from the cue ball that you won't experience any other way. Using the center or outside of the cue ball does not give same kinesthetic feedback.

In the upcoming Touch of Inside Pivot System (TIPS) I make this very clear with the system I use for banking in 9 Ball, One Pocket, 8 Ball, and Bank Pool. Shot making and banking are the same when you use the cue ball to create the angles....Pocket Billiards is primarily creating angles.

You will rarely hear a champion player talk about how well they're seeing to win a tournament, however, you will hear them talk about the great "Touch or Feel" they had that week or that specific tournament to give them the winning edge.

The TOI teaches how to develop that feel/touch for yourself, a step by step process in discovering, then developing this unique skill. The Touch of Inside is an overall playing system that takes the geometry of the pool table and blends it into how you strike the cue ball, so the cue ball is the target, and the cue ball is where the ultimate touch and feel in concealed. Now it's being revealed for anyone that wants to experience it for themselves. 'The Game will be their Teacher'
 
Last edited:
CJ Wiley said:
One thing that I want to make clear is then you use the "Touch" of inside, the TOUCH is not a unit of measurement, it's literally a touch or feel you get from the cue ball that you won't experience any other way. Using the center or outside of the cue ball does not give same kinesthetic feedback.

In the upcoming Touch of Inside Pivot System (TIPS) I make this very clear with the system I use for banking in 9 Ball, One Pocket, 8 Ball, and Bank Pool. Shot making and banking are the same when you use the cue ball to create the angles....Pocket Billiards is primarily creating angles.

You will rarely hear a champion player talk about how well they're seeing to win a tournament, however, you will hear them talk about the great "Touch or Feel" they had that week or that specific tournament to give them the winning edge.

The TOI teaches how to develop that feel/touch for yourself, a step by step process in discovering, then developing this unique skill. The Touch of Inside is an overall playing system that takes the geometry of the pool table and blends it into how you strike the cue ball, so the cue ball is the target, and the cue ball is where the ultimate touch and feel in concealed. Now it's being revealed for anyone that wants to experience it for themselves. 'The Game will be their Teacher'
Click to expand...

Sorry CJ, why would i rely on touch and feel when one can hit cue ball center for 100% accuracy and pocketing, all it takes good aiming and straight stroke of which is the basic requiremnt for any shot.
Everyone that plays pool can make the easy shots no matter what english they use, it is when the CB is far away from OB and OB far from pocket are the shots that people wants to make, those key shots that gets you in the game; having said that, in pool we try to minimize injecting possibility of adding errors, with center hit (if the shot can be hit that way to satisfy position) the variables that could cause errors are limited to few, why introduce other complex variables and feel to the already hard shot. I agree some thin cuts close to 90 degrees can benefit from TOI but those are few, and at times hitting with inside or outside is necessary for position.
 
Last edited:
naji said:
Sorry CJ, why would i rely on touch and feel when one can hit cue ball center for 100% accuracy and pocketing, all it takes good aiming and straight stroke of which is the basic requiremnt for any shot.
Everyone that plays pool can make the easy shots no matter what english they use, it is when the CB is far away from OB and OB far from pocket are the shots that people wants to make, those key shots that gets you in the game; having said that, in pool we try to minimize injecting possibility of adding errors, with center hit (if the shot can be hit that way to satisfy position) the variables that could cause errors are limited to few, why introduce other complex variables and feel to the already hard shot. I agree some thin cuts close to 90 degrees can benefit from TOI but those are few, and at times hitting with inside or outside is necessary for position.
Click to expand...

I've asked this myself.:confused:
(I understand the principle).If one stays away from certain type of hits does this increase his playing ability over time.Not sure but I wouldnt think so.To me it seems like we should know how to come at a shot with all its possibilities.
 
Last edited:
8pack said:
I've asked this myself.:confused:
(I understand the principle).If one stays away from certain type of hits does this increase his playing ability over time.Not sure but I wouldnt think so.To me it seems like we should know how to come at a shot with all its possibilities.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Every one that plays pool must learn how to shoot the 4000 shots possibilities, no exception. If CJ said TOI, and TOO then i will be fine with it.
 
It's certainly not "bland". ;) 'The Game is Delicious'

naji said:
Sorry CJ, why would i rely on touch and feel when one can hit cue ball center for 100% accuracy and pocketing, all it takes good aiming and straight stroke of which is the basic requiremnt for any shot.
Everyone that plays pool can make the easy shots no matter what english they use, it is when the CB is far away from OB and OB far from pocket are the shots that people wants to make, those key shots that gets you in the game; having said that, in pool we try to minimize injecting possibility of adding errors, with center hit (if the shot can be hit that way to satisfy position) the variables that could cause errors are limited to few, why introduce other complex variables and feel to the already hard shot. I agree some thin cuts close to 90 degrees can benefit from TOI but those are few, and at times hitting with inside or outside is necessary for position.
Click to expand...

If you believe center is 100% accuracy then I have to wonder what you're searching for. I think in your "heart of hearts" you "real eyes" this is a fallacy and hitting the center of the cue ball is like eating Tofu.

You will rarely understand why I get better feel and touch {by favoring the inside of the cue ball}, until a commitment to experiencing it. It's a huge advantage in my game and I think it's ironic after guarding the technique for so long that there's players that still doubt it's effectiveness.

Although after filming this new TOI Banking Video it's much easier for anyone to see how the angles are created with bank shots, sometimes the pocket is a "stumbling block," and keeps some players from seeing pocket billiards is simply creating angles on every shot.

Just like in golf, tennis, bowling and even baseball, there's more control and margin of error when curving the ball sightly with spin, only with pool, the ball's on the table so you must do it by favoring one side of the cue ball. The inside, if given a choice is the best because it cuts the ball more, not less, which maximizes margin of error in the pocket zone.

This enables you to align at one side of the pocket and accelerate the cue ball into the center, there's NO FEELING like creating zones in sports and games.....and of course I can explain this a thousand times and someone will rarely understand it until they experience it for themselves. When they do their game will increase exponentially, and enjoyment for the game will increase as a direct result of playing better, with real confidence.

It's like eating a particular food, I can describe it a thousand different ways, communicating as well as possible, and you still won't know what it tastes like until you commit the food to your own taste buds. Such is Life.

The Touch of Inside is a tad "salty".... certainly not "bland". ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'
filet.jpg
 
Last edited:
CJ Wiley said:
If you believe center is 100% accuracy then I have to wonder what you're searching for. I think in your "heart of hearts" you "real eyes" this is a fallacy and hitting the center of the cue ball is like eating Tofu.

You will rarely understand why I get better feel and touch {by favoring the inside of the cue ball}, until a commitment to experiencing it. It's a huge advantage in my game and I think it's ironic after guarding the technique for so long that there's players that still doubt it's effectiveness.

Although after filming this new TOI Banking Video it's much easier for anyone to see how the angles are created with bank shots, sometimes the pocket is a "stumbling block," and keeps some players from seeing pocket billiards is simply creating angles on every shot.

Just like in golf, tennis, bowling and even baseball, there's more control and margin of error when curving the ball sightly with spin, only with pool, the ball's on the table so you must do it by favoring one side of the cue ball. The inside, if given a choice is the best because it cuts the ball more, not less, which maximizes margin of error in the pocket zone.

This enables you to align at one side of the pocket and accelerate the cue ball into the center, there's NO FEELING like creating zones in sports and games.....and of course I can explain this a thousand times and someone will rarely understand it until they experience it for themselves. When they do their game will increase exponentially, and enjoyment for the game will increase as a direct result of playing better, with real confidence.

It's like eating a particular food, I can describe it a thousand different ways, communicating as well as possible, and you still won't know what it tastes like until you commit the food to your own taste buds. Such is Life.

The Touch of Inside is a tad "salty".... certainly not "bland". ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'
filet.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for reply, I by no means doubting your ability of using TOI, you have hit millions of balls, and you, CJ, is very comfortable of using any english and make the shot. As myself, i know where is my CB center and i can accurately aim exactly at a pin point spot on OB and will make almost all shots even very thin cuts and long shots.
I am one pocket player, i play soft speed center, center high, center low most of times and accurate, sure at times near rail shots jacked up i miss, but i learn to double check tip contact.
CB path with either Left or right english is usually on target it squirts a little, but it returns to the same path, if slightly elevated it swerves more than squirt. So only time is use TOI is when i hit CB with speed so squirt only take action. I do shoot with english and highly accurate too.

But i am having difficulty of you favoring TOI over TOO, if you add TOO i will be 1st one to say it is the best system in the world!!

Also steak on me!!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top