Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) for measuring table "toughness"

T411 said:
I think your you should title it TPF… Table Preference Factor. The most difficult table is a table that has not been leveled well and nobody prefers that. Even then your competition plays on the same table. Everything else is preferences and that personal.
Click to expand...

There are many factors that can affect how a table plays. See the "Doesn’t side pocket geometry and other factors like cloth and cushion conditions also affect a table’s toughness?" section on the TDF resource page. I think the TDF name is still appropriate based on all the other info on that page.
 
Here's the latest summary of all data reported to date:


​
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays relative to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the TDF calculator or TDF spreadsheet to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 1/4", 1 1/4", 2 1/4" - 1.48 (1920s Brunswick)
CaptiveBred - 10', 4 1/8", >143.5°, 1 1/2" - 1.43 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Flakeandrun - 9', 4", 1/4", 1 1/8" - 1.41 (Diamond)
Flakeandrun - 9', 4 1/8", 9/16", 1.5" - 1.37 (Aileex)
Bob Dixon - 9', 4", 145°, 1 5/8" - 1.37 (Diamond)
gregcantrall - 10', 4", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 1.31 (Diamond)
SKILLZELITE - 9', 4 1/8", 144°, 1.5" - 1.30 (GC3)
Ricky Sy - 9', 3 3/4", 1/4", 5/8" - 1.25 (money table)
TEAM SLO - 9', 3.85", 0.6", 1.5" - 1.24 (Diamond)
acedonkeyace - 9", 4", 1/2", 2" - 1.22 (gamble table)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 1/4", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.22 (Gabriel Sentinel)
8cree - 9", 4.125", 0.813", 1.562" - 1.21 (Diamond)
Bonus Ball - 9', 3 7/8", 1/8", 3/4" - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9', 4 1/8", 13/16", 1" - 1.18 (Brunswick Tournament)
takechiyo - 9', 10cm, 1.2cm, 3.5cm - 1.18 (GC5)
chevybob20 - 9', 4 1/8", 7/8", 1" - 1.18 (Centennial)
Baxter - 9', 4 1/4", 143°, 1 1/8" - 1.18 (AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9', 4 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/8" - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+, 3 13/16", 9/16", 7/8" - 1.16 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9', 4", 1/8", 1 3/8" - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 3/8", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.15 (Gabriel Sentinel)
rexus31 - 9', 4", 3/8", 1" - 1.15 (1950s AMF)
FatBoy - 9', 4", 1/4", 1" - 1.14 (GC)
TATE - 9', 4", 1/4", 7/8" - 1.14 (GC)
Phreaticus - 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
Mikjary - 9', 4", 9/16", 1 5/16" - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9', 4 1/8", 5/8", 1 1/4" - 1.13 (Gabriel Signature)
rexus31 - 9', 4.125", 0.505", 1.125" - 1.12 (GC)
Cardigan Kid - 10', 4.5", 0.88", 1.5" - 1.12 (GC)
Ralph Kramden - 9', 4 5/16", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.12 (GC)
pocket - 9', 4 3/16", 7/16", 1 7/8" - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8', 4", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 1.12 (Olhausen)
Double-Dave - 6', 3.55", 0.3", 1" - 1.12 (Maxima)
Jaden S - 9’, 4 1/4”, 3/4”, 1 3/8” - 1.11 (Olhausen)
ShaneVanNothin - 9', 4 1/4", 1", 2" - 1.10 (Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.10 (Valley)
MahnaMahna - 10', 5 1/2", 2", 2 1/2" - 1.09 (converted from snooker table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+, 4", 141°, 1 1/4" - 1.09 (unknown)
grobbs - 9', 4 1/4", 0.625", 1.5" - 1.09 (GC2)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/4", 0.45", 1 5/16" - 1.08 (GC2)
bbb - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC)
kanzzo - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC5)
Pubo - 8’, 4”, 1/4”, 1 1/4” - 1.08 (Rasson)
MSchaffer - 9', 4 7/16, 15/16", 1 5/8" - 1.07 (GC2)
cigardave - 9', 4 1/2", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.07 (Diamond)
peppersauce - 9', 4 1/4", 3/8", 1 1/4" - 1.06 (GC3)
Oilheadoug - 10', 4.5", 4.0", 0.5", 1.5" - 1.06 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 7/8", 1", 1 1/2" - 1.05 (1920s Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9', 4 1/4", 1/4", 15/16" - 1.05 (GC)
IbeAnEngineer - 9', 4.5", 1.0", 1.5" - 1.05 (GC)
JC - 9', 4 7/16", 143°, 1 3/8" - 1.05 (GC3)
TheGrandWazoo - 8', 4.15", 0.65", 1.5" - 1.05 (rebuilt Beach)
Banger - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 1.04 (GC3)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.75", 1.0" - 1.04 (custom)
Jimmorrison - 7', 3 7/8", 7/16", 3/4" - 1.03 (Ruxton)
laedco58 - 9’: 4.5", 0.75": 1.75" - 1.02 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/8" - 1.02 (Diamond)
jondrums - 9', 11.9cm, 2.5cm, 4.2cm - 1.02 (Diamond)
pw98 - 10', 5.0", 1.0", 1.0" - 1.02 (Brunswick Regent)
CoreyClark - 9', 5", 1", 2 1/8" - 1.02 (GC)
bignick31985 - 9', 4 3/8", 0.475", 1.5" - 1.01 (GC4)
"standard" table - 9', 4 7/16", 9/16", 1 5/8" - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
DeadStick - 9', 4.5", 0.625", 1.75" - 1.00 (1958 Brunswick Centennial)
BRKNRUN - 9', 4.3", 0.4", 1.5" - 1.00 (GC1)
Tennesseejoe- 9', 4.25", 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.00 (1912 Brunswick Saratoga)
coxcol15 - 7', 4.25", 1", 1.25" - 1.00 (Valley)
Goldball - 8', 12.2cm, 4cm, 5.4cm - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.5", 0.75" - 0.99 (Gandy Miss America)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1.5" - 0.99 (Olhausen)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/8" - 0.99 (GC2)
Call_me_Tom - 7', 4", 1/2", 1" - 0.99 (Valley)
MVPCues - 9', 4 1/2", 1/2", 1 5/8" - 0.98 (1902 Brunswick Jefferson)
oldschool1478 - 9', 4 1/2", 0.625", 1.5" - 0.98 (Diamond)
freds - 8'+, 4.9", 1.1", 1.8" - 0.98 (Gandy Big G)
cjr3559 - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (GC5 - Tournament)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/16" - 0.97 (GC3)
Korsakoff - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.97 (Diamond Paragon)
wigglybridge - 9', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 0.98 (rebuilt GC)
westcoast - 7', 4", 0", 1.5" - 0.98 (Valley)
BryanB - 9', 4 1/2"0, 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick)
Poolmanis - 9', 10.9cm, 1cm, 3.1cm - 0.97 (SAM)
Vahmurka - 9', 12.5cm, 20mm, 45mm - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9', 4 11/16", 143°, 1 3/16" - 0.97 (no-name)
Will Maynard - 9', 4 3/4", 1", 3/4" - 0.97 (1904 Brunswick Narragansett)
dzcues - 9', 4 7/8", 11/16", 1 15/16" - 0.96 (Diamond)
dr_dave - 9', 4 5/8", 9/16", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (modified Olhausen)
follownoone - 4.75", 0.75", 1.5" - 0.95 (GC4)
jviss - 9’, 4.98”, 0.76”, 1.625” - 0.95 (GC)
Hercus - 9’, 5”, 1", 1.5” - 0.95 (Brunswick Avalon II)
logical - 9', 5", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (GC2)
dzcues - 9', 5", 15/16", 1 1/2" - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+, 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8', 4 3/8", 3/4", 1" - 0.94 (Diamond)
jtaylor-996 - 8'+, 4.5", 0.5", 1.625" - 0.93 (Diamond)
Corwyn_8 - 9', 4 3/4", 1 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
Jedco - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.91 (GC)
beetle - 9', 13.1cm, 2.2cm, 4.3cm - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9', 11.5cm, 138.7°, 3.5cm - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.91 (GC)
iusedtoberich - 9', 5 1/8", 1":, 1 1/2" - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9', 5 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.89 (GC2)
mfinkelstein3 - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC3)
StraightPoolIU - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.88 (GC)
Vahmurka - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.87 (Connelly)
SloMoHolic - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.87 (Brunswick Medalist)
RobMan - 9', 5", 3/4", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
ljump12 - 8'+, 4 7/8", 4 1/8", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 8'+, 4 7/8", 7/8", 1 1/4" - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist)
buckshotshoey - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.85 (American Heritage)
nateobot - 7', 4 3/8", 1/2", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (custom)
angluse - 8'+, 4 5/8", 7/16", 1 3/16" - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8', 4 3/4", 5/8", 1 3/8" - 0.84 (Connelly)
BRussell - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/2" - 0.83 (Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9', 13cm, 1cm, 3.5cm - 0.82 (home)
jtaylor996 - 7', 5 1/8", 146°, 1.51" - 0.82 (Legacy)
loggerhead12 - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/4" - 0.81 (Brunswick Manchester II)
kanzzo - 9', 5 1/8", 139°, 1 1/4" - 0.80 ("Legends of Pocket Billiards" GC3)
Mooneye - 7', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.79 (Brunswick Ranchero)
dzcues - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 1/2" - 0.77 (Valley)
dr_dave - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 3/4" - 0.77 (Valley)
SloMoHolic - 6', 4 1/2", 0", 5/8" - 0.77 (Valley)
 
My table is an old Buckhorn that I had custom built several years ago, but recently refurbished and recovered with Simonis 860HR. Bucket pockets but brutal facing angle and deep pocket shelves. Here's its TDF:

Taz's Table.jpg
 
Here's the latest:

​
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays relative to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the TDF calculator or TDF spreadsheet to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 1/4", 1 1/4", 2 1/4" - 1.48 (1920s Brunswick)
CaptiveBred - 10', 4 1/8", >143.5°, 1 1/2" - 1.43 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Flakeandrun - 9', 4", 1/4", 1 1/8" - 1.41 (Diamond)
Flakeandrun - 9', 4 1/8", 9/16", 1.5" - 1.37 (Aileex)
Bob Dixon - 9', 4", 145°, 1 5/8" - 1.37 (Diamond)
gregcantrall - 10', 4", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 1.31 (Diamond)
SKILLZELITE - 9', 4 1/8", 144°, 1.5" - 1.30 (GC3)
Ricky Sy - 9', 3 3/4", 1/4", 5/8" - 1.25 (money table)
TEAM SLO - 9', 3.85", 0.6", 1.5" - 1.24 (Diamond)
acedonkeyace - 9", 4", 1/2", 2" - 1.22 (gamble table)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 1/4", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.22 (Gabriel Sentinel)
8cree - 9", 4.125", 0.813", 1.562" - 1.21 (Diamond)
Bonus Ball - 9', 3 7/8", 1/8", 3/4" - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9', 4 1/8", 13/16", 1" - 1.18 (Brunswick Tournament)
takechiyo - 9', 10cm, 1.2cm, 3.5cm - 1.18 (GC5)
chevybob20 - 9', 4 1/8", 7/8", 1" - 1.18 (Centennial)
Baxter - 9', 4 1/4", 143°, 1 1/8" - 1.18 (AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9', 4 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/8" - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+, 3 13/16", 9/16", 7/8" - 1.16 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9', 4", 1/8", 1 3/8" - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 3/8", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.15 (Gabriel Sentinel)
rexus31 - 9', 4", 3/8", 1" - 1.15 (1950s AMF)
FatBoy - 9', 4", 1/4", 1" - 1.14 (GC)
TATE - 9', 4", 1/4", 7/8" - 1.14 (GC)
Phreaticus - 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
Mikjary - 9', 4", 9/16", 1 5/16" - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9', 4 1/8", 5/8", 1 1/4" - 1.13 (Gabriel Signature)
rexus31 - 9', 4.125", 0.505", 1.125" - 1.12 (GC)
Cardigan Kid - 10', 4.5", 0.88", 1.5" - 1.12 (GC)
Ralph Kramden - 9', 4 5/16", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.12 (GC)
pocket - 9', 4 3/16", 7/16", 1 7/8" - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8', 4", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 1.12 (Olhausen)
Double-Dave - 6', 3.55", 0.3", 1" - 1.12 (Maxima)
Jaden S - 9’, 4 1/4”, 3/4”, 1 3/8” - 1.11 (Olhausen)
ShaneVanNothin - 9', 4 1/4", 1", 2" - 1.10 (Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.10 (Valley)
MahnaMahna - 10', 5 1/2", 2", 2 1/2" - 1.09 (converted from snooker table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+, 4", 141°, 1 1/4" - 1.09 (unknown)
grobbs - 9', 4 1/4", 0.625", 1.5" - 1.09 (GC2)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/4", 0.45", 1 5/16" - 1.08 (GC2)
bbb - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC)
kanzzo - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC5)
Pubo - 8’, 4”, 1/4”, 1 1/4” - 1.08 (Rasson)
MSchaffer - 9', 4 7/16, 15/16", 1 5/8" - 1.07 (GC2)
cigardave - 9', 4 1/2", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.07 (Diamond)
peppersauce - 9', 4 1/4", 3/8", 1 1/4" - 1.06 (GC3)
Oilheadoug - 10', 4.5", 4.0", 0.5", 1.5" - 1.06 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 7/8", 1", 1 1/2" - 1.05 (1920s Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9', 4 1/4", 1/4", 15/16" - 1.05 (GC)
IbeAnEngineer - 9', 4.5", 1.0", 1.5" - 1.05 (GC)
JC - 9', 4 7/16", 143°, 1 3/8" - 1.05 (GC3)
TheGrandWazoo - 8', 4.15", 0.65", 1.5" - 1.05 (rebuilt Beach)
Banger - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 1.04 (GC3)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.75", 1.0" - 1.04 (custom)
Jimmorrison - 7', 3 7/8", 7/16", 3/4" - 1.03 (Ruxton)
laedco58 - 9’: 4.5", 0.75": 1.75" - 1.02 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/8" - 1.02 (Diamond)
jondrums - 9', 11.9cm, 2.5cm, 4.2cm - 1.02 (Diamond)
pw98 - 10', 5.0", 1.0", 1.0" - 1.02 (Brunswick Regent)
CoreyClark - 9', 5", 1", 2 1/8" - 1.02 (GC)
bignick31985 - 9', 4 3/8", 0.475", 1.5" - 1.01 (GC4)
"standard" table - 9', 4 7/16", 9/16", 1 5/8" - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
DeadStick - 9', 4.5", 0.625", 1.75" - 1.00 (1958 Brunswick Centennial)
BRKNRUN - 9', 4.3", 0.4", 1.5" - 1.00 (GC1)
Tennesseejoe- 9', 4.25", 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.00 (1912 Brunswick Saratoga)
coxcol15 - 7', 4.25", 1", 1.25" - 1.00 (Valley)
Goldball - 8', 12.2cm, 4cm, 5.4cm - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.5", 0.75" - 0.99 (Gandy Miss America)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1.5" - 0.99 (Olhausen)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/8" - 0.99 (GC2)
Call_me_Tom - 7', 4", 1/2", 1" - 0.99 (Valley)
MVPCues - 9', 4 1/2", 1/2", 1 5/8" - 0.98 (1902 Brunswick Jefferson)
oldschool1478 - 9', 4 1/2", 0.625", 1.5" - 0.98 (Diamond)
freds - 8'+, 4.9", 1.1", 1.8" - 0.98 (Gandy Big G)
cjr3559 - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (GC5 - Tournament)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/16" - 0.97 (GC3)
Korsakoff - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.97 (Diamond Paragon)
wigglybridge - 9', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 0.98 (rebuilt GC)
westcoast - 7', 4", 0", 1.5" - 0.98 (Valley)
BryanB - 9', 4 1/2"0, 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick)
Poolmanis - 9', 10.9cm, 1cm, 3.1cm - 0.97 (SAM)
Vahmurka - 9', 12.5cm, 20mm, 45mm - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9', 4 11/16", 143°, 1 3/16" - 0.97 (no-name)
Will Maynard - 9', 4 3/4", 1", 3/4" - 0.97 (1904 Brunswick Narragansett)
dzcues - 9', 4 7/8", 11/16", 1 15/16" - 0.96 (Diamond)
dr_dave - 9', 4 5/8", 9/16", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (modified Olhausen)
follownoone - 4.75", 0.75", 1.5" - 0.95 (GC4)
jviss - 9’, 4.98”, 0.76”, 1.625” - 0.95 (GC)
Hercus - 9’, 5”, 1", 1.5” - 0.95 (Brunswick Avalon II)
logical - 9', 5", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (GC2)
dzcues - 9', 5", 15/16", 1 1/2" - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+, 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8', 4 3/8", 3/4", 1" - 0.94 (Diamond)
jtaylor-996 - 8'+, 4.5", 0.5", 1.625" - 0.93 (Diamond)
Taz - 8'+, 5", 1", 1.75" - 0.93 (Buckhorn)
Corwyn_8 - 9', 4 3/4", 1 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
Jedco - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.91 (GC)
beetle - 9', 13.1cm, 2.2cm, 4.3cm - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9', 11.5cm, 138.7°, 3.5cm - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.91 (GC)
iusedtoberich - 9', 5 1/8", 1":, 1 1/2" - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9', 5 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.89 (GC2)
mfinkelstein3 - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC3)
StraightPoolIU - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.88 (GC)
Vahmurka - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.87 (Connelly)
SloMoHolic - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.87 (Brunswick Medalist)
RobMan - 9', 5", 3/4", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
ljump12 - 8'+, 4 7/8", 4 1/8", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 8'+, 4 7/8", 7/8", 1 1/4" - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist)
buckshotshoey - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.85 (American Heritage)
nateobot - 7', 4 3/8", 1/2", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (custom)
angluse - 8'+, 4 5/8", 7/16", 1 3/16" - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8', 4 3/4", 5/8", 1 3/8" - 0.84 (Connelly)
BRussell - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/2" - 0.83 (Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9', 13cm, 1cm, 3.5cm - 0.82 (home)
jtaylor996 - 7', 5 1/8", 146°, 1.51" - 0.82 (Legacy)
loggerhead12 - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/4" - 0.81 (Brunswick Manchester II)
kanzzo - 9', 5 1/8", 139°, 1 1/4" - 0.80 ("Legends of Pocket Billiards" GC3)
Mooneye - 7', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.79 (Brunswick Ranchero)
dzcues - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 1/2" - 0.77 (Valley)
dr_dave - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 3/4" - 0.77 (Valley)
SloMoHolic - 6', 4 1/2", 0", 5/8" - 0.77 (Valley)
 
All right DD! Got a, new to me, table to add to the list. The Beach 8’ is down the road…

2004-5ish Diamond, Red Label Professional.

IMG_5789.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Here's the latest:

​
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays relative to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the TDF calculator or TDF spreadsheet to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 1/4", 1 1/4", 2 1/4" - 1.48 (1920s Brunswick)
CaptiveBred - 10', 4 1/8", >143.5°, 1 1/2" - 1.43 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Flakeandrun - 9', 4", 1/4", 1 1/8" - 1.41 (Diamond)
Flakeandrun - 9', 4 1/8", 9/16", 1.5" - 1.37 (Aileex)
Bob Dixon - 9', 4", 145°, 1 5/8" - 1.37 (Diamond)
gregcantrall - 10', 4", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 1.31 (Diamond)
SKILLZELITE - 9', 4 1/8", 144°, 1.5" - 1.30 (GC3)
Ricky Sy - 9', 3 3/4", 1/4", 5/8" - 1.25 (money table)
TEAM SLO - 9', 3.85", 0.6", 1.5" - 1.24 (Diamond)
acedonkeyace - 9", 4", 1/2", 2" - 1.22 (gamble table)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 1/4", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.22 (Gabriel Sentinel)
8cree - 9", 4.125", 0.813", 1.562" - 1.21 (Diamond)
Bonus Ball - 9', 3 7/8", 1/8", 3/4" - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9', 4 1/8", 13/16", 1" - 1.18 (Brunswick Tournament)
takechiyo - 9', 10cm, 1.2cm, 3.5cm - 1.18 (GC5)
chevybob20 - 9', 4 1/8", 7/8", 1" - 1.18 (Centennial)
Baxter - 9', 4 1/4", 143°, 1 1/8" - 1.18 (AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9', 4 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/8" - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+, 3 13/16", 9/16", 7/8" - 1.16 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9', 4", 1/8", 1 3/8" - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 3/8", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.15 (Gabriel Sentinel)
rexus31 - 9', 4", 3/8", 1" - 1.15 (1950s AMF)
FatBoy - 9', 4", 1/4", 1" - 1.14 (GC)
TATE - 9', 4", 1/4", 7/8" - 1.14 (GC)
Phreaticus - 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
Mikjary - 9', 4", 9/16", 1 5/16" - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9', 4 1/8", 5/8", 1 1/4" - 1.13 (Gabriel Signature)
rexus31 - 9', 4.125", 0.505", 1.125" - 1.12 (GC)
Cardigan Kid - 10', 4.5", 0.88", 1.5" - 1.12 (GC)
Ralph Kramden - 9', 4 5/16", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.12 (GC)
pocket - 9', 4 3/16", 7/16", 1 7/8" - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8', 4", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 1.12 (Olhausen)
Double-Dave - 6', 3.55", 0.3", 1" - 1.12 (Maxima)
Jaden S - 9’, 4 1/4”, 3/4”, 1 3/8” - 1.11 (Olhausen)
ShaneVanNothin - 9', 4 1/4", 1", 2" - 1.10 (Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.10 (Valley)
MahnaMahna - 10', 5 1/2", 2", 2 1/2" - 1.09 (converted from snooker table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+, 4", 141°, 1 1/4" - 1.09 (unknown)
grobbs - 9', 4 1/4", 0.625", 1.5" - 1.09 (GC2)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/4", 0.45", 1 5/16" - 1.08 (GC2)
bbb - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC)
kanzzo - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC5)
Pubo - 8’, 4”, 1/4”, 1 1/4” - 1.08 (Rasson)
MSchaffer - 9', 4 7/16, 15/16", 1 5/8" - 1.07 (GC2)
cigardave - 9', 4 1/2", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.07 (Diamond)
peppersauce - 9', 4 1/4", 3/8", 1 1/4" - 1.06 (GC3)
Oilheadoug - 10', 4.5", 4.0", 0.5", 1.5" - 1.06 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 7/8", 1", 1 1/2" - 1.05 (1920s Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9', 4 1/4", 1/4", 15/16" - 1.05 (GC)
IbeAnEngineer - 9', 4.5", 1.0", 1.5" - 1.05 (GC)
JC - 9', 4 7/16", 143°, 1 3/8" - 1.05 (GC3)
TheGrandWazoo - 8', 4.15", 0.65", 1.5" - 1.05 (rebuilt Beach)
Banger - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 1.04 (GC3)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.75", 1.0" - 1.04 (custom)
Jimmorrison - 7', 3 7/8", 7/16", 3/4" - 1.03 (Ruxton)
laedco58 - 9’: 4.5", 0.75": 1.75" - 1.02 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/8" - 1.02 (Diamond)
jondrums - 9', 11.9cm, 2.5cm, 4.2cm - 1.02 (Diamond)
pw98 - 10', 5.0", 1.0", 1.0" - 1.02 (Brunswick Regent)
CoreyClark - 9', 5", 1", 2 1/8" - 1.02 (GC)
bignick31985 - 9', 4 3/8", 0.475", 1.5" - 1.01 (GC4)
"standard" table - 9', 4 7/16", 9/16", 1 5/8" - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
DeadStick - 9', 4.5", 0.625", 1.75" - 1.00 (1958 Brunswick Centennial)
BRKNRUN - 9', 4.3", 0.4", 1.5" - 1.00 (GC1)
Tennesseejoe- 9', 4.25", 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.00 (1912 Brunswick Saratoga)
coxcol15 - 7', 4.25", 1", 1.25" - 1.00 (Valley)
Goldball - 8', 12.2cm, 4cm, 5.4cm - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.5", 0.75" - 0.99 (Gandy Miss America)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1.5" - 0.99 (Olhausen)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/8" - 0.99 (GC2)
Call_me_Tom - 7', 4", 1/2", 1" - 0.99 (Valley)
MVPCues - 9', 4 1/2", 1/2", 1 5/8" - 0.98 (1902 Brunswick Jefferson)
oldschool1478 - 9', 4 1/2", 0.625", 1.5" - 0.98 (Diamond)
freds - 8'+, 4.9", 1.1", 1.8" - 0.98 (Gandy Big G)
cjr3559 - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (GC5 - Tournament)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/16" - 0.97 (GC3)
TheGrandWazoo - 9', 4 5/8", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.97 (Diamond)
Korsakoff - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.97 (Diamond Paragon)
wigglybridge - 9', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 0.98 (rebuilt GC)
westcoast - 7', 4", 0", 1.5" - 0.98 (Valley)
BryanB - 9', 4 1/2"0, 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick)
Poolmanis - 9', 10.9cm, 1cm, 3.1cm - 0.97 (SAM)
Vahmurka - 9', 12.5cm, 20mm, 45mm - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9', 4 11/16", 143°, 1 3/16" - 0.97 (no-name)
Will Maynard - 9', 4 3/4", 1", 3/4" - 0.97 (1904 Brunswick Narragansett)
dzcues - 9', 4 7/8", 11/16", 1 15/16" - 0.96 (Diamond)
dr_dave - 9', 4 5/8", 9/16", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (modified Olhausen)
follownoone - 4.75", 0.75", 1.5" - 0.95 (GC4)
jviss - 9’, 4.98”, 0.76”, 1.625” - 0.95 (GC)
Hercus - 9’, 5”, 1", 1.5” - 0.95 (Brunswick Avalon II)
logical - 9', 5", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (GC2)
dzcues - 9', 5", 15/16", 1 1/2" - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+, 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8', 4 3/8", 3/4", 1" - 0.94 (Diamond)
jtaylor-996 - 8'+, 4.5", 0.5", 1.625" - 0.93 (Diamond)
Taz - 8'+, 5", 1", 1.75" - 0.93 (Buckhorn)
Corwyn_8 - 9', 4 3/4", 1 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
Jedco - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.91 (GC)
beetle - 9', 13.1cm, 2.2cm, 4.3cm - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9', 11.5cm, 138.7°, 3.5cm - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.91 (GC)
iusedtoberich - 9', 5 1/8", 1":, 1 1/2" - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9', 5 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.89 (GC2)
mfinkelstein3 - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC3)
StraightPoolIU - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.88 (GC)
Vahmurka - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.87 (Connelly)
SloMoHolic - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.87 (Brunswick Medalist)
RobMan - 9', 5", 3/4", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
ljump12 - 8'+, 4 7/8", 4 1/8", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 8'+, 4 7/8", 7/8", 1 1/4" - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist)
buckshotshoey - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.85 (American Heritage)
nateobot - 7', 4 3/8", 1/2", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (custom)
angluse - 8'+, 4 5/8", 7/16", 1 3/16" - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8', 4 3/4", 5/8", 1 3/8" - 0.84 (Connelly)
BRussell - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/2" - 0.83 (Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9', 13cm, 1cm, 3.5cm - 0.82 (home)
jtaylor996 - 7', 5 1/8", 146°, 1.51" - 0.82 (Legacy)
loggerhead12 - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/4" - 0.81 (Brunswick Manchester II)
kanzzo - 9', 5 1/8", 139°, 1 1/4" - 0.80 ("Legends of Pocket Billiards" GC3)
Mooneye - 7', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.79 (Brunswick Ranchero)
dzcues - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 1/2" - 0.77 (Valley)
dr_dave - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 3/4" - 0.77 (Valley)
SloMoHolic - 6', 4 1/2", 0", 5/8" - 0.77 (Valley)
 
iusedtoberich said:
Its because Dr Dave assigned 3x the factor for pockets than table size.

He has a multiplication factor for each of:

Pocket width
Pocket depth
Pocket angle
Table size

So if a pocket is a hair "tough" in width, depth, and angle, it would be .9 x .9 x .9 =0.729
The pocket thus accounts for 3 times as much as the table size in his calculator.

This does not match real life. Table size is far and away the largest factor in if you make the ball and get position to run out.
Click to expand...

The math does not work out that way. The fact that pockets have more variables (3) does NOT mean that they are getting 3 times the WEIGHT. There is no universal unit for comparing table length with pocket angle. So each is given a weight to reflect the degree to which they affect table difficulty. You might complain about those weights, but the math is sound.

Thank you kindly
 
This is wrong info.

Is there any evidence that pros in recent MR events with Diamond 4" pockets use less spin than events 10 years ago with Diamond 4.5" pockets? Or events 30 years ago with Brunswick 5" pockets?

No, there is not.

This is an example of a common misconception that using side spin should be a "last resort" instead of being used in about every single shot that's not dead straight in.

Please remove it:)

1755394441551.png
 
Corwyn_8 said:
The math does not work out that way. The fact that pockets have more variables (3) does NOT mean that they are getting 3 times the WEIGHT. There is no universal unit for comparing table length with pocket angle. So each is given a weight to reflect the degree to which they affect table difficulty. You might complain about those weights, but the math is sound.

Thank you kindly
Click to expand...
I agree, the math is correct, and rather the weighting is wrong.

On the chart, here are a few interesting examples:

1.02 9' Diamond with pro-cut pockets. 3 of them in a row at 1.02 so its probably fairly reliable.
.90 9' Gold Crown 4 with factory pockets (this is my table).
.85 7' Diamond with pro cut pockets
.80 9' Gold Crown 3 "Legends of Pocket Billiards" (IDK if this is the first or second table Shaw had his runs on).

First, in no planet in the universe is ANY 9' Gold Crown easier to play on than a 7' Diamond with pro-cut pockets. I will go broke betting on that. Play the 9 ball ghost 100 racks on each table, and count up the total number of balls made. It won't be close, the 7' will be a lot easier.

Second, you can see by this trend of the 4 tables I highlighted that more weight seems to be given to the pockets rather than the table size.

I know dr dave simply had to have some sort of a starting point. But imo it should have been adjusted all these years (and I have said the same thing for 12 years since this thread started) to never allow a situation like I just showed.

Distance is the hardest thing to overcome in pool. That's when things break down completely. When you are close to the ball, it makes little difference how tight the pockets are. You'll hit the pocket right where you want. But when you are far from the ball, all bets are off.

Edit to add:
The GC4 at .90 (my home table), and the 7' Diamond at .85 (not my measurement) is a small difference apart of .05. In real life, I played 9 ball ghost sets on my GC since I had it installed in 2012 until I tore it down a month ago. Prob a few hundred sets. I might have 10 total sets in that time where I beat the ghost a race to 7. (I'm a 570 fargorate). On the Diamond 7', I went to the pool hall last year and said I'm going to beat the ghost on it and not leave the room until I do. (first time I ever tried it on a 7' Diamond). I beat it the second set of the day.

I think the real world difference between these two tables is more like .5 (half). Not .05. That's how far off the weighting is on the table size, imo.
 
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iusedtoberich said:
I agree, the math is correct, and rather the weighting is wrong.

On the chart, here are a few interesting examples:

1.02 9' Diamond with pro-cut pockets. 3 of them in a row at 1.02 so its probably fairly reliable.
.90 9' Gold Crown 4 with factory pockets (this is my table).
.85 7' Diamond with pro cut pockets
.80 9' Gold Crown 3 "Legends of Pocket Billiards" (IDK if this is the first or second table Shaw had his runs on).

First, in no planet in the universe is ANY 9' Gold Crown easier to play on than a 7' Diamond with pro-cut pockets. I will go broke betting on that. Play the 9 ball ghost 100 racks on each table, and count up the total number of balls made. It won't be close, the 7' will be a lot easier.

Second, you can see by this trend of the 4 tables I highlighted that more weight seems to be given to the pockets rather than the table size.

I know dr dave simply had to have some sort of a starting point. But imo it should have been adjusted all these years (and I have said the same thing for 12 years since this thread started) to never allow a situation like I just showed.

Distance is the hardest thing to overcome in pool. That's when things break down completely. When you are close to the ball, it makes little difference how tight the pockets are. You'll hit the pocket right where you want. But when you are far from the ball, all bets are off.

Edit to add:
The GC4 at .90 (my home table), and the 7' Diamond at .85 (not my measurement) is a small difference apart of .05. In real life, I played 9 ball ghost sets on my GC since I had it installed in 2012 until I tore it down a month ago. Prob a few hundred sets. I might have 10 total sets in that time where I beat the ghost a race to 7. (I'm a 570 fargorate). On the Diamond 7', I went to the pool hall last year and said I'm going to beat the ghost on it and not leave the room until I do. (first time I ever tried it on a 7' Diamond). I beat it the second set of the day.

I think the real world difference between these two tables is more like .5 (half). Not .05. That's how far off the weighting is on the table size, imo.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your opinions, but I obviously disagree. I hope others will also share their experiences. The difficulty level of different tables obviously depends on the player and the game being played, but big pockets certainly make life easier for most people. Although, if you play good shape and keep shots easy, both table size and pocket tightness become less important. Concerning the Legends of Pocket Billiards GC, didn’t you see how easily some of the poorly hit balls were being sucked into the pockets?
 
TDF i just an index of difficulty, statistical purpose.
Otherwise, there is no practical value of it.
If you are in a match, you need to win, regardless of TDF, and when youre in a zone, they keep fallin in the middle of the pocket.
 
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iusedtoberich said:
I agree, the math is correct, and rather the weighting is wrong.

Second, you can see by this trend of the 4 tables I highlighted that more weight seems to be given to the pockets rather than the table size.

I know dr dave simply had to have some sort of a starting point. But imo it should have been adjusted all these years (and I have said the same thing for 12 years since this thread started) to never allow a situation like I just showed.

Distance is the hardest thing to overcome in pool. That's when things break down completely. When you are close to the ball, it makes little difference how tight the pockets are. You'll hit the pocket right where you want. But when you are far from the ball, all bets are off.


I think the real world difference between these two tables is more like .5 (half). Not .05. That's how far off the weighting is on the table size, imo.
Click to expand...
Earlier in this thread I gave what I thought might be good starts for table size weights based on the longest shot possible. Dave preferred his empirically determined weights. Perhaps you can influence him by making some empirical tests.

Dave has changed the weighting many times in the intervening years. Though I don't see that ANYONE has done as he requested and posted BU exam scores for multiple tables. So we are relying on people's opinions, and yours does not seem to match others.

A difference of 0.5 seems HUGE to me (depending on what that actually means).

Thank you kindly.
 
No system is perfect but DD's TDF is by far the best attempt at fairly comparing how tables play. I've played on a lot of tables and i'd say the system gives pretty accurate comparisons. What do i know i'm just a ball banger with 40yrs worth of different tables under my belt. DD's science works for me.
 
dr_dave said:
Thank you for your opinions, but I obviously disagree. I hope others will also share their experiences. The difficulty level of different tables obviously depends on the player and the game being played, but big pockets certainly make life easier for most people. Although, if you play good shape and keep shots easy, both table size and pocket tightness become less important. Concerning the Legends of Pocket Billiards GC, didn’t you see how easily some of the poorly hit balls were being sucked into the pockets?
Click to expand...
You're delusional if you think a 7' Diamond Pro-Am with Pro-Cut pockets is only .05 harder to play on than a 9' GC4 with factory pockets (not doctored like the Shaw table).

I know your contributions to pool are great, but this was a bad starting point, and you never fixed it.

Go play 200 racks of 9 ball ghost on each table. Count total balls pocketed across all games. 1 ball = 1 point. No bs like an extra bonus for running the rack. I'll donate 3,000 USD to the BEF if you get a better score on the 9' GC than the 7' Diamond. If you don't, you change your formula.

Won't find a better deal than that.

Edit: apply the TDF correction factor to the number of balls pocketed, not the 9' being outright more balls than the 7'.
 
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