Table Test Machine

J

JoeW

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Table speed is important when you go from one table to another. The balls, the rails, the cloth and the humidity among other things affect the table speed. When a player has developed their usual stroke speed it should be a simple matter to increase or decrease their stroke for different tables.

I have read Bob Jewett's comments about a speed test for gauging tables and it is time consuming but seemed to work for me. I believe that for a nine foot table a seven second return time from the bottom rail on a lag shot means the table is competition speed. This is a good way to gauge a table. The player might need several shots to get a return exactly to the head rail and of course there is the calculation of time problem for a reasonably accurate estimate. In addition, I can see a need to check the sides of a table. This would provide some information about the rails and cloth bias if needed. A faster test might be useful.

I am not sure but it seems that if one had a good measurement of a table's speed this might consciously or subconsciously affect their game in a positive way. With all of this in mind I have been trying to come up with something like a kid's dart gun.

The idea would be to place the gun against the rail. The dart would have a one inch block of wood covered with leather. A large bock would mean the CB would always be hit center ball. The gun would need some sort of slide adjustment for the length of table and cross table shots. In addition, it would probably be good to have a gun that could be set or marked for the player's home table (or the table they usually practice on).

Has anyone ever seen something like this or does anyone have any ideas about how to build such a device? Currently I am thinking about placing a spring in a tube that has some sort of adjustable triggering mechanism. There might be an easy way to make an adjustable triggering mechanism but I can't think of one that could be easily made by any guy.

A gun without an adjustable triggering mechanism might be one solution. The table speed would simply be the number of diamonds the CB travels. The number of diamonds the CB travels on a competition table would be the bench mark.
 
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JoeW...Mother Drill #5 is the perfect 'centergistic' for adjusting the speed of your stroke to ANY table (or any table conditions), in a few minutes. Of course, you have to have first mastered your personal shooting template, for this to work easily.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
JoeW said:
Table speed is important when you go from one table to another. The balls, the rails, the cloth and the humidity among other things affect the table speed. When a player has developed their usual stroke speed it should be a simple matter to increase or decrease their stroke for different tables.

I have read Bob Jewett's comments about a speed test for gauging tables and it is time consuming but seemed to work for me. I believe that for a nine foot table a seven second return time from the bottom rail on a lag shot means the table is competition speed. This is a good way to gauge a table. The player might need several shots to get a return exactly to the head rail and of course there is the calculation of time problem for a reasonably accurate estimate. In addition, I can see a need to check the sides of a table. This would provide some information about the rails and cloth bias if needed. A faster test might be useful.

I am not sure but it seems that if one had a good measurement of a table's speed this might consciously or subconsciously affect their game in a positive way. With all of this in mind I have been trying to come up with something like a kid's dart gun.

The idea would be to place the gun against the rail. The dart would have a one inch block of wood covered with leather. A large bock would mean the CB would always be hit center ball. The gun would need some sort of slide adjustment for the length of table and cross table shots. In addition, it would probably be good to have a gun that could be set or marked for the player's home table (or the table they usually practice on).

Has anyone ever seen something like this or does anyone have any ideas about how to build such a device? Currently I am thinking about placing a spring in a tube that has some sort of adjustable triggering mechanism. There might be an easy way to make an adjustable triggering mechanism but I can't think of one that could be easily made by any guy.

A gun without an adjustable triggering mechanism might be one solution. The table speed would simply be the number of diamonds the CB travels. The number of diamonds the CB travels on a competition table would be the bench mark.
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In golf I think its called a Stimph meter, named after its designer. I've heard is a block of wood, much like what you would put under a door to keep it from closing on its own. The golf ball just rides down the ramp and it should go only so far, if not they cut the grass more too add speed.
 
It wouldn't be very hard to make a machine for it.

All I think you would need is a hammer with a cue ball attacked to the head (to the ball it hits). And you would need a base that would allow it to swing down and just skin the clothe. And a realese switch so it will be consistant.

Set that up in the same spot with a ball in the right spot, pull the switch and see how are the object ball goes. from there calculate it out for diffrent speeds. And then you can take it and do tests on other tables.

I'm sure I am making no sense:sorry: , but beleive me when I say I can see this in my mind:eek: .

Pete
 
My son-in-law just stopped in for lunch during deer season so we talked about this for awhile. He is a pretty creative guy and basically had the same idea as suggested here.

Here is what I am gonna try. A PVC sweep elbow with a slot in it. Much simpler, no spring to wear out, and a device anyone can make and use. That was the goal in the first place.

I agree Scot that Mother Drill 5 helps one to adjust their speed to a table and is certainly what anyone should use on a new table. I am looking for something that is more consistent or more mechanical. More along the lines that we have all heard: "The table is fast." "The balls are dirty and roll funny." I would like to just bring out the shoe and clock the table and say, yeah it is one half diamond slower than when the cloth was installed.

Shuts up the other guy. Then too I am a measurement kinda guy and would like to have a reference number. Obviously not many people see the need for such a device or it would be available.
 
The Stimpmeter is an inclined plane, one of the simple machines. A triangular chunk of wood with a groove cut into it is all it would take. Anything more would be a Rube Goldberg machine, imo.

Of course the issue then becomes standardization. How high, how long, and what size and weight of cueball, etc.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
The Stimpmeter is an inclined plane, one of the simple machines. A triangular chunk of wood with a groove cut into it is all it would take. Anything more would be a Rube Goldberg machine, imo.

Of course the issue then becomes standardization. How high, how long, and what size and weight of cueball, etc.

Dave
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Years ago, I thought it a good idea when stretching/installing new cloth for a pro event, than the tension/speed of the cloth, end to end on the bed surface of each table should be within similar limits. Wonder what they do in snooker, thats allot of rag too pull.
 
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I agree with DaveK. All you need is a shallow wooden wedge with a groove. To be a "universal" measurement, all wedges would need to be standardized.
 
I have my own method to test bed speed, not yet figured out the rail rebound test.

I put on a windbreaker and run for 10 ft toward the pool table. I then dive up on it, keeping hands, feet and head off felt, then see how far I slide. Once I stop, I touch my nose to the felt and let a loogie roll out of my mouth.

Depending on distance of...ahh, forget it.
 
Black-Balled said:
I have my own method to test bed speed, not yet figured out the rail rebound test.

I put on a windbreaker and run for 10 ft toward the pool table. I then dive up on it, keeping hands, feet and head off felt, then see how far I slide. Once I stop, I touch my nose to the felt and let a loogie roll out of my mouth.

Depending on distance of...ahh, forget it.
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LOL, but what I want to know, how do you recover the rails :grin-square:
 
There is a ramp on the market to roll the cue ball down. This was discussed in the table mechanics section a few weeks ago. The impression I got after reading that thread is that the table mechanics thought it was a joke, and the seller of the product was ripping them off.

That is a good example of a device that could be standardized across the board that will give numerical results of a table's speed. But the people in the business, at least on this forum, don't seem to see its value.
 
iusedtoberich said:
There is a ramp on the market to roll the cue ball down. This was discussed in the table mechanics section a few weeks ago. The impression I got after reading that thread is that the table mechanics thought it was a joke, and the seller of the product was ripping them off.

That is a good example of a device that could be standardized across the board that will give numerical results of a table's speed. But the people in the business, at least on this forum, don't seem to see its value.
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I don't think its a matter of if, more like when it will happen. Once the sport evolves financially into a true profession, there will be a venue where cloth installation/tension will cause a problem. Probably not until this happens will the sport address this concern and recommend a cure...then...this type of device will have some value. It will first have to be approved by the pros to set the standardization of table speed.
 
iusedtoberich said:
There is a ramp on the market to roll the cue ball down. This was discussed in the table mechanics section a few weeks ago. The impression I got after reading that thread is that the table mechanics thought it was a joke, and the seller of the product was ripping them off.

That is a good example of a device that could be standardized across the board that will give numerical results of a table's speed. But the people in the business, at least on this forum, don't seem to see its value.[/QUOTE

I totally agree I simple ramp is all that is needed to replicate speed and distances accurately without any possible cueing errors such as english or speed. When I have done this a ramp the height of the rail will easily get you the full length of the table and then some. To adjust speed you can start up or down the ramp and can even predict where the ball will stop within an inch or two. You can just use the ruler from a combination square as a ramp which has a groove in it and also use the ruler to judge how far up or down the ramp you are starting the ball from to adjust speed. To go even further you can also place a cheap laser level behind the ball to track the ball and see if it is staying on target. I have a stanley laser level I bought on Ebay for just a few bucks.
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Diamond Billiard Products uses an aluminum ramp with a 4 degree incline to measure cloth speed. It has a groove machined in it for the ball to roll down. We always use the same ball to test speed with. This eliminates variances in weight and roundness. This ball should be keep clean at all times.

We measure the distance that the ball travels in inches. We typically measure the speed 4 times in one direction lengthwise and then 4 more times in the opposite lengthwise direction. We average these readings together to get the speed of the cloth.
 
OK. So there are some people using a ramp to test speed. But it seems they are either home made or custom made. Why don't we agree to a standard. THat way we can have results that are comparable.

I would be willing to help. I'm and engineer and can make drawings that I would share freely of the ramp. I can also machine a ramp on a CNC. If someone has a ramp design they suggest we use, I would be willing to draw it up. Or I can come up with my own design, and machine a few samples out of a durable material.
 
Black-Balled...I think you should change your handle to "Smorgie Jr." LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge

Black-Balled said:
I have my own method to test bed speed, not yet figured out the rail rebound test.

I put on a windbreaker and run for 10 ft toward the pool table. I then dive up on it, keeping hands, feet and head off felt, then see how far I slide. Once I stop, I touch my nose to the felt and let a loogie roll out of my mouth.

Depending on distance of...ahh, forget it.
Click to expand...
 
iusedtoberich said:
OK. So there are some people using a ramp to test speed. But it seems they are either home made or custom made. Why don't we agree to a standard. THat way we can have results that are comparable.

I would be willing to help. I'm and engineer and can make drawings that I would share freely of the ramp. I can also machine a ramp on a CNC. If someone has a ramp design they suggest we use, I would be willing to draw it up. Or I can come up with my own design, and machine a few samples out of a durable material.
Click to expand...

Sounds great to me. I have been toying with some things and here are a few ideas.

1. The Stimpmeter seems to be the best way to go.
2. It should be easy to make so that everyone can have one with little to no expense.
3. The plans should specify the cut angle for the lip, the placement of a retaining board that is removed to let the CB roll, and a way to attach one or two support leg(s), possibly using a small hinge.
4. The rig could be placed in many cue cases or strapped to the side of a cue case.
5. In a few trials it would appear that a 14" piece of 1" cove molding with about a 4" support to the rail yields about lag speed + one diamond on my Gold Crown III competition speed table.

I think that an engineer, such as yourself, needs to formalize the plans which will be a better design and more readily accepted than the simple idea phrased here.

Apparently, The mechanism is quite reliable as described. I found the ball to be returning to within about 1" or less on each of several trials.

One of the things that occurred to me is that a home made version is sufficient for individual use. This allows me to determine if there are changes in my home (or usual) table. It also allows me to check the speed of any table I am about to play on, using diamonds and my home table as reference points.

A more formal, commercial version, could be sold for tournaments, table installers and others. Might even sell to room owners if the cost is low enough. A poolplayer's stimpmeter would address many complaints.

I have had people say my table is too fast or too slow. That the rail on some particular table is "dead" etc. The meter could be used in any ways.
 
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In your experiments, did you notice any significant cue ball bounce when it exits the ramp and lands on the table? I was thinking it might be nice if the surface of the ramp were concave so that its bottom would be almost horizontal and lead to a more graceful exit of the cueball. However, if bounce is not a problem with a straight ramp, then it would obviously be simpler to make if its straight.

I was also thinking that the ramp should be such that the cue ball would only travel about 3 feet. This way you could test both directions on a table without hitting the cushion. The reason for this is because if the ball hits the cushion, a new variable is introduced, and we would be testing more than just the bed cloth speed.

I also believe firmly that we need an apparatus to measure the cushions of the table. But I'm not sure its a good idea to incorporate the bed speed and the cushion rebound in the same test.

I have a design in my head and a few sketches of a way to test the cushion using a cueball mounted to the end of a pendulum. The pendulum would be raised to a fixed hight and then released. It would bounce into the cushion and then rebound to a new maximum height. The height before the release can be compared to the height after the release to obtain a numerical value (coefficient of restitution) that can be used to compare different cushions, different installation techniques, different amounts of rail bolt torque, different brands of cushion, etc. This is something I'd like to build and ship to different AZ members, especially the mechanics who could test the installation variables that the rest of us can't. This would be more complicated to build, so it is something I think I would just make one of, and we could share it and ship it to each other on AZ.
 
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