Taiwan TOI

[peteypooldude]

Here's the thing...... Even though I know what does what and why , without CJ convincing me to play a couple weeks with nothing but TOI I would have never learned some of the cinch shots and what can actually be done playing this way. Unless you commit to it for a couple weeks there's just shots you'd never think of hitting with a TOI, so just because you know doesn't necessarily mean that you know. It's truly been a learning experience even though I already had an understanding of deflection, I didn't know how to use it to my advantage .

 

[duckie]

cte sucks !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CJ Wiley]

You understand why because you put forth the effort with an open mind

Here's the thing...... Even though I know what does what and why , without CJ convincing me to play a couple weeks with nothing but TOI I would have never learned some of the cinch shots and what can actually be done playing this way. Unless you commit to it for a couple weeks there's just shots you'd never think of hitting with a TOI, so just because you know doesn't necessarily mean that you know. It's truly been a learning experience even though I already had an understanding of deflection, I didn't know how to use it to my advantage .

You are on the right path.

The attempt to "figure out" these advanced techniques without putting in the time and commitment on the table is not possible.

You understand why because you went through the training with an open mind.

Keep up the good work, peteypooldude, let me know if I can be of assistance.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the cue ball is the only physical target (that's directly influenced)

I can cheat the pocket all day long and never use TOI, even with center ball.

Just because you lack the confidence to use center ball does not translate to no one else can.

Oh here's a little drawing on margin of error, only I call it impact zone.

I'll call this obvious bluff, you, sir, have no idea what you're talking about.

No, you can't possibly cheat the pocket as well with center ball as I can with TOI. My target is only inches away, yours is several feet away, it's impossible for you to win.

If you try to cheat the pocket on a long straight in by changing your aim you will fail, especially under pressure. It's done at the cue ball, because the cue ball is the only physical target (that's directly influenced) in the entire game of pocket billiards.

 

[TheLoneSilencer]

More bad info.

Just because you lack the confidence to use center ball does not translate to no one else can.

Oh here's a little drawing on margin of error, only I call it impact zone.

Obviously you disagree with his beliefs which is your right. However I will say it is comical how some of you will go on about how he is wrong about this & that yet I am 100% sure none of you have ever come close to playing his speed. :thumbup:

 

[Koop]

Obviously you disagree with his beliefs which is your right. However I will say it is comical how some of you will go on about how he is wrong about this & that yet I am 100% sure none of you have ever come close to playing his speed. :thumbup:

Was thinking the same exact thing. I may or may not agree with everything CJ has to say but I am sure as hell not going to say it's wrong when he's proven it works after years of playing and gambling.

 

[duckie]

Was thinking the same exact thing. I may or may not agree with everything CJ has to say but I am sure as hell not going to say it's wrong when he's proven it works after years of playing and gambling.

It works for him therefore it is not wrong for him.

Thing is, not everyones name is CJ.

Read a little what Babe Cranfield writes about shooting. A Hall of Famer, high run of over 700 in 14.1, although unofficial.

Guess what.....never is mentioned TOI. Hmmmm......wonder why?

Oh when someone goes on and on and on about how there style of play is the tits, and implies there is no other way they deserve the shit they get.

Oh.....never underestimate your opponent.

 

[Koop]

It works for him therefore it is not wrong for him.

Thing is, not everyones name is CJ.

Read a little what Babe Cranfield writes about shooting. A Hall of Famer, high run of over 700 in 14.1, although unofficial.

Guess what.....never is mentioned TOI. Hmmmm......wonder why?

Oh when someone goes on and on and on about how there style of play is the tits, and implies there is no other way they deserve the shit they get.

Oh.....never underestimate your opponent.

I think you'd be surprised how many top players use some inside to straighten out their shots. Just because Babe Cranfield never mentioned TOI doesn't mean it wasn't used.
C'mon man, you're smarter than that, aren't you?
Using the argument that because he never mentioned it means it's no good?

Anywho, really not my argument so you continue to rail against it for all I care. Same way Hal Houle always told me, you can offer to give it away for free and people won't accept it so why bother.
I miss my friend Hal and couldn't agree with him more.

 

[ENGLISH!]

As is often times the case, different people seem to be talking about different things or different aspects of similar or the same thing & at times taking statements or parts of statements a bit out of context.

Quoting only a part of a post at times can be very misleading to a reader that does not have a good understanding of the subject(s) being 'discussed'.

There is more to using TOI than getting an increase in focus.

There is more than one area for margin for error in this two pronged game. If the pocket was 2 5/16 inches wide there would be virtually no margin for any error.

It, the margin for error, ends at the pocket but starts at the tip on the ball with a connection of the two balls in between.

Sometimes I wonder if there really can be so much unintended miscommunication or misinterpretation.

Anyway, maybe one day we can all be in more agreement as to specifics & how to discuss them.

Best 2 All,
Rick

 

[CJ Wiley]

It's like getting a black-belt, there are several sections you must go through

It works for him therefore it is not wrong for him.

Thing is, not everyones name is CJ.

Read a little what Babe Cranfield writes about shooting. A Hall of Famer, high run of over 700 in 14.1, although unofficial.

Guess what.....never is mentioned TOI. Hmmmm......wonder why?

Oh when someone goes on and on and on about how there style of play is the tits, and implies there is no other way they deserve the shit they get.

Oh.....never underestimate your opponent.

I have always clarified that TOI is only for a percentage of players.

There are thousands of players benefiting from the TOI training, although none of them will do it the same, it's not that type of system, all players perform differently.

I'm one of the few players that use it exclusively, however, to learn it you must use it exclusively for at least 3 hours - to reach a higher level in your game I'd recommend three weeks of training.

It's like getting a black-belt, there are several sections you must go through to reach a level that demoralizes your opponents.

TOI was described as "floating the cue ball," "having the cue ball on a string," "stunning the cue ball" etc. I coined the phrase "TOI" and formatted 'The Touch of Inside' so it could be taught. I didn't invent the TOI (my sources say Luther Lassiter was the first one to utilize it).

Here's a few players that sent me feedback:

I recently saw CJ's TOI video. I really think it was a phenomenal instructional DVD -- very well produced and loaded with information.

I love it when people produce new content and put out stuff that is different and fresh.

Great job, CJ......Dave

just got video and watched it,went straight to my table and started using toi,and i can see cj that this toi is the real deal,i have allways had trouble adjusting to fast equipment at different pool rooms,but with toi i can slow the cue ball travel way down and stay in line,for most of my pool playing life i have always played with a touch of outside, which makes my cue ball travel more,and makes it difficult to stay in line,i can see with toi i can make the table do what i want it to do,i can see why you were a great money player,with toi you could adjust to different tables quicker than your opponent ...i really liked ultra thin cuts with toi and how to kill the cue ball,just wanted to say thanks for the video,i know im gonna make some more cash using toi.

Received my DVD a few days ago.

Thank you CJ.

Watched the first few chapters and stopped. I'll get to the reason why in a few.

I've mentioned that I had been tinkering with the gist of TOI for a few weeks.

I've certainly had some off days as well as some that are decent. Still not a world beater. For example, last weekend on my practice day, If I was able to make a ball, I'd over run position then get too tentative and the next few only to come up way short so it was a mixture of mess. LOL.

Since I only watched the first few chapters before I stopped, I'm the type that makes notes, both mental and written. Then I proceed to just work on that until I have the full understanding of it before I move on.

I'm meticulous about detail so I find methods to try and make it simple without overwhelming or convolutions.

Today's routine was much better than usual but I'm still not a world beater.

FWIW, I was watching a little of the Swanee stream last night. I watched Ronnie Alcano thump on Warren Kiamco. Race to 7. Alcano closed the set 7-3 over Kiamco.

Anyone care to guess what technique Alcano was using? First 2 guesses don't count.

Again a hearty thanks to CJ for letting us all in on this fabulous little secret!

I've struggled with my position play for a long, long time - then I discovered CJ Wileys Touch of Inside DVD, and I've worked with it for a month. Not only has my ball potting improved greatly, but I still find it hard to believe how much better I control the cue ball and get the shape I need. When I do it correctly, that CB just floats to position. I don't post often here, but this just had to be said. Thank you CJ!
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For all of you amateurs out there (and I'm one of you as well), I used TOI virtually exclusively in a tournament setting this past Wednesday night.

I was LIGHTS OUT (for me, anyway). I didn't win the tournament, but I got several comments of, "Do you EVER miss?". The thing that stopped me was that it was on tables that have THE fastest cloth and cushions I've ever played on. So, occasionally I'd leave myself in a bad spot and ruin a run or pattern. Speed control is a huge adjustment on those tables compared to any others I've ever ran across.

I've going to be very excited to play in a place with nicer equipment.

I just ordered the TOI DVD a few min ago, btw, so I can get the full breakdown on any nuances I haven't been aware of yet. But, I'm tellin' ya.......it works.

Thumbs up, CJ!

 

[haystj]

I apologize but I have to throw my .02 in here.

Not sure what some guy named Cranfield has to do with this thread. He might have used his own unique system of pocketing balls unrelated to this thread.. So I guess I learned that not every top player uses TOI... OK

However, I will tell the folks reading this thread that I watched the TOI video (in addition to some fundamentals I learned from Scott Lee) and after playing with it for a few hours I noticed I was pocketing long and medium shots much, much more easily. My shots were entering the pocket and making a super solid sound as they hit the pocket that I am not used to hearing when I shoot. I was having a bit more difficulty making short shots with severe cuts, but the improvement on long and medium shots was shockingly fast.
I think it is ironic that propnents of using TOI don't bash other techniques, but the fans of other techniques feel the need to do just that.
For me the bottom line is using this system I am improving my game, by improving my game I am having more fun, by having more fun I am playing more, by playing more I am supporting and helping to grow pool. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

 

[Bambu]

I apologize but I have to throw my .02 in here.

Not sure what some guy named Cranfield has to do with this thread. He might have used his own unique system of pocketing balls unrelated to this thread.. So I guess I learned that not every top player uses TOI... OK

However, I will tell the folks reading this thread that I watched the TOI video (in addition to some fundamentals I learned from Scott Lee) and after playing with it for a few hours I noticed I was pocketing long and medium shots much, much more easily. My shots were entering the pocket and making a super solid sound as they hit the pocket that I am not used to hearing when I shoot. I was having a bit more difficulty making short shots with severe cuts, but the improvement on long and medium shots was shockingly fast.
I think it is ironic that propnents of using TOI don't bash other techniques, but the fans of other techniques feel the need to do just that.
For me the bottom line is using this system I am improving my game, by improving my game I am having more fun, by having more fun I am playing more, by playing more I am supporting and helping to grow pool. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

I'm glad its working for you, but I see things a bit differently. I'm being told my way is no good(center ball). I find that disturbing, yet I don't bash anybody. Also still wondering how speed could be used to cheat a pocket without accounting for throw.

I'm also thinking, IF the theory really is sound..... that it really is somehow better to favor one side of the cue ball, how much better is it? Does the difference outweigh the benefit of using a low deflection shaft? I say that because my experience says when it comes to toi, low deflection shafts have limitations.

 

[West Point 1987]

I apologize but I have to throw my .02 in here.

Not sure what some guy named Cranfield has to do with this thread. He might have used his own unique system of pocketing balls unrelated to this thread.. So I guess I learned that not every top player uses TOI... OK

However, I will tell the folks reading this thread that I watched the TOI video (in addition to some fundamentals I learned from Scott Lee) and after playing with it for a few hours I noticed I was pocketing long and medium shots much, much more easily. My shots were entering the pocket and making a super solid sound as they hit the pocket that I am not used to hearing when I shoot. I was having a bit more difficulty making short shots with severe cuts, but the improvement on long and medium shots was shockingly fast.
I think it is ironic that propnents of using TOI don't bash other techniques, but the fans of other techniques feel the need to do just that.
For me the bottom line is using this system I am improving my game, by improving my game I am having more fun, by having more fun I am playing more, by playing more I am supporting and helping to grow pool. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

Best post of the thread.

 

[one stroke]

I apologize but I have to throw my .02 in here.

Not sure what some guy named Cranfield has to do with this thread. He might have used his own unique system of pocketing balls unrelated to this thread.. So I guess I learned that not every top player uses TOI... OK

However, I will tell the folks reading this thread that I watched the TOI video (in addition to some fundamentals I learned from Scott Lee) and after playing with it for a few hours I noticed I was pocketing long and medium shots much, much more easily. My shots were entering the pocket and making a super solid sound as they hit the pocket that I am not used to hearing when I shoot. I was having a bit more difficulty making short shots with severe cuts, but the improvement on long and medium shots was shockingly fast.
I think it is ironic that propnents of using TOI don't bash other techniques, but the fans of other techniques feel the need to do just that.
For me the bottom line is using this system I am improving my game, by improving my game I am having more fun, by having more fun I am playing more, by playing more I am supporting and helping to grow pool. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

I took a lesson from Scott and if you had a problam with eye pattern and you have corrected it ,, you will become a better pocketer of the ball almost over night
CJ will attack center ball players he just dances more with softer shoes

1

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...you can't possibly cheat the pocket as well with center ball as I can with TOI.

In order to mean anything, this would have to read "the pocket can't be cheated as well with center ball as it can with TOI". You're claiming a difference between methods, not between players.

I doubt the claim holds up when tested objectively - it sure doesn't make obvious sense, unless it's a result of simply hitting the CB more precisely, improving accuracy. That could be, and TOI could help focus the player on that, but TOI isn't needed for that.

pj
chgo

 

[Mitchxout]

In order to mean anything, this would have to read "the pocket can't be cheated as well with center ball as it can with TOI". You're claiming a difference between methods, not between players.

I doubt the claim holds up when tested objectively - it sure doesn't make obvious sense, unless it's a result of simply hitting the CB more precisely, improving accuracy. That could be, and TOI could help focus the player on that, but TOI isn't needed for that.

pj
chgo

Common sense is the teacher.

 

[Banks]

In order to mean anything, this would have to read "the pocket can't be cheated as well with center ball as it can with TOI". You're claiming a difference between methods, not between players.

I doubt the claim holds up when tested objectively - it sure doesn't make obvious sense, unless it's a result of simply hitting the CB more precisely, improving accuracy. That could be, and TOI could help focus the player on that, but TOI isn't needed for that.

pj
chgo

Are you saying that using inside doesn't create pocketing spin? Edit: At least, when cutting towards the pocket.

 

[CJ Wiley]

when they want to explore new ways I'm always available to answer their PM's/Emails

I took a lesson from Scott and if you had a problam with eye pattern and you have corrected it ,, you will become a better pocketer of the ball almost over night
CJ will attack center ball players he just dances more with softer shoes

1

I use "center ball" on straight in shots to hit the center of the pocket. When I move my tip slightly to the right, the object ball slightly cuts to the right. When I move my tip to the left, the object ball cuts slightly to the left.

"Center ball" has it's place in pool like "center ball" has it's place in golf. However, once a golfer is more advanced they learn to "move the ball," by drawing (ball moves to the left) and fading (ball moves to the right), so they can favor one side of the fairway or green and create a zone.

This enables them to aim at the left or right side of the fairway (or green) and move the ball towards center. The effect is a larger margin of error relative to aiming at the center and allowing the golf ball to move left or right because of imperfect contact.

Center ball has it's place in pool, especially at the beginning stages, however, as a player progresses they will want to learn how players like myself move the ball off the straight line. This enables a player to align like all balls are straight-in and use just a "touch" of left or right to pocket the ball.

The 'Touch of Inside' (TOI) technique is more advanced, so until a player is ready for this stage it's probably better to continue using "center ball" for all their shots.

I am perfectly okay with playing with center ball, and when a player wants to explore more advanced techniques I'm always available to answer their PM's and/or emails.

 

[CJ Wiley]

thanks for helping and supporting the Game.......it certainly appreciates you

I apologize but I have to throw my .02 in here.

Not sure what some guy named Cranfield has to do with this thread. He might have used his own unique system of pocketing balls unrelated to this thread.. So I guess I learned that not every top player uses TOI... OK

However, I will tell the folks reading this thread that I watched the TOI video (in addition to some fundamentals I learned from Scott Lee) and after playing with it for a few hours I noticed I was pocketing long and medium shots much, much more easily. My shots were entering the pocket and making a super solid sound as they hit the pocket that I am not used to hearing when I shoot. I was having a bit more difficulty making short shots with severe cuts, but the improvement on long and medium shots was shockingly fast.
I think it is ironic that propnents of using TOI don't bash other techniques, but the fans of other techniques feel the need to do just that.
For me the bottom line is using this system I am improving my game, by improving my game I am having more fun, by having more fun I am playing more, by playing more I am supporting and helping to grow pool. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

That's the name of the game, to have fun, play more and enjoy the experience.

You are right, ideally this is what the forum is all about, at least it is for us.

Play Well, let me know if you have any questions or comments, and thanks for helping and supporting the Game.......it certainly appreciates each and every one that contributes. Together we can do it, one day and game at a time. :thumbup:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Are you saying that using inside doesn't create pocketing spin? Edit: At least, when cutting towards the pocket.

"Pocketing spin" is another mythical method. You lose more in aiming accuracy/consistency when you introduce squirt /swerve than you (theoretically) gain in "pocket acceptance".

pj
chgo