Taking The Skill Out Of Pool

[Tony_in_MD]

Buddy plays some good pool on a 9 ft too.

Don't think I would have a chance against him on a barbox or nine, but I would love to try, just to say I played him. He is my favorite player.

Try matching up even with David Matlock or Buddy Hall on one of those tables and then try to make the same statement...

 

[Tony_in_MD]

KC you hit the nail on the head.

As long as you don't hook yourself playing on a barbox you can make almost any shot.

((again my opinion Mr. Greenman))

I think Tony_in_Md was probably referring to the generous size of barbox pockets that are, of course, designed to keep the games fast and coins dropping.

As I'm sure Johnny will agree, the skill required to achieve consistent success on barboxes, revolves around speed control and position play. Basically, it's about making it to your next shot without getting hooked. And this definitely requires some skill on the comparitively more-congested seven foot battlefield.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[8pack]

IMHO skill in pool left when barboxes came to be.

I think every table has something to offer.While bar boxes are easier to pocket on, the smallness of the table creates more clusters.
You have to able to handle whitey better on a bb than a big table.
Learning inside english on a bb is a must.:wink:

 

[trob]

I know more then one player that play great on 9 foot tables and terrible on bar box. There just not used to having to put whitey in small areas.

 

[eezbank]

Johnny - why cry about aiming systems when you were loving JoeT's? It should be loved, it's a GREAT system, imo. Aiming systems don't take the skill out of pool - it just makes that facet of the game easier to learn and easier to repeat. In my opinion, aiming systems are the same as a pre-shot routine (or at least a substantial part of it). It's just a "pre-defined" PSR, that's all.

As far as jump cues--- yeah. You should have to jump with what you play with, imo.

I agree. Anything that helps to level out the peaks and valleys of a players game is a positive thing. JoeT said he has some stuff in the works. I can't wait to see it when it comes out.

 

[phread59]

01RK gotta disagree here. A Small block turnin 8000 runnin alcohol with big compression is the knuts. 24 410 sprint cars commin outa 4 on the first lap is hard to beat.

I own about 10 cues. No jumper in sight. 2 break cues and another to be purchased in the near future. I don't jump and will kick it or die trying (or give up ball in hand).

Mark Shuman

 

[abbassi]

I can remember when if you were a good backyard mechanic you could pick up a light body car and put an old hemi in it and a few other things to make it competitive at the drag strip. I can remember going out and getting old 32 to 1940 coupe, make it track safe, throw a V8 with triple carburetor’s on it in your garage and go to one of the 1/5 to ½ mile stock car tracks around the country like Freeport on Long Island, NY. Those days are long gone when for a few bucks and your own labor you could enjoy your hobby of racing around an oval or down a quarter mile strip. You were the mechanic, body man, and driver.
Now a car comes down the ramps of a tracker-trailer with a crew of mechanics, machinists, and a pit crew. Inside the trailer are an extra car, a machine shop, extra motors, computers, and just about any part for the car.

I also remember pool when you had one cue (maybe), the break cue came off the wall and there were no jump cues. On one hand most want smaller pockets and deeper shelves to make the game harder. Some of those same people want a system that you don’t even have to look at the pocket and the ball goes magically in. I fear in the future the player will be bringing a little hand-held gadget to program each shot, all the patterns, and what the odds are of making all the shots. Will the use of stroke blocks and lasers be legal next? Hell, maybe just have a radio controlled CB and play the game sitting in the chair like a video game. Just press speed, draw, and the angle and WOW what a shot. To me shot making is one of the easiest parts of the game. IMO stroke and position are just as or more important. I really think were taking away from the game of how that it was intended to be played. Johnnyt

I like the no-jump cue rule. Aiming systems is really another issue and does not affect the game. A pro is a pro, A "B" player armed with a system, is a "B" player with a system.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Yep, some cannot make the transition while other can. Depends on the person.

That does not disprove my opinion.

I know more then one player that play great on 9 foot tables and terrible on bar box. There just not used to having to put whitey in small areas.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Yes, full rack games are harder on a BB then a 9 foot table. Games like 9 ball though, are too easy on a BB.

I think every table has something to offer.While bar boxes are easier to pocket on, the smallness of the table creates more clusters.
You have to able to handle whitey better on a bb than a big table.
Learning inside english on a bb is a must.:wink:

 

[Gerry]

01RK gotta disagree here. A Small block turnin 8000 runnin alcohol with big compression is the knuts. 24 410 sprint cars commin outa 4 on the first lap is hard to beat.

I own about 10 cues. No jumper in sight. 2 break cues and another to be purchased in the near future. I don't jump and will kick it or die trying (or give up ball in hand).

Mark Shuman

yup, and its even better with your butt strapped in the seat! I have raced 600hp 10sec drag cars, midgets, flat track bikes, drag bikes, shifter carts (best bang for the buck IMO) and none of them can compare to a sprinter pulling the wheels up down the front straight. We live about 2 miles from Grand View speedway....I can hear the cars every Sat nite!

As far as the game getting too easy? I dont think its equipment as much as information. With the net and video, its WAY much easier to get up to speed quickly. Back in the day you had to put in the time on the table or read magazines.

+1 on getting rid of jump cues.....silly crutch.

G.

 

[JB Cases]

I can remember when if you were a good backyard mechanic you could pick up a light body car and put an old hemi in it and a few other things to make it competitive at the drag strip. I can remember going out and getting old 32 to 1940 coupe, make it track safe, throw a V8 with triple carburetor’s on it in your garage and go to one of the 1/5 to ½ mile stock car tracks around the country like Freeport on Long Island, NY. Those days are long gone when for a few bucks and your own labor you could enjoy your hobby of racing around an oval or down a quarter mile strip. You were the mechanic, body man, and driver.
Now a car comes down the ramps of a tracker-trailer with a crew of mechanics, machinists, and a pit crew. Inside the trailer are an extra car, a machine shop, extra motors, computers, and just about any part for the car.

I also remember pool when you had one cue (maybe), the break cue came off the wall and there were no jump cues. On one hand most want smaller pockets and deeper shelves to make the game harder. Some of those same people want a system that you don’t even have to look at the pocket and the ball goes magically in. I fear in the future the player will be bringing a little hand-held gadget to program each shot, all the patterns, and what the odds are of making all the shots. Will the use of stroke blocks and lasers be legal next? Hell, maybe just have a radio controlled CB and play the game sitting in the chair like a video game. Just press speed, draw, and the angle and WOW what a shot. To me shot making is one of the easiest parts of the game. IMO stroke and position are just as or more important. I really think were taking away from the game of how that it was intended to be played. Johnnyt

Every time one of these nostalgia threads comes up I just go to my folder full of billiard patents from the past 100 years and I know that no gadgets or aiming systems have changed the game.

What would you say if "CTE" were taught 90 years ago? Except it wasn't called CTE then?

No one is magically making balls. No matter what your approach is when you get down on the ball you have to pull the trigger. That's the skill. Do you have what it takes to judge the shot correctly and then also execute it?

But beyond that when is knowledge ever a bad thing? Let's assume for a moment that learning CTE immediately would really make a person 3 balls better. Well then a rising tide lifts all boats. If the whole country got 3 balls better then not only would the skill not be taken out of pool but all pool players would have more skill.

Jump cues are just a natural response to the rules. They were invented and promoted by professional players.

Do you think it takes the skill out of the game if a player knows a banking system? Or a kicking system?

The reason I ask is because every time someone waxes nostalgic I want to point out that billiard instruction has contained systematic approaches for more than a hundred years. Ever wonder why there are diamonds on the rails? Wouldn't the game be just a touch harder if people couldn't use the diamonds as references?

So how far back should we go to make the game be "as it was meant to be"?

Should we return to using straw for the rails and maces? No chalk? No leather tips?

At what point in history do we freeze pool at and say that this is how it was meant to be?

If anyone thinks that the skill is not in pool then I will happily let them play the 12 ball ghost and see how they do.

 

[JB Cases]

I say we should go back to 1858 to Michael Phelan's time.

The Game of Billiards - Micheal Phelan

ON page 52 he diagrams the jump shot address on the cue ball. He extols all the advances in equipment. And he says that a month's instruction is worth more than years of ignorant practice.

Try browsing through Google books if you ever want to see how billiards really was. Also Goole patents has some very interesting patents relating to billiards.

 

[book collector]

Skill out of pool

Do any of you remember the aluminum cues they had I think it was late
70s that were spring loaded and had markings on the tube for how far to pull back the spring to control the speed of the cueball?
Of course they did not work , perhaps I can make one that uses compressed air ???????

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

If you read Willie Mosconi's Autobiography, "WILLIE's GAME" Pool was big time in 1913, since then it has been on a Down Hill Slide, The Hustler, and Color of Money put some new life in the GAME.

But the "life' was like a IV Drug in you system, as sooner or later that does shopped working.

Willie documented the Pool time line well in this book available from AMAZON under a BUCK.

 

[book collector]

Skill

If you read Willie Mosconi's Autobiography, "WILLIE's GAME" Pool was big time in 1913, since then it has been on a Down Hill Slide, The Hustler, and Color of Money put some new life in the GAME.

But the "life' was like a IV Drug in you system, as sooner or later that does shopped working.

Willie documented the Pool time line well in this book available from AMAZON under a BUCK.

Where are the under a dollar Willies Game books please, I'll take several hundred
Wow I looked and they did have one , thanks Coco.

 

[JB Cases]

Do any of you remember the aluminum cues they had I think it was late
70s that were spring loaded and had markings on the tube for how far to pull back the spring to control the speed of the cueball?
Of course they did not work , perhaps I can make one that uses compressed air ???????

Already done. Google pneu-power cues. Dr. Cue Tom Rossman has one of those spring loaded cues and has fun with it in his exhibitions.