Taking weight vs. giving weight -- Which is more likely to result in a win for you?

BillPorter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think I have seen a thread on this topic before, but I couldn't dig it up. For me, this is a significant issue because my winning percentage GIVING WEIGHT is much higher than my winning percentage with I am GETTING WEIGHT. I have a few thoughts on the reasons for this and by tomorrow morning I'll post my actual percentages in this thread.

My first thought on this topic focuses on which player is likely to be better at matching up. Since the better player is the player giving the weight (except for those rare occasions when someone has laid down a great lemon and is getting weight from someone they can beat heads up), he (or she) seems likely to be more knowledgeable than the player getting the weight. Of course there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet that, on average, players giving weight know more about the game and matching up than players getting weight. Obviously, the player better at making the match will win more often.

Here's another slant. How well can a player gauge the speed of another player? I'm thinking that it is easier to gauge the speed of a lesser player than a player who plays better than you. If you are a B player and play 20 games of one pocket against a strong shortstop, you'll probably lose every game. Then you play 20 games against Efren and again lose every game. About all you know at this point is that you have no chance to beat either of your two recent opponents; you likely don't have a clear idea about which of the two is the better player. So, on the assumption that it's easier to judge the speed of lesser players than better players, the player giving weight probably has a better idea of the poorer player's speed than vice versa. And so the better player is likely to offer weight that will still allow him to win while the weaker player may think he's getting the best of it.

Another approach is to consider what type of games brings out your BEST game. With me, when I give weight to a weaker player, I approach the game and every shot in the game with considerable confidence, especially playing one pocket. I know I can almost surely make a mistake or two and still have a chance to win the game. Against a strong player, who is giving me weight, I feel much more pressure and am much less confident as I drop down on a shot. I know, against a strong player, that I may not survive even a single mistake.

Finally, consider how hard it is to get in rhythm when you are the weaker player. You shoot less often and many times are shooting in response to a safety played by a strong player. You may be spending so little time at the table that you never really get into stroke during the session.

So I solicit your opinions on this topic. It occurs to me just now that I could have done this as a poll and asked under which situation is your winning percentage higher, giving weight or getting it.
 
I don't have too much experience with this - but I can say the few times I've been on either side of the scale, I generally do better giving weight than getting it. For me personally, when I'm getting weight (specifically in one-pocket), there's a lot of pressure to make the ball - make the other guy pay for leaving me the shot; knowing that if I miss this shot, or position, he will be out.

On the other hand, what you said about giving weight - and knowing that you'll probably have a few chances to get out (again, 1p) I'm more relaxed, more confident and don't feel the pressure as much.
 
Bill, I'm a little older now and I've lost all desire to go to a poolroom to play because of all the crazy loud music and the tourneys that are all handicapped. But, I've always said that I'd rather have my ass handed to me in a tourney with no handicap than either give or get weight.

I believe I'd play better giving weight than getting it because I wouldn't feel I've won anything or bested anyone if I were getting spotted.

Likewise in a gambling situation, I don't want to listen to anyone crying if I were to win while being spotted, so I'd much rather try it even and surrender if needed.
 
For me, it depends.

I am comfortable either way (giving/receiving weight) when I feel that the game is fair. If I know I have a decent chance of winning, then however I'm matched up with whoever it is, I feel comfortable. I will say this, if I am spotting someone I don't know or haven't played before (which is a rare occurance), then it can get to me sometimes admittedly. This is only because of that subconcious feeling that I am getting robbed. :p

I used to hate giving weight because I seemed to play a ball less than my true speed. I guess I used to fear the weight, but I have managed to oversome that mostly.
 
In my experience, weight given usually results in a fairly even match. Isn't that the whole point, after all?
 
you covered it very well

Bill,

You covered it well. As more than one old road player said, "I'll give you what you want but I won't give you what you need!" The spot usually isn't large enough and I think one large issue is the mental aspect. When you have to take a spot you are admitting the other player is a better player before you hit a ball. That is a tall hill to climb all by itself. I'd rather play even and know there is zero room for mistakes than take a spot and admit I am outclassed from the jump.

Hu




I think I have seen a thread on this topic before, but I couldn't dig it up. For me, this is a significant issue because my winning percentage GIVING WEIGHT is much higher than my winning percentage with I am GETTING WEIGHT. I have a few thoughts on the reasons for this and by tomorrow morning I'll post my actual percentages in this thread.

My first thought on this topic focuses on which player is likely to be better at matching up. Since the better player is the player giving the weight (except for those rare occasions when someone has laid down a great lemon and is getting weight from someone they can beat heads up), he (or she) seems likely to be more knowledgeable than the player getting the weight. Of course there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet that, on average, players giving weight know more about the game and matching up than players getting weight. Obviously, the player better at making the match will win more often.

Here's another slant. How well can a player gauge the speed of another player? I'm thinking that it is easier to gauge the speed of a lesser player than a player who plays better than you. If you are a B player and play 20 games of one pocket against a strong shortstop, you'll probably lose every game. Then you play 20 games against Efren and again lose every game. About all you know at this point is that you have no chance to beat either of your two recent opponents; you likely don't have a clear idea about which of the two is the better player. So, on the assumption that it's easier to judge the speed of lesser players than better players, the player giving weight probably has a better idea of the poorer player's speed than vice versa. And so the better player is likely to offer weight that will still allow him to win while the weaker player may think he's getting the best of it.

Another approach is to consider what type of games brings out your BEST game. With me, when I give weight to a weaker player, I approach the game and every shot in the game with considerable confidence, especially playing one pocket. I know I can almost surely make a mistake or two and still have a chance to win the game. Against a strong player, who is giving me weight, I feel much more pressure and am much less confident as I drop down on a shot. I know, against a strong player, that I may not survive even a single mistake.

Finally, consider how hard it is to get in rhythm when you are the weaker player. You shoot less often and many times are shooting in response to a safety played by a strong player. You may be spending so little time at the table that you never really get into stroke during the session.

So I solicit your opinions on this topic. It occurs to me just now that I could have done this as a poll and asked under which situation is your winning percentage higher, giving weight or getting it.
 
I've never recieved weight (won't accept it). But I've given it before, I think I'm just about 50% if I was to calculate it all.

Honestly though, I think the handicap should slightly favor the better player. It makes the weaker player better in the long run.
 
In my experience, weight given usually results in a fairly even match. Isn't that the whole point, after all?
Mike, I'm going to have to sound a little cynical here, but in my experience, when matching up for a gambling session, it seems to me that for each player, the whole point is to match up in a way that gives you a better than even chance to win. Now if you're talking about friends who are not gambling on the session, then I would agree that the point is to make it a fair game with approximately even chances for both players.:smile:
 
I've never recieved weight (won't accept it). But I've given it before, I think I'm just about 50% if I was to calculate it all.

Tomorrow morning I am going to look back over the past year or so and calculate my winning percentage for sessions where I played even, took weight, or gave weight. But even before I sharpen my pencil and start counting, I can tell you that my winning percentage when giving weight is significantly higher than when getting weight.
 
Rather give up the nuts. Makes them think they're stealing. Calculate out the best game, and outrun it. If I'm a gettin' the nuts, then I'm REALLY gettin' the nuts. Cliff wiht the six and the pop, etc. Come on back and give that another whirl on the barbox. I might unload again.
 
And the percentages are.....

I went ahead and did the calculations for my gambling session over the past year and a half, the time during which I have kept records of my sessions. You should know that these sessions were usually for small stakes. In sessions where I GOT weight, I won 52% of the sessions. In sessions where I GAVE weight, I won an almost embarrassing 93% of the sessions. I only lost two sessions over this time period when giving weight to my opponent.

If you keep a little record of your sessions, you can look back over a year or two and see whether your experiences differ from mine. When it comes to gambling, I've found that the capacity for self-delusion is great, so keeping records helps keep you from kidding yourself.
 
I went ahead and did the calculations for my gambling session over the past year and a half, the time during which I have kept records of my sessions. You should know that these sessions were usually for small stakes. In sessions where I GOT weight, I won 52% of the sessions. In sessions where I GAVE weight, I won an almost embarrassing 93% of the sessions. I only lost two sessions over this time period when giving weight to my opponent.

If you keep a little record of your sessions, you can look back over a year or two and see whether your experiences differ from mine. When it comes to gambling, I've found that the capacity for self-delusion is great, so keeping records helps keep you from kidding yourself.

these percentages don't surprise me at all. Winning 52% of the time getting weight means it cost you, no way to come out ahead and probably not evne either.
i have always the one giving will win about 90% of the time. it only makes good sense to me.
 
If we're talking about gambling and not hustling, then here's my thoughts. :p

I think the player giving weight will have a better outcome than the player receiving the weight.

The player giving up weight, more than likely, has more shots in his/her arsenal than the player receiving the weight.

In some instances, the player giving up the weight may have to put up with a whole lot of B.S. from the player receiving the weight, e.g., nasty comments, gaffes, unfair rulings, cheating, and money issues. :o

In pool, once you acquire the mechanical skills, the rest is all upstairs. Pool can provide an accurate representation in the study of behavioral science. ;)

In the end, I believe the player with the better mental toughness will come out on top. In pool, this is usually the player with the better tableside demeanor and skills set. The combination of these two traits produces a winner. :smile:
 
I can tolerate getting/giving weight gambling, but I hate handicapping for nothing! or in a tournament.
 
I find when I'm a few pounds lighter(usually in the summer when I eat less) I can bend over the table easier without any aches, and I play better.
 
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