TAR 34 SVB/Efren 8 Ball: Open After Break or Make It Take It?

Open After Break or Make It take It ?

  • Open After Break

    Votes: 141 57.8%

  • Make It Take It

    Votes: 103 42.2%
  • Total voters
    244
Open Break

Sets….best 3 out of 5….Race to 2 or3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7, TD’s choice…
Lag for who breaks first set....then alternate breaker/racker
Alternate breaker for each set
Alternate racker for each set
If both players are tied at two sets apiece, tiebreaker (like tennis) in effect. Then lag for break and alternate break with first breaker breaking one rack, then opponent breaks two, and two to other opponent till the end.
Final Match race to 9….must win by 2 games or first to 11. Or some other length
24 second shot clock, one 24 second extension allowed per rack


With a racker and a breaker doing their thing at the same time gettin' ready for ''each next game'', allot of time is NOT wasted in the ''non playing'' time periods during a match. Its always nice seeing the breaker prepare for his ''serve'' so to speak, while his opponent is Racking, its natural.
 
I voted "open after the break" because it's just so hard to know where whitey is gonna end up with all those balls flying around. Very common to break well and not have a shot, and in 8-ball you have no recourse except to fly at some circus shot. Now if there was a pushout option, I might be able to get behind "take what you make" rules. At least if you were in lockup you could tie something up and make the rack more interesting.

As far as Efren being a huge dog on the break, I wouldn't be so quick to say that. He cut his teeth playing a game that uses a full rack, and I'd be surprised if he didn't find a way to make a ball consistently. Beyond that, the list of people who run out better than a nearly 60 year old Efren isn't very long. Unfortunately for Efren, Shane may be on that list.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
I voted "open after the break" because it's just so hard to know where whitey is gonna end up with all those balls flying around. Very common to break well and not have a shot, and in 8-ball you have no recourse except to fly at some circus shot. Now if there was a pushout option, I might be able to get behind "take what you make" rules. At least if you were in lockup you could tie something up and make the rack more interesting.

As far as Efren being a huge dog on the break, I wouldn't be so quick to say that. He cut his teeth playing a game that uses a full rack, and I'd be surprised if he didn't find a way to make a ball consistently. Beyond that, the list of people who run out better than a nearly 60 year old Efren isn't very long. Unfortunately for Efren, Shane may be on that list.

Aaron
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Also, if Efren does the semi soft legal break shot, I like his chances even better when board play becomes the determining factor for each game won.
 
Island Drive said:
Also, if Efren does the semi soft legal break shot, I like his chances even better when board play becomes the determining factor for each game won.
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Unfortunately with it being open after the break if efren soft breaks he has absolutely ZERO chance to win a race to 27.. With these rules you cant be trying to win one game at a time when your opponent is capable of an 8 pack at any time. Efren has too much pride and that is why he chose open after the break.. Just like in every sport father time is undefeated...
 
AtLarge said:
Not necessarily. Let's look at some numbers.

The Diamond 10-Ball Players Championship at the SBE a couple weeks ago was alternate breaks. The Inside Pool brackets do not show the scores of the sets for the first round of play (round of 64 players), but they do thereafter.

Seventy-two races to 8 were played in the final 5 rounds of the event (32 players on down to the finals -- 2 out of 3 races to 8, single elimination). The average score of those sets was 8-4.4. The distribution of the scores was as follows:

8-0....1
8-1....7
8-2....9
8-3....6
8-4...17
8-5....4
8-6...13
8-7...15​

So in 40 (56%) of the 72 sets, the loser won half or fewer games than did the winner.

So this is some (meager) evidence that an alternate break format need not produce mostly close matches.
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Just wanted to point out the fact that the 8 ball break is much easier than the 10 ball break as far as making balls on the break and having an open shot. I believe sets would be closer if playing 9 ball for example. If results show lots of lopsided matches in alternate break in 9 ball then I think that would do a better job of proving your point.
 
I didn't read much of the thread, I voted open after the break. The breaker gets punished unfairly sometimes, And the non-breaker gets rewarded if the breaker doesn't make a ball - why should he get choice for the other guy missing - when the other guy gets no choice when he doesn't miss?

Fatz
 
thebighurt said:
Unfortunately with it being open after the break if efren soft breaks he has absolutely ZERO chance to win a race to 27.. With these rules you cant be trying to win one game at a time when your opponent is capable of an 8 pack at any time. Efren has too much pride and that is why he chose open after the break.. Just like in every sport father time is undefeated...
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You may be right, But when you have a stack a balls together with only 4 or 5 others out in the open, they are Never easy to take apart.
 
Keep it simple. You take what you make. If you make both groups, then the table is open. I think a open table always is too easy for the pros.

The flip side is that we may not see many racks strung together like Bustamante did last time. But you could at least try it in this match and see where it goes.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
Just wanted to point out the fact that the 8 ball break is much easier than the 10 ball break as far as making balls on the break and having an open shot. I believe sets would be closer if playing 9 ball for example. If results show lots of lopsided matches in alternate break in 9 ball then I think that would do a better job of proving your point.
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I think you have a good point.

In TAR 33, the successful-break (stay at table) percentage was actually higher for 10-ball than 8-ball (82% vs. 72% for both players combined). But the B&R percentage was much higher for 8-ball (67% vs 37%). So the percentage of runouts after a successful break was much higher for 8-ball (an astounding 24 out of 26 for 92%) than for 10-ball (18 out of 40 for 45%).

I'll make a note to myself to look at lopsided vs. close matches for alternate-break 9-ball at some point in the future.

Thanks.
 
AtLarge said:
I think you have a good point.

In TAR 33, the successful-break (stay at table) percentage was actually higher for 10-ball than 8-ball (82% vs. 72% for both players combined). But the B&R percentage was much higher for 8-ball (67% vs 37%). So the percentage of runouts after a successful break was much higher for 8-ball (an astounding 24 out of 26 for 92%) than for 10-ball (18 out of 40 for 45%).

I'll make a note to myself to look at lopsided vs. close matches for alternate-break 9-ball at some point in the future.

Thanks.
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No problem. I am surprised to see the successful break percentage in 10 ball is higher than it is in 8 ball. Most pros are going to break and run lots of racks in 8 ball since they have more balls to shoot at after the break and actually develop patterns easily. The table tells you what you have to shoot at after the break in 10 ball thus less break and runs.
 
I think Make it Take it sucks when it’s amateurs like me playing. You CAN get penalized for making a ball, just as you can get penalized when your opponent scratches and the rules are that fouls are shot from the kitchen.

But at the level these guys play, I think if they make a ball on the snap and don’t have a clear shot on the next one, they should be able to find a way to safe the other guy, and it would make the game more interesting.
 
I agree. The (8) ball didn't do much for me. And honestly, for me, streamed 9 / 10 ball gets a little boring as well. But that's just me.

Banks would be better since you never know what's going to happen.
More anticipation and suprise factor.

I'd like to see TAR change it up and do something like full rack banks, 15 ball rotation and one pocket.



spanky79 said:
Just change the 8 ball to BANKS and problem solved.

Watching top players bank is amazing.
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Hungarian said:
I agree. The (8) ball didn't do much for me. And honestly, for me, streamed 9 / 10 ball gets a little boring as well. But that's just me.

Banks would be better since you never know what's going to happen.
More anticipation and suprise factor.

I'd like to see TAR change it up and do something like full rack banks, 15 ball rotation and one pocket.
Click to expand...

Unless you had two very good bank players, I think full rack would be extremely boring.

I'd be all for short rack, since almost all top pros are capable of running a rack or two.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Unless you had two very good bank players, I think full rack would be extremely boring.

I'd be all for short rack, since almost all top pros are capable of running a rack or two.
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I was at the last big full rack bank tournament. 2007 Qlympics. It is terrible to watch. 9 Ball banks I dig but full rack is like one pocket played by sloths on muscle relaxers. All the bank lanes and pockets get clogged up so its just guys bunting balls around.
 
JCIN said:
I was at the last big full rack bank tournament. 2007 Qlympics. It is terrible to watch. 9 Ball banks I dig but full rack is like one pocket played by sloths on muscle relaxers. All the bank lanes and pockets get clogged up so its just guys bunting balls around.
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Full Rack Banks is like skating in a bath tub (Sorry for the Canadian Reference). Possible but not a lot of fun.

Nick
 
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