Target Pool by Kim Davenport

Please re-read what I wrote. You think your intentions may be noble, but may make you liable for copyright violation.


Current Scenario
Target Pool at $150, only the collectors benefit
Kim gets nothing
Customers pay market rate $150


Trob's Scenario
Legit copies of Target Pool will sell at Market Rate
Kim get nothing
Customers, why should they pay when you're making copies and giving Kim's work away for free?


Ctyhntr's proposal
1st edition of Target pool will still sell at Market Rate. (collector's market)
Kim gets royalties for each copy sold of the 2nd edition, or reprints. Maybe get him to add more stuff? There are e-books, on demand book printing technology that didn't exist 20 years ago.

This would be perfect as kickstarter project. Bringing back an out of print book, and making it available. Customers get a reasonably priced copy of Target Pool (2nd edition).

There will always be people that want it free, not pay at any price. If you follow through on giving away free copies, you can fill that niche.


Look at the Balabushka cue market to see how could play out.
Original Balabushkas still trade at collector prices
Pete Tascarella makes cues in the Balabushka style.
Adams make a licensed copy at a price point for customers who can't afford the original or Tascarella.


Not too long ago Phil Capelle's Straight Pool book was out of print. Prices skyrocketed, and Phil Capelle didn't see a dime when copies sold on AZ, ebay, or Amazon for $75-$100.
2nd printing came out, now its back to $20 a copy.


trob said:
He's not making them any more and he isn't making any money off the people trying to sell a $30 dollar game for $150 dollars. I think because of your jerk off comment I'm going to make tons of copies tomorrow and send them for free to anyone who would like them. details to follow to anyone interested shortly
collectable value to me = opportunity to rob people
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First edition Harry Potter are sought by collectors, even though there are millions of copies out there. I can't see why the same won't hold for Target Pool.

For the buyers who want to use it as a learning tool, we may not even have to go to China, as there are on-demand presses here in the United States. Another route could be pdf e-books. That may be minimal work, just scan a copy and clean it up with a photo editor.

I put mine away, as it was too valuable to use daily. For practice, I take a picture with my iPhone of the pages that I need. "-)
I'll dig it up and see what I find in the copyrights.

Bob Jewett said:
Evidently the market wasn't large enough at the time it was first made to support continued production. Maybe things have changed now -- including manufacturing in China -- but it would be a lot of work to get more sets produced.

I don't think there is a large collectible value for the first run; I think most buyers want to use the sets for practice.

I think Kim was involved with the development but I think someone else did the design and production. I can't find any record in the Patent Office and I can't find my own copy of TP right now.
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Bob Jewett said:
... I think Kim was involved with the development but I think someone else did the design and production. I can't find any record in the Patent Office and I can't find my own copy of TP right now.
Click to expand...

I found my copy. It is copyright 1992 by Don Wilkie. The company is listed as Target Pool Productions, P.O. Box 219, Marysville, Michigan, 48040. There are three Don Wilkies in Michigan but none listed in Marysville.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Evidently the market wasn't large enough at the time it was first made to support continued production. Maybe things have changed now -- including manufacturing in China -- but it would be a lot of work to get more sets produced.

I don't think there is a large collectible value for the first run; I think most buyers want to use the sets for practice.

I think Kim was involved with the development but I think someone else did the design and production. I can't find any record in the Patent Office and I can't find my own copy of TP right now.
Click to expand...

It would be easy to produce more here in China. But the initial run should be at least 1000 sets to fulfill the minimum quantity of most factories.
 
if you ask me, and i don't want to get entangled in a mess of legal issues with anyone, i think this can be produced easily in China. and i disagree with my friend JB - you don't need thousands to accomplish this

i have an original and it is a great learning tool. and just on a "what's fair is fair" note without all the bull and 'legalease', Kim should get credit and be paid for any new merchandising of his product

i do not know the original price but i bought mine on ebay for around $20 or $30 many years ago. and for sure it is a great learning tool. maybe the best i have ever bought for a dedicated and serious student of the game. imho, Kim did a Great Job with this, therefore deserving credit for his work

if Kim wants, i will investigate. he can get in touch with me or thru Fatboy or JA

all the best,
smokey
 
trob said:
He's not making them any more and he isn't making any money off the people trying to sell a $30 dollar game for $150 dollars. I think because of your jerk off comment I'm going to make tons of copies tomorrow and send them for free to anyone who would like them. details to follow to anyone interested shortly
collectable value to me = opportunity to rob people
Click to expand...

I would love a copy!
 
smokey said:
if you ask me, and i don't want to get entangled in a mess of legal issues with anyone, i think this can be produced easily in China. and i disagree with my friend JB - you don't need thousands to accomplish this

i have an original and it is a great learning tool. and just on a "what's fair is fair" note without all the bull and 'legalease', Kim should get credit and be paid for any new merchandising of his product

i do not know the original price but i bought mine on ebay for around $20 or $30 many years ago. and for sure it is a great learning tool. maybe the best i have ever bought for a dedicated and serious student of the game. imho, Kim did a Great Job with this, therefore deserving credit for his work

if Kim wants, i will investigate. he can get in touch with me or thru Fatboy or JA

all the best,
smokey
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From the copyright, Kim does not own the rights to Target Pool. See above.
 
Found mine !

Still has everything that came with it score pad
and all . It has been sitting there collecting dust
for years . I only tried it a few times and now I
remember why . When I got it out at the poolhall
right away people would crowd ya asking questions like
hey whats that ? hows it work ? can I look at the book
for a second ? can I try that ?

LoL I just put it away and forgot about it .

If anyone wants it I would prob. trade it for
some other pool related item .

Thanks ..... Larry
 
hey Bob...

Bob Jewett said:
From the copyright, Kim does not own the rights to Target Pool. See above.
Click to expand...

i think i understand, i have/had a few CRs myself. that is why i didn't want to get into a legalese diatribe of what one can do. i can only say this; i feel a new system/game can be made and not interfere with the original CR

just mho, but i may be in error

all the best,
smokey
 
Bob,

Thank you for researching. Its my opinion that advances in self publishing and market conditions may make it lucrative for the original copyright holder to re-print.

I also agree with Smokey, that another game/system can be developed without infringing on the rights of the original copyright holder. I think further discussion on developing another game/system should be in its own thread.

Bob Jewett said:
Here is some more information:

http://www.thetimesherald.com/artic...ll-Don-Wilkie-says-Obama-s-father-got-bad-rap
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ctyhntr said:
... I also agree with Smokey, that another game/system can be developed without infringing on the rights of the original copyright holder. ...
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See my Billiards Digest article on exactly that.
 
wow

I had no idea this was such a hot item . I am getting lots of offers in pm
everything from a players cue , Jacoby break cue , Mcdermott sneaky , 2x4 case to a crisp $100 bill . I honestly had no clue they were so sought after . Wish I would have bought a truck load when I could :thumbup:

I will trade this off to someone soon just want to answer all pms and replys . Thanks .... Larry 563-321-2112
 
iowa_player said:
I had no idea this was such a hot item . I am getting lots of offers in pm
everything from a players cue , Jacoby break cue , Mcdermott sneaky , 2x4 case to a crisp $100 bill . I honestly had no clue they were so sought after . Wish I would have bought a truck load when I could :thumbup:

I will trade this off to someone soon just want to answer all pms and replys . Thanks .... Larry 563-321-2112
Click to expand...

I know that as soon as I get a copy of this I will find my old one. I have a digital copy of the game, but I miss the actual version.
 
chevybob20 said:
Is it illegal to post the rules and a picture of the contents?
Click to expand...
A link to an article about Target Pool is up in post #9. That article includes an example diagram including the target that is placed on the table.
 
nobcitypool said:
I suspect that us a copyright infringement but let your conscious be your guide. The product recently introduced by Jeremiah, Bullseye Billiards, is very similar and is superior in several ways.
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Jeremiah's product is very good. People interested can check it out here:

BullseyeBilliards

I also have lots of free "target pool" drills and resources available here:

"target pool" resource page

Regards,
Dave
 
Came back from 10 days training with Sandor Tot in Novi Sad in Serbia. (You can find out about his coaching and academy here.)

We played some ghost matches, did some great drills and practiced very nice safeties, but spend most time on target pool and I think it did wonders to my position play.

Since there are often questions on this forum about the original Target Pool by Kim Davenport I thought I'll post the videos of the 120 balls from the original Kim Davenports version I recorded two years ago (for improvements in stroke you can compare with this version 😄)

(I owe a funny translated German Version of the original Target Pool).

Ideas for practice:
You can play each shot or lesson (10 shots) against Kim Davenports score. For the score for the lesson he has 3 tries per shot and adds them up. For every shot you can see his average at the shot diagram. For example I would try to play the shot 10 times and beat Kim's average.

The cloth of the original game was too thick anyway. You can have your own printed on canvas in every shop that performs printing on t-shirts and the like.

So here it goes:
00 target pool.jpg


"Practice makes perfect!" - - MOM
 
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