Team USA will not have Justin Bergman at Mosconi Cup

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do recall stories of Bergman driving 15+hrs to Vegas and wherever else to play b/c he wouldn't fly.

Losing team gets $20K per player. Gut must be one of those rich pool players that don't need money.
My Dad is the same way. You will NEVER see him in a plane. AAMOF, I'm afraid of what he might tell St Peter to do with those wings on judgment day!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: sjm

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I guess I dont get it. What's wrong with the "Team USA thing"?
Nothing, if you want to get continually flogged at the Mosconi. On the other hand if you would prefer to present a stronger team you could accept players from neighbouring countries. Of course at that point it wouldn't really be a "Team USA", would it...

So the question remains. Why doesn't "Team USA" reach out to players beyond their own borders...? My guess is that they don't want the headaches, and would prefer to retain the 'us versus the all of Europe' symbolism.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nothing, if you want to get continually flogged at the Mosconi. On the other hand if you would prefer to present a stronger team you could accept players from neighbouring countries. Of course at that point it wouldn't really be a "Team USA", would it...

So the question remains. Why doesn't "Team USA" reach out to players beyond their own borders...? My guess is that they don't want the headaches, and would prefer to retain the 'us versus the all of Europe' symbolism.
Or.....Matchroom wont allow it? I'm asking because I dont know.

Wasn't the Mosconi cup originally a USA vs England match? Or was it always all of Europe? And I could never figure out why Russia is considered part of Europe. Wasnt there a player from Russia (Gorst) that played in the MC recently?

Europe has a huge advantage solely on the huge area and population to choose players from.

If you only include countries that are part of the European union, you would have an estimated population of 435 82 million....still a distinct advantage. Of course since England is no longer part of the union, it would exclude them. But if you add them anyway, you would have 513.88 million people to choose from. And since fewer and fewer people in the US are playing serious pool, the problem is exacerbated.

I think the US does need to open up. Maybe include all of North America?
 
Last edited:

realtor1618

Registered
Or.....Matchroom wont allow it? I'm asking because I dont know.

Wasn't the Mosconi cup originally a USA vs England match? Or was it always all of Europe? And I could never figure out why Russia is considered part of Europe. Wasnt there a player from Russia (Gorst) that played in the MC recently?

Europe has a huge advantage solely on the huge area and population to choose players from.

If you only include countries that are part of the European union, you would have an estimated population of 435 82 million....still a distinct advantage. Of course since England is no longer part of the union, it would exclude them. But if you add them anyway, you would have 513.88 million people to choose from. And since fewer and fewer people in the US are playing serious pool, the problem exacerbates.

I think the US does need to open up. Maybe include all of North America?
About 75% of the Russian population lies within Europe
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
About 75% of the Russian population lies within Europe
Yes. . I know that... but I could never figure out why based on the political differences...among other reasons.
Screenshot_20210905-081952_Chrome.jpg
 
Last edited:

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Nothing, if you want to get continually flogged at the Mosconi. On the other hand if you would prefer to present a stronger team you could accept players from neighbouring countries. Of course at that point it wouldn't really be a "Team USA", would it...

So the question remains. Why doesn't "Team USA" reach out to players beyond their own borders...? My guess is that they don't want the headaches, and would prefer to retain the 'us versus the all of Europe' symbolism.
No doubt, guys like Pagulayan and Morra would help. So would Mexican Jesus Atencio, who is a fast-rising star. You'd have to call it Team North America, and, although it is not my preference to move in that direction, I would be OK with it. Still, addition of these players wouldn't be even close to enough.

With Kaci at 22, Gorst at 21, Filler at 23, the young nucleus of Team Europe will be around for a long time, and Ouschan and Shaw are only in their early 30's, so it looks like Team USA will be the underdog for many years to come. The balance of power stands with Europe, as at present the world's top 20 based on Fargo is comprised of 11 Asian players, 7 Europeans, 1 Canadian and 1 American.

I tire of the argument that because Europe has a bigger population than the US, the matchup is unfair. One of our European posters once suggested that there are 20 nine ball players in America for every nine ball player in Europe. Success lies in training, work ethic and preparation, not in population or numbers.

Mosconi participation, which guarantees a huge payday by the standards of tournament prize money in America, is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the American touring pro. It helps vitalize the big tournaments on the American pool calendar as they are the stepping stone to gaining a spot on Team USA.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No doubt, guys like Pagulayan and Morra would help. So would Mexican Jesus Atencio, who is a fast-rising star. You'd have to call it Team North America, and, although it is not my preference to move in that direction, I would be OK with it. Still, addition of these players wouldn't be even close to enough.

With Kaci at 22, Gorst at 21, Filler at 23, the young nucleus of Team Europe will be around for a long time, and Ouschan and Shaw are only in their early 30's, so it looks like Team USA will be the underdog for many years to come. The balance of power stands with Europe, as at present the world's top 20 based on Fargo is comprised of 11 Asian players, 7 Europeans, 1 Canadian and 1 American.

I tire of the argument that because Europe has a bigger population than the US, the matchup is unfair. One of our European posters once suggested that there are 20 nine ball players in America for every nine ball player in Europe. Success lies in training, work ethic and preparation, not in population or numbers.

Mosconi participation, which guarantees a huge payday by the standards of tournament prize money in America, is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the American touring pro. It helps vitalize the big tournaments on the American pool calendar as they are the stepping stone to gaining a spot on Team USA.
You are correct. Training and work ethics are key. But when you have double the population to choose from?

And I need more info on the 1 in 9 ratio. I would need proof of that statistic. Is it a general public statistic? Or is it among professional players?

But even if true, other pool disciplines added together might even the tally. Even in the US, 8 BALL is the most played game among the general public... not 9 ball.

True talent can move from one game to another. The problem is developing that talent. How many talented players would Europe have if you cut the population down to 333 million? Not as many as they do now.

Again, I agree that training and work are lacking in the States. So many dont have the spare time to train that hard. They are working for a living. Europe has what? A 4 day work week?
 
Last edited:

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Europe is a continent, not a country. USA is a country, not a continent. It would be logical maybe to consider the possibility of a Europe v. North America Mosconi Cup, in this regard. :)
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
And I need more info on the 1 in 9 ratio. I would need proof of that statistic. Is it a general public statistic? Or is it among professional players?
I said 20 to 1, and it's general public. In fact, there may be far more pro players in Europe than in America. I know that on the forum, we sometimes debate what a pro player is, and for me, it's someone who plays at at least 725 Fargo Rate and may be even 740. Either way, America doesn't have many pro players right now. If you use 740 as the cutoff, which is where I tend to go, we've got 37 pros. If you only use 725 as the cutoff, we've still only got 72. Europe has 45 players at 770 or higher.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
No doubt, guys like Pagulayan and Morra would help. So would Mexican Jesus Atencio, who is a fast-rising star. You'd have to call it Team North America, and, although it is not my preference to move in that direction, I would be OK with it. Still, addition of these players wouldn't be even close to enough.
You are of course 100% correct. As a Canadian it's nice to believe that Alex and Johnny would swoop in and help usher in North American dominance, but we all know it's really not going to make much if any difference at all
I tire of the argument that because Europe has a bigger population than the US, the matchup is unfair. One of our European posters once suggested that there are 20 nine ball players in America for every nine ball player in Europe. Success lies in training, work ethic and preparation, not in population or numbers.
So do I... Like somehow because there's more people that directly translates to more players and by extension more players wanting to be professionals.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let's go a little different direction... When it comes to high school football, why do the bigger schools always put up the best players. Why do they usually dominate over smaller schools? Don't say it's apples and oranges. It's still a numbers game. Yes you still get good talent from a small population. Sometimes a small High School puts up a Heisman Cup trophy winner but not as often as the larger schools do.

We've had two Pro football players I can think of the came from my area. One was Micah Hyde (Fostoria Oh). The other is Ben Roethlisberger (Findlay Oh) But both schools they came from where very small. There are probably schools from Chicago or New York or other large population base they have had many more Pro players come from there.

The same can be said of hockey, basketball, soccer, and many other sports. The larger districts with a larger demographic, with more funding will almost always gather the most talent.
 
Last edited:

penguin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Europe is a continent, not a country. USA is a country, not a continent. It would be logical maybe to consider the possibility of a Europe v. North America Mosconi Cup, in this regard.
I would rather watch a Team North America, made up of John Morra, Alex Pagulayan, Josh Roberts, Tony Chohan and Justin Bergman.

But that might be a little too much diversity for Matchroom :oops:

notokay.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM

benny-the-blade

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No doubt, guys like Pagulayan and Morra would help. So would Mexican Jesus Atencio, who is a fast-rising star. You'd have to call it Team North America, and, although it is not my preference to move in that direction, I would be OK with it. Still, addition of these players wouldn't be even close to enough.

With Kaci at 22, Gorst at 21, Filler at 23, the young nucleus of Team Europe will be around for a long time, and Ouschan and Shaw are only in their early 30's, so it looks like Team USA will be the underdog for many years to come. The balance of power stands with Europe, as at present the world's top 20 based on Fargo is comprised of 11 Asian players, 7 Europeans, 1 Canadian and 1 American.

I tire of the argument that because Europe has a bigger population than the US, the matchup is unfair. One of our European posters once suggested that there are 20 nine ball players in America for every nine ball player in Europe. Success lies in training, work ethic and preparation, not in population or numbers.

Mosconi participation, which guarantees a huge payday by the standards of tournament prize money in America, is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the American touring pro. It helps vitalize the big tournaments on the American pool calendar as they are the stepping stone to gaining a spot on Team USA.
Atencio is Venezuelan.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
Nothing, if you want to get continually flogged at the Mosconi. On the other hand if you would prefer to present a stronger team you could accept players from neighbouring countries. Of course at that point it wouldn't really be a "Team USA", would it...

So the question remains. Why doesn't "Team USA" reach out to players beyond their own borders...? My guess is that they don't want the headaches, and would prefer to retain the 'us versus the all of Europe' symbolism.
No, it would be "Team America" u%^k yeah, coming again to save the mother%$#^&' day yeah...

Jaden
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Justin doesn't travel anywhere....

Tried to get him to NY to play a paid exhibition versus Shaw and then Turning Stone, paid entry, room, driver ect....literally nothing more I could do to make it happen.

Still think he's the second best American. Though I'd like to see him play Woodward to settle that.
 
Top