Technical question about banking the cue

negfrequency

New member
For a professional pool player, what is considered the "tightest angle reasonable" when adding english to a shot that is shot directly at a cushion? See the image below.
bank.png
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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For a professional pool player, what is considered the "tightest angle reasonable" when adding english to a shot that is shot directly at a cushion? See the image below.View attachment 581562
If you shoot straight up the center of the table, you should be able to hit a ball on the cushion a diamond from the side pocket. (The harder side.) On a sticky table, you can probably land above the ball.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maximum spin effects/ angles are abosolutely a reference point...and I have always thought it good to know this when I play.

My home table is very different from tables out and about and there are certainly differences between other tables, so imo, it is something to make yourself aware of as you get up to play.
 

negfrequency

New member
If you shoot straight up the center of the table, you should be able to hit a ball on the cushion a diamond from the side pocket. (The harder side.) On a sticky table, you can probably land above the ball.
What size table are you referring to here? This is a reasonable and i think fair answer.
 

negfrequency

New member
It appears 60 degrees is the answer to my question (or 30 degrees if angle measured from the line of the shot), which is a bit tighter than what im capable of (but im no pro). Thanks so much everyone!
 

Bob Jewett

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It appears 60 degrees is the answer to my question (or 30 degrees if angle measured from the line of the shot), which is a bit tighter than what im capable of (but im no pro). Thanks so much everyone!
Play the shot softer and with some draw besides the side spin.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The pic below shows a striped ball that I use as my "cue ball" when testing side spin. I line the strip up vertically and facing me as shown and hit it straight at the rail (90-degrees), on the equator, with a level-as-possible cue, adding 1/3, 2/3 and maximum side spin (the "x"s cover the chalk marks where I hit the ball).

Where the "CB" hits the near rail on its return tells me what angle change (side spin effect) I get for that much side spin. On my "home" table (fairly old Simonis 860HR) the CB goes almost exactly 1 diamond wide for each 1/3 of maximum side spin - which is about 37° from straight back for maximum side.

This is very consistent for every cue stick I've tested this way, LD or HD with all kinds of tips.

pj
chgo

calibrating sidespin.jpg
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The pic below shows a striped ball that I use as my "cue ball" when testing side spin. I line the strip up vertically and facing me as shown and hit it straight at the rail (90-degrees), on the equator, with a level-as-possible cue, adding 1/3, 2/3 and maximum side spin (the "x"s cover the chalk marks where I hit the ball).

Where the "CB" hits the near rail on its return tells me what angle change (side spin effect) I get for that much side spin. On my "home" table (fairly old Simonis 860HR) the CB goes almost exactly 1 diamond wide for each 1/3 of maximum side spin - which is about 37° from straight back for maximum side.

This is very consistent for every cue stick I've tested this way, LD or HD with all kinds of tips.

pj
chgo

View attachment 581581
Enough about you , can you answer the OP's question?🤔😉
Screenshot_20210117-100355_Chrome.jpg
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Enough about you , can you answer the OP's question?
I answered it but forgot to point it out.

My test produced a maximum angle of 37°.
90° minus 37° = 53°, the answer to the OP's question (for a level cue hitting on the equator).

By the way, that's the same result as Bob described for hitting the CB toward the end rail (see below). And, as Bob said, the rebound angle can be "enhanced" by hitting below center on the CB.

pj
chgo

37°.jpg
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For a professional pool player, what is considered the "tightest angle reasonable" when adding english to a shot that is shot directly at a cushion? See the image below.View attachment 581562

Try it and see, a pro can't hit the cueball any further to the side than you can, they are just better at making the object ball while doing it. Higher speeds don't help you in this shot. Would also depend on the table setup by quite a bit.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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If you shoot straight up the center of the table, you should be able to hit a ball on the cushion a diamond from the side pocket. (The harder side.) On a sticky table, you can probably land above the ball.
Play the shot softer and with some draw besides the side spin.

Agreed. Maximum rebound angle change occurs with a "drag shot." The ideal tip contact point for maximum sidespin effect is here:


For more information and demonstrations, see the drag shot resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Agreed. Maximum rebound angle change occurs with a "drag shot." The ideal tip contact point for maximum sidespin effect is here:


For more information and demonstrations, see the drag shot resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
Thanks, Dave - the graphic showing where to hit the CB for sidespin "enhancement" is great. Am I right that maximum enhancement is achieved at the point where the CB "turns over" to natural roll? To paraphrase the OP's question, is there a maximum achievable sidespin effect (spin-to-speed ratio)?

I imagine that the greatest "angle enhancement" can be produced by shooting the CB at the highest speed that "turns over" just before hitting the rail - presumably shooting lengthwise at an end rail.

I feel a test coming on...

pj
chgo
 
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dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Thanks, Dave - the graphic showing where to hit the CB for sidespin "enhancement" is great. Am I right that maximum enhancement is achieved at the point where the CB "turns over" to natural roll? To paraphrase the OP's question, is there a maximum achievable sidespin effect (spin-to-speed ratio)?

I imagine that the greatest "angle enhancement" can be produced by shooting the CB at the highest speed that "turns over" just before hitting the rail - presumably shooting lengthwise at an end rail.

I feel a test coming on...

pj
chgo
That’s correct. The sidespin is most enhanced after full drag, at which point the CB is rolling.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I imagine that the greatest "angle enhancement" can be produced by shooting the CB at the highest speed that "turns over" just before hitting the rail - presumably shooting lengthwise at an end rail.
When I play at the bar, we play ball-in-kitchen, so if/when the CB takes a scratch and your only ball to shoot at is in-the-kitchen, I play off the long rail just outside the kitchen back to the opposite corner pocket. This requires a drag-spin shot where the drag has not evaporated (still back spining) at the rail so that the CB takes maximal spinn off the rail.

It is very close to neutral at this point (sliding), and I did see Dr. Dave's response. But somehow I have this feeling that a bit of draw (or at most skidding) at the rail allows the spin to "take more" than if the ball had obtained natural forward roll.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I play off the long rail just outside the kitchen back to the opposite corner pocket. This requires a drag-spin shot where the drag has not evaporated (still back spining) at the rail so that the CB takes maximal spinn off the rail.
On my practice table I get the same 2-diamond crosstable angle change with only 2/3 of maximum sidespin and no bottom. Could be my cloth's stickier than yours.
I have this feeling that a bit of draw (or at most skidding) at the rail allows the spin to "take more" than if the ball had obtained natural forward roll.
That sounds right - it probably has the most spin-to-speed just before starting to rotate forward. And the harder you can hit and still have room for the sliding to wear off, the more spin-to-speed you'll add - so you should be able to get the most angle change shooting lengthwise into an end rail from as far away as possible.

pj
chgo
 
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dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Silver Member
When I play at the bar, we play ball-in-kitchen, so if/when the CB takes a scratch and your only ball to shoot at is in-the-kitchen, I play off the long rail just outside the kitchen back to the opposite corner pocket. This requires a drag-spin shot where the drag has not evaporated (still back spining) at the rail so that the CB takes maximal spinn off the rail.

It is very close to neutral at this point (sliding), and I did see Dr. Dave's response. But somehow I have this feeling that a bit of draw (or at most skidding) at the rail allows the spin to "take more" than if the ball had obtained natural forward roll.

I thought the discussion was about kicking straight into a rail. If you want to reverse the angle off a kick, backspin at the cushion is definitely advantageous.
 
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