Tell 'em like it is, Alex!

John Barton

New member
bandido said:
The BSCP has a No Prima-Donna rule. They'd rather spend the excessive requested compensation on projects to benefit the many(other players in the country). This sport is not going to end up like another pro-sport here where the players' salaries got out-of-control which caused more harm to that sport. Now that pro sport orgs finances is in the red and all the players are getting 40% or more pay cuts. Advertisers/sponsors don't spend as much as you think for pool and that's common knowledge.

A "No Prima Dona" Rule? That's pretty good. I guess Earl is off the Philippine team then :)

I guess from the pro-side of the argument they would love to see salaries "get out of control".

Do professional golfers make salaries from the associations? How about tennis players? Does Nascar or Formula 1 pay salaries to the drivers? I don't think so, I think that i each of these situations the administrative and promotional body provides the format for each individual athlete to earn as much competitively as they can and also a format to gain the exposure that brings sponsors who want to share in that exposure.

Guiness could replace any player with any other anyway. There IS no personality on this tour. The title sponsor makes the players dress in a bland Guiness uniform with a little room on the sleeve allowed for player's other endorsements. It's clear that pool players don't have to worry about their "salaries" getting out of control any time soon.

And the way that this is being handled is ridiculous. If a player does receive an INVITE to this "tour" then they should be allowed to play it out. This is a tour only in the sense that a traveling carnival is a tour. The players are handpicked rather than having to earn their spots and as we see just like pro wrestling any player can be yanked off the card at any time if he does not behave.

Make it a TRUE tour and invite the best in the WORLD to come and play. Have qualifiers and a truly inclusive roster. Forget about this nonsense about making the player looked like trained monkeys and let's see them play in a truly competitive environment that is inclusive and not divisive.

If I were a player on the Guiness Tour I guess I would need to keep my head down and not piss off management for fear that they would yank the meager earnings chance they are tossing out like breadcrumbs to beggars.

I bet they spend more on the promotional crap than they do on the prize funds. Don't worry about pool player's salaries getting "out of control" as long as you have such complete CONTROL over the players.
 

bandido

Player Power!
Silver Member
John Barton said:
A "No Prima Dona" Rule? That's pretty good. I guess Earl is off the Philippine team then :)

I guess from the pro-side of the argument they would love to see salaries "get out of control".

Do professional golfers make salaries from the associations? How about tennis players? Does Nascar or Formula 1 pay salaries to the drivers? I don't think so, I think that i each of these situations the administrative and promotional body provides the format for each individual athlete to earn as much competitively as they can and also a format to gain the exposure that brings sponsors who want to share in that exposure.

Guiness could replace any player with any other anyway. There IS no personality on this tour. The title sponsor makes the players dress in a bland Guiness uniform with a little room on the sleeve allowed for player's other endorsements. It's clear that pool players don't have to worry about their "salaries" getting out of control any time soon.

And the way that this is being handled is ridiculous. If a player does receive an INVITE to this "tour" then they should be allowed to play it out. This is a tour only in the sense that a traveling carnival is a tour. The players are handpicked rather than having to earn their spots and as we see just like pro wrestling any player can be yanked off the card at any time if he does not behave.

Make it a TRUE tour and invite the best in the WORLD to come and play. Have qualifiers and a truly inclusive roster. Forget about this nonsense about making the player looked like trained monkeys and let's see them play in a truly competitive environment that is inclusive and not divisive.

If I were a player on the Guiness Tour I guess I would need to keep my head down and not piss off management for fear that they would yank the meager earnings chance they are tossing out like breadcrumbs to beggars.

I bet they spend more on the promotional crap than they do on the prize funds. Don't worry about pool player's salaries getting "out of control" as long as you have such complete CONTROL over the players.

It is nice to see players maximizing their earning potentials and get what they deserve. It is every Association's goal and so with a high popularity of the sport in general. Unfortunately, the corporate sponsors don't look through a pool afficionados eyes thus have a harder time of justifying a higher budget for marketing through pool events. At this point, cooperation in uplifting the image and value of the sport as a marketing vehicle is sorely needed. Who wouldn't want to see our players become global household names? Everybody wins when that day comes but 'til then everybody needs to work together and be more understanding of the current state of the sport, what and how to achieve our goals.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bottom line, the BCSP is not doing Philippines any good to elevate the sport by the way they handled Alex Pagulayan.

The BCSP puts out a press release and states Alex disgraced the sport to cover their butts, all because Alex wouldn't perform like a trained monkey on TV for free.

If the ultimate goal is to elevate the sport, the BCSP isn't doing the sport any good by this recent action. It has caused angry feelings, and why? Because somebody at the BCSP was upset with Alex.

I wish Alex Pagulayan the very best. I wish he'd come to the United States and hang his cue here for a while. Can he get triple residency status? Come to America, Alex, where your talents and colorful personality are appreciated.

Alex is an asset to the sport. People around the world enjoy seeing Alex compete. He's one of the good guys.

JAM
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
vin said:
without alex.. we sure would miss these kind of moments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJbfmx1wGTo

The video speaks louder than words. Right on. The audience didn't look like they were tortured to me. In fact, they seemed like they were having the time of their life. A pool player like Alex Pagulayan is what will elevate the sport. Not only can the kid play, but he's got charisma. :)

JAM
 

bandido

Player Power!
Silver Member
JAM said:
Bottom line, the BCSP is not doing Philippines any good to elevate the sport by the way they handled Alex Pagulayan.

The BCSP puts out a press release and states Alex disgraced the sport to cover their butts, all because Alex wouldn't perform like a trained monkey on TV for free.
If the ultimate goal is to elevate the sport, the BCSP isn't doing the sport any good by this recent action. It has caused angry feelings, and why? Because somebody at the BCSP was upset with Alex.

I wish Alex Pagulayan the very best. I wish he'd come to the United States and hang his cue here for a while. Can he get triple residency status? Come to America, Alex, where your talents and colorful personality are appreciated.

Alex is an asset to the sport. People around the world enjoy seeing Alex compete. He's one of the good guys.

JAM

Since you're basing your emotional answers on this issue, allow me to respond to this. Keep in mind though that this is a completely separate issue.

The show is a pilot program that suppose to help bring the sport to possible advertisers attention. Now this is doing something about uplifting the sport. Majority of the advertisers here are only attracted to major pool events thus there are a lot of "inactive" time and this will serve to fill-in that lull. Players then can stay sharp and still have a capacity to earn a decent living from this weekly events.

Considering that it's a low-budget pilot event used mainly to attract potential sponsors will you, if you were the event organizer, be willing to pay an appearance fee double that of the 1st prize?

How's it in your neck of the woods Jen?
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bandido said:
Since you're basing your emotional answers on this issue, allow me to respond to this. Keep in mind though that this is a completely separate issue.

The show is a pilot program that suppose to help bring the sport to possible advertisers attention. Now this is doing something about uplifting the sport. Majority of the advertisers here are only attracted to major pool events thus there are a lot of "inactive" time and this will serve to fill-in that lull. Players then can stay sharp and still have a capacity to earn a decent living from this weekly events.

Considering that it's a low-budget pilot event used mainly to attract potential sponsors will you, if you were the event organizer, be willing to pay an appearance fee double that of the 1st prize?

How's it in your neck of the woods Jen?

How's it in my neck of the woods? Poker, poker, and then more poker. :D

No TV stations have ever requested pool players in my area to participate in a TV pilot program. That's for sure.

I would truly love to hear from someone associated with Alex Pagulayan to learn more about why he objected to participating. I can only base my opinion on what I have read.

Is there a Phoebe in the house? :)

JAM
 

crosseyedjoe

Anywhere but here
Silver Member
bandido said:
Since you're basing your emotional answers on this issue, allow me to respond to this. Keep in mind though that this is a completely separate issue.

The show is a pilot program that suppose to help bring the sport to possible advertisers attention. Now this is doing something about uplifting the sport. Majority of the advertisers here are only attracted to major pool events thus there are a lot of "inactive" time and this will serve to fill-in that lull. Players then can stay sharp and still have a capacity to earn a decent living from this weekly events.

Considering that it's a low-budget pilot event used mainly to attract potential sponsors will you, if you were the event organizer, be willing to pay an appearance fee double that of the 1st prize?

How's it in your neck of the woods Jen?

So we are actually talking about Sargo's Golden Classics then by Bugsy's Promotion.

"A Poker Pool event, "Sargo" is organized by RPN-9 and Solar Entertainment Corp. It will be aired every Saturday from 7 to 9 p.m."



I'm still not so sold about this "mumbo-jumbo" with regards to Alex "unbecoming" behavior. Who are they protecting, the Philippine image, the players, Guinness tournament or their own asses? Payback still happens a lot in Philippines that we can't deny. It sounds more an excuse to me than anything else. "Clowning" as if he is not known for it. Mind you, they will start accussing him of "sharking" not just "clowning," once they learn how Alex is and plain "clowning" accussation won't stick.
 
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!Smorgass Bored

Hump ? What HUMP ?
Gold Member
JAM wrote:
I wish Alex Pagulayan the very best. I wish he'd come to the United States and hang his cue here for a while. Can he get triple residency status? Come to America, Alex, where your talents and colorful personality are appreciated.



I'm all for that. Come hang out at Hammer Heads Billiards.
Doug
( I'm in a generous mood today )
 

sygfrid

alaskador
Silver Member
Here's one of the articles I found from Billiard Philippines

Recah Trinidad Inquirer First posted 11 hours and 45 mins ago

MANILA, Philippines -- There's always a thrill in seeing Alex "The Lion" Pagulayan sizzle and roar in big international pool tournaments.

But there will be no Pagulayan to do his wild thing, at least in the next leg of the Guinness Tour.

He has been scratched out after the Singapore leg.

There were conflicting reports on why Pagulayan, the 2004 World 9-ball champion and the 2005 US Open 9-ball titlist, has been withdrawn.

Actually, Pagulayan protested and claimed he had already purchased a round-trip ticket to Shanghai in anticipation of his entry in the China leg by virtue of his semifinal finish in the Singapore leg recently.

Pagulayan blasted the Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines (BCSP) and claimed his ouster would definitely affect his game in the ongoing Cebu Open where he is one of the favorites.

BCSP president Ernesto Fajardo stated that the decision to replace Pagulayan was a prerogative of the BCSP executive committee.

***

The BCSP also e-mailed a statement to this reporter to clarify why Pagulayan has been withdrawn from the four-man RP team competing in the Guinness 9-ball tour set in China Aug. 3-5.

Kindly share the statement:

Last Thursday, July 26, the Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines, through its Executive Committee and Board of Directors, decided to withdraw the name of Alex Pagulayan as Filipino participant from the Shanghai Leg of the Guinness Pool Tour on Aug. 3-5.

That decision was made after a review of Pagulayan's conduct during his semifinal match with Malaysia's Ibrahim Amir in the Singapore Leg last July 13-15. We found his actuations during the match unworthy and unacceptable for a representative of a country that is regarded today as "the epicenter of international pool." His antics amounted to "sharking" -- the pool term for acts to disrupt and disarm one's opponent in order to win. So gross were his actions that in the end, Ibrahim repaid him in kind. To many, including not a few Filipinos, it seemed only just that the Malaysian won the match.

The BSCP believes that Pagulayan's behavior demanded at the very least that he no longer be sent to the tournament that he had disrespected. His presence in Shanghai would only serve to remind our Asian neighbors of his behavior. Hence, the decision to replace him with Jeffrey de Luna, a Filipino player much prized by the tour organizers.

Playing in the Guinness Tour is a privilege, not a right. It is our sports body's policy to choose players who can do honor for our country and our sport, and allocate slots as fairly as possible. Two times out of four legs, Pagulayan was accorded the privilege; both times he failed. And it is doubly unfortunate that he did not play and lose with grace.

With respect to the wild statements that Pagulayan has made to the media following his recall, we have this to say:

1. His claim that he was being replaced as Philippine representative in the Guinness Tour because he refused to play in a TV program is false. The supposed meeting he alludes to -- and the supposed invitation made to him -- never took place. There was an attempt to arrange a meeting with him, but he said he could not talk until he came back from Cebu on July 28. So he does not know what we wanted to discuss with him (his Singapore behavior and our billiards program, among others), and we did not hear any of his mercenary demands.

2. His claim that he sacrificed a place in the International Pool Tour (IPT) in 2005 for the sake of playing for the Philippines in the Southeast Asian Games is a lie. He was not invited to the IPT then. He only became an IPT member in 2006. When he became an IPT member, he promptly told the BSCP that he would not play for the country in the Asian Games in Doha in 2006. Later, he dangled the possibility of playing if he would be given money. The money request was turned down.

3. His statement about being used by BSCP in order to make money off him is bewildering. In the two BSCP national championship events he participated in, neither the sports body nor the promoter made any money. We do our utmost to find sponsors and benefactors to sustain major events in the country, but so far income has not been enough to cover costs. So this charge of exploitation is both absurd and incredibly ungrateful for someone who has earned over a million pesos from our billiards program.

That program continues with the 2007 and 2008 World Pool Championship, the San Miguel Asia-Pacific Pool Tour, the 2008 WPA World 10-Ball Championship, the Philippine Pool Tour, and Pool Showdown, a reality TV show. In all these, the format is always competitive pool. The BSCP and the promoters will not offer money guarantees to any player, no matter how inflated his ego. It would be unfortunate, given Pagulayan's mercenary demands, if he will miss these major pool events in the international pool calendar.
 

corvette1340

www.EpawnMarket.com
Silver Member
JAM said:
How's it in my neck of the woods? Poker, poker, and then more poker. :D

No TV stations have ever requested pool players in my area to participate in a TV pilot program. That's for sure.

I would truly love to hear from someone associated with Alex Pagulayan to learn more about why he objected to participating. I can only base my opinion on what I have read.

Is there a Phoebe in the house? :)

JAM

Jam,
Since Keith is playing a lot of poker these days and we'll never gamble on the pool table, would he be interested in playing a heads up match online? I will play any game he wants and cover any amount he wants to play for. Just a little action maker, since nobody seems to be able to get a pool game down on here.
 

sygfrid

alaskador
Silver Member
Sorry, but I'm quite confused...

Isn't Alex already a CANADIAN citizen? If so, how come he's still part of the Philippine Team? Or does he have a dual-citizenship?:confused:
 

crosseyedjoe

Anywhere but here
Silver Member
sygfrid said:
Sorry, but I'm quite confused...

Isn't Alex already a CANADIAN citizen? If so, how come he's still part of the Philippine Team? Or does he have a dual-citizenship?:confused:


Yes he has dual-citizenship.

SIDENOTE: dual-citizenship is usually applicable only to the country offering the secondary citizenship. Alex is Canadian first before Filipino unless he gives up his Canadian citizenship. Canada doesn't have to recognize his secondary citizenship.
 
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td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
JAM said:
Do you stand by with Alex's stance, or should he have kept quiet? [...] The pool industry is the one making all the big bucks, while pool players scrape for crumbs. What say you?
I support Alex's efforts, but I think they are misplace at this point. As sad as it seems, it appears that Alex is not so popular that the Asian pool world must bend to his "demands." He's popular, but he's not indispensible. Nike might bow to Tiger, and Hanes might bow to Jordan, but it is clear that Alex isn't generating millions for any sponsor, so getting his "cut" isn't going to happen and -> just keeps his face from public spotlight - where he could eventually become indispensible. I don't think Efren is that famous. In reality, I believe only the Black Widow commands any "household" familiarity.

It's the same truth for many other pro's in almost every other sport - they are just not popular enough to generate sponsorship (or other) income. When Alex is a household name (and not just a pool-hall name), I think he could get away with demanding money for appearances. But without a significant fan base (i.e., million members+), Alex is just "another" world class pool player stuck in financial mediocrity.

In sum, I have to disagree with Alex on this one (and agree with Lou). I think Alex pissed in his Cherios this time...

-td
 
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!Smorgass Bored

Hump ? What HUMP ?
Gold Member
I'm An Authority

td873 said:
I think Alex pissed in his Cheerios this time...
-td



Finally, I can jump in where my experience with these matters may be of a big help. Tell Alex to add a 12 oz. can of beer to his Cheerios and he'll never know the difference.
Doug
( and a sliced banana or strawberries will help...... TOO )
 

bandido

Player Power!
Silver Member
crosseyedjoe said:
I'm still not so sold about this "mumbo-jumbo" with regards to Alex "unbecoming" behavior. Who are they protecting, the Philippine image, the players, Guinness tournament or their own asses? Payback still happens a lot in Philippines that we can't deny. It sounds more an excuse to me than anything else. "Clowning" as if he is not known for it. Mind you, they will start accussing him of "sharking" not just "clowning," once they learn how Alex is and plain "clowning" accussation won't stick.
Yes there is a deeper issue. I usually don't choose my words carefully but since Alex is a friend too...... I too don't think that he is aware of and understand the business part and responsibilities of running events let alone a NSA (National Sport Association).

With regards to accusations and opinion about the BSCP, those are all false and unfair. They've worked their butts off for the Filipino Pool Community as evidenced by their achievements and all these in just 2 years! I feel sorry for the current BSCP Executive Commitee, they're getting blasted for the shortcomings of the older regime and having a hard time breaking away from that predecessors image.
 

bandido

Player Power!
Silver Member
td873 said:
I support Alex's efforts, but I think they are misplace at this point. As sad as it seems, it appears that Alex is not so popular that the Asian pool world must bend to his "demands." He's popular, but he's not indispensible. Nike might bow to Tiger, and Hanes might bow to Jordan, but it is clear that Alex isn't generating millions for any sponsor, so getting his "cut" isn't going to happen and -> just keeps his face from public spotlight - where he could eventually become indispensible. I don't think Efren is that famous. In reality, I believe only the Black Widow commands any "household" familiarity.

It's the same truth for many other pro's in almost every other sport - they are just not popular enough to generate sponsorship (or other) income. When Alex is a household name (and not just a pool-hall name), I think he could get away with demanding money for appearances. But without a significant fan base (i.e., million members+), Alex is just "another" world class pool player stuck in financial mediocrity.

In sum, I have to disagree with Alex on this one (and agree with Lou). I think Alex pissed in his Cherios this time...

-td

Oh so true. Working on getting player/players, if not the sport itself, to that status is the current goal. So, these controversies damage whatever positive image that was worked hard for.

About the emboldened part of your post:
Players should quit acting like they do generate millions for sponsors because they don't. Like I said in another thread, some players need to get off of their imaginary high horse and help work on getting themselves on a real one.
 

Renegade

Consume Mass Quantities!
Silver Member
I would rather defer my opinion on the matter to those of forum members better placed to know something about these things, such as Bandido, Bayawak, gop-i, Jay, and pheobe choy.
cuycuy, also a member of this forum, is from raya sports and is, i believe, related to yen makabenta, president of raya sports and the current BSCP chairman. Yen Makabenta was last year's BD (or is it Inside Pool?) Man of the Year for Raya Sports' successful staging of the 2006 WPC in Manila. i wonder what he has to say regarding this controversy?
 

Renegade

Consume Mass Quantities!
Silver Member
bandido said:
Yes there is a deeper issue. I usually don't choose my words carefully but since Alex is a friend too...... I too don't think that he is aware of and understand the business part and responsibilities of running events let alone a NSA (National Sport Association).

With regards to accusations and opinion about the BSCP, those are all false and unfair. They've worked their butts off for the Filipino Pool Community as evidenced by their achievements and all these in just 2 years! I feel sorry for the current BSCP Executive Commitee, they're getting blasted for the shortcomings of the older regime and having a hard time breaking away from that predecessors image.

Hi Bandido. I think you're one of the few people here whose opinion (with regards to this controversy) matters. I have a few questions, if you could indulge me. I'd understand if you would refuse to answer some or all, if it might put you in a bad position.....

First, is San Miguel Beer even slightly involved in this issue? Does Puyat Sports have a tie-up with San Miguel? Is this the reason why Efren and Django didn't play in the Guinness Tour? Alex is also under the Puyat stable, I believe. Doesn't he endorse SMB as well?

I noticed that Ronnie Alcano used to be an endorser of SMB but then he joined the Guinness Tour. Did this affect his relationship with SMB? I noticed also that he endorsed San Mig Cafe while playing on the Guinness Tour.

Does Solar Sports have a tie-up with Bugsy Promotions? Are the players from Puyat Sports not allowed to play in Solar Sports events?

Thank you for your contributions to the thread so far. Hopefully Philippine Pool will emerge unscathed, if not better, after all the ugly mud-slinging.
 
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