Tell 'em like it is, Alex!

[!Smorgass Bored]

Here's Lookin At You, John

John -
I agree with what you say about the players and what they deserve, but it was the Philippine Association that took Alex off the national team and not the Guinness Tour.

Whew, thank God. I was dying for a beer ever since I quoted that threatening post.
Doug
( this being 'on the wagon' ain't easy...... imo )

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Are you kidding me? You all go about how Alex did the right thing. How he stood up for his rights. How the BCSP should restructure. Are you going to pay his bills. Sure clap him on the back but he suffers. Alex should have used this situation to be more productive for himself. He should have gone in and started negotiations. Whats he going to do get all Filipino pool players to strike on the BCSP? Doubt it. In business things can always get worked out if you can keep a cool head. Sometime you get the bear sometimes the bear gets you. But you dont give up the hunt. You got to give something to get it. You dont go on emotions but with serious analysis and thinking. The Phillipine nation can be a big support to this young mans career. He should rethink this.

I'm wondering if Alex is the one who should really needs to think or re-think the situation or is it the BSCP that needs all the re-thinking. maybe you haven't read the statements given by both parties. Alex complained that he got sacked by the BSCP off the team right after he refused to appear in a tv series (for free). if you would analyze the situation, it is more likely that the BSCP obliged or made it mandatory for Alex to appear in these so-called shows.as a professional, would you work for a company without any compensation? this is some sort of a blackmail inorder to get a grip on Alex.

may I ask what did the BSCP has done for Alex so far? I believe they were the ones hailing or riding on Alex when he first won the World Championships. however, you are right to say that the Philippine nation can be a big support to Alex's career, but not the BSCP. the BSCP does not represent the Philippine nation, especially if it's practices are corrupt and exploits the likes of Alex. had the BSCP paid or sponsored Alex for his tourney appearances? If they did, then I would gladly say that Alex had become a spoiled lil brat and deserves such actions by the BSCP, otherwise the BSCP should keep their mouth shut and swallow their ego. the nerve of such organization to make a profit out of individuals without giving what is due to them.

From my perspective, the BSCP dropped a bomb on Alex when they didn't get what they want from him and Alex on the otherhand, get back at them by exposing their monkey business (both literally and figuratively speaking).

the reasons alone by the BSCP are pathetic. such as his antics (which supposedly unacceptable, yet they should know or be aware of Alex's character by now) and supposedly poor performance (which made me think why didn't they sack Alcano and Manalo as well for failing to win).

I admire Alex's patriotism. in spite of being a Canadian as well, he chose to be identified as a Filipino and a Philippine representative, which is not an easy thing to do or as simple as it seems. probably the BSCP had disregarded this fact. the BSCP said that Alex dishonored them by his antics. If I am not mistaken, when was Alex got booed by the audience for his antics during the supposed match and did Guinness warned him for doing those things? I believe that the only one complained for his antics was the BSCP. does this make you a bit suspicious?

anyway, I'm just stating my point and analysis of the situation. you are welcome to give yours.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I agree - the whole "promoter didn't make any money" excuse is a load of horse crap. What are people doing these events for if they aren't making money in some form? If they are doing it just for their ego then include some PAYMENT to the players in the budget. Why do the players have to take it in the short end?

This is the EXACT same as the idiots who try and get graphic artists and web designers to work for "the exposure". You don't tell a world champion and US Open champion that he is lucky to be part of your team because of the "exposure". You want him precisely because he has accomplished those things and it's better for "your" exposure.

Congratulations Alex Pagulayan! Dear Guiness Tour, I want to see Alex Pagulayan on your tour. Until I do I won't watch the tour or drink any more Guiness beer. Alex "The Lion" is a true champion who brings flavor t0 the game that delights fans everywhere. You want heroes, here is one!

You are right on the money John. the BSCP really does have a big EGO just by saying that it's a privilege to play and represent the Philippines. If I'm not mistaken, the BSCP is the one which egged Alex to represent them. I highly doubt Alex begged the BSCP to include him on the team. Alex's exposure to the sport and recognition was due to his personal hardwork and not of the BSCP. I didn't see the BSCP supported Alex before he won his first major title. Alex sponsorship deals and previous tv appearances (some he did for free and some he got paid) was a fruit of his own labor. the BSCP is just joining the fray and made it appear that they did something big for the lil guy. the BSCP issue I believe must really involve a lot of money, considering that it made waves out of the media.

 

[yobagua]

"would you work for a company without any compensation?"

Yes I have and I will. I think I give a lot to the companies I work for. For free. I give them my time and effort and ideas and I dont charge them for a lot of things. But where else can I make a comfortable 6 figure a year income. These are the things you have to balance.
I suspect many people give up time and effort without compensation. You dont expect your employers to pay for your gas and car repairs for your travel to work? Yet you can negotiate a salary that can compensate that.
In Asia these are accepted facts. That you give to the company. It gives back to you. Thats why they get huge bonuses twice a year. Thats why their cars and technical products are selling so well. I dont feel Alex needs to follow anyones leash. He is a champion in his own right. But I hope he doesnt think he can go it alone.
Puyat supports many pool players and because of him they have been able to make big gains. But fail to live by his standards and you are out of there.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

"would you work for a company without any compensation?"

Yes I have and I will. I think I give a lot to the companies I work for. For free. I give them my time and effort and ideas and I dont charge them for a lot of things. But where else can I make a comfortable 6 figure a year income. These are the things you have to balance.
I suspect many people give up time and effort without compensation. You dont expect your employers to pay for your gas and car repairs for your travel to work? Yet you can negotiate a salary that can compensate that.
In Asia these are accepted facts. That you give to the company. It gives back to you. Thats why they get huge bonuses twice a year. Thats why their cars and technical products are selling so well. I dont feel Alex needs to follow anyones leash. He is a champion in his own right. But I hope he doesnt think he can go it alone.
Puyat supports many pool players and because of him they have been able to make big gains. But fail to live by his standards and you are out of there.

well that's Puyat and I believe Puyat gives what is due to players. the BSCP organization on the otherhand, got a big EGO up inside their temple without offering much to players except invitations only. Puyat is not the BSCP. I believe that Alex negotiated with the BSCP as was indicated in his statements. what happened was the BSCP refused to give some form of compensation and the BSCP even denied such allegations made by Alex that such negotiations ever happened. so if I were to evaluate what the BSCP is doing, it is more like "I tell you what to do and I take all of it". the BSCP may say that they are giving Alex a favor by giving him exposure, which is a laughable matter since Alex is already a well-known figure. if the aim of the BSCP was to give exposure to such players and give them some airtime, then they should concentrate on the skilled, yet virtually unknown players. which I highly doubt that the BSCP would do.
I believe that a lot of countries would love Alex to represent them and pay him just. I'm thinking that this would become a really big issue if Alex were to change or represent another region and lash back on the BSCP. it would be embarassing on the part of the BSCP on how they lost a representative for the Philippines. but I'm still highly doubtful of the BSCP, since corruption is as thick-skinned as it can be. anyway, Alex can live without the BSCP's supposed help since he is doing all of the hardwork. it is better for him to scale off some of those parasites feeding on his popularity. I wish Alex the best of luck and good riddance to the BSCP.

 

[bandido]

LOL! Are you guys basing your comments on what's on AzB's Front Page (Home Page)? If so, then that report is questionnable. It is a known fact that the article writer is loyal to a group that's a BSCP critic. I'll let them, Alex and BSCP Executive Commitee, deal with this between themselves then just comment on the outcome of that meeting instead of basing my opinion on tainted/sensationalized media baloney.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... but I'm still highly doubtful of the BSCP, since corruption is as thick-skinned as it can be. ...

I have no reason to believe or disbelieve you, but I'm curious. In what way is the BSCP corrupt?

 

[bandido]

I have no reason to believe or disbelieve you, but I'm curious. In what way is the BSCP corrupt?

That too is a question that I'd like to hear answered to. People must not be aware that the current BSCP officials are just at it for only 2 years. The previous officials were there for more than a decade and hardly had any project to speak of. These new guys, who has just been running the organization for 2 years, have already brought WPC here (and again this year's edition), held 2 annual National Ranking tournaments (2006 & 2007), sent a representative to the World Junior 9-ball Pool Championships in Sydney, currently working on events to benefit the pros through continuous income from these weekly events and a nationwide membership program to bring the services and benefits down to grassroot level. The previous officials never even touched any of the above!

Don't dump on these new guys the shortcomings of the old group!

 

[John Barton]

I wanna make it clear that I know NOTHING of the BSCP either before or after the regime change. I am only on the side of the Professional Player who should be compensated for all apearances outside of pure charity work or competitions that are open to all comers. For invitational competitions and special events where the player's participation is used as a drawing card then there should be some compensation for the player to offset expenses and provide them with an income commensurate with their status in the sport.

For events such as the World Championship players who wish to participate in that know that they are among many and that their likeness will be used. The draw is the tournament itself and not any particular player. Although a player may have more pulling power than another - the overall attendance to such an event won't be signifigantly altered by the non-participation of any particular player.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

LOL! Are you guys basing your comments on what's on AzB's Front Page (Home Page)? If so, then that report is questionnable. It is a known fact that the article writer is loyal to a group that's a BSCP critic. I'll let them, Alex and BSCP Executive Commitee, deal with this between themselves then just comment on the outcome of that meeting instead of basing my opinion on tainted/sensationalized media baloney.

that's why I specifically said basing from... every opinion must always come from somewhere, instead of saying "I do or I don't believe ....period" , which is more baseless.

further, the supposed reasons presented by the BSCP were fishy enough to catch attention even for a simple layman. I'm a bit suspicious of the BSCP because of it. though I may play the part of an arbiter to this matter, there will always be someone who bears more weight over the other. I can fry one party or I can fry both or neither.

 

[GADawg]

That too is a question that I'd like to hear answered to. People must not be aware that the current BSCP officials are just at it for only 2 years. The previous officials were there for more than a decade and hardly had any project to speak of. These new guys, who has just been running the organization for 2 years, have already brought WPC here (and again this year's edition), held 2 annual National Ranking tournaments (2006 & 2007), sent a representative to the World Junior 9-ball Pool Championships in Sydney, currently working on events to benefit the pros through continuous income from these weekly events and a nationwide membership program to bring the services and benefits down to grassroot level. The previous officials never even touched any of the above!

Don't dump on these new guys the shortcomings of the old group!

Bandido - Please don't try to confuse us with the facts.

 

[bandido]

The Guiness Asian 9-Ball Tour is an Asian Tour that's more of an inter-Asian country competition. Players are nominated by the respective member countries' Sport governing body, in the Philippines case the BSCP. Thus Guiness Corp and the participating countries' governing bodies decide on who will represent the member countries.

 

[bandido]

Bandido - Please don't try to confuse us with the facts.

LOL! Sorry, didn't mean to be a party-pooper.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

The Guiness Asian 9-Ball Tour is an Asian Tour that's more of an inter-Asian country competition. Players are nominated by the respective member countries' Sport governing body, in the Philippines case the BSCP. Thus Guiness Corp and the participating countries' governing bodies decide on who will represent the member countries.

that's why I said that Alex should represent Singapore instead ! lol...j/k

anyway, goodluck to Alex and hope that other regions would support him for his antics which the BSCP found unacceptable by their standards.

 

[bandido]

that's why I specifically said basing from... every opinion must always come from somewhere, instead of saying "I do or I don't believe ....period" , which is more baseless.

further, the supposed reasons presented by the BSCP were fishy enough to catch attention even for a simple layman. I'm a bit suspicious of the BSCP because of it. though I may play the part of an arbiter to this matter, there will always be someone who bears more weight over the other. I can fry one party or I can fry both or neither.

.....or how those reasons were presented by the reporter. I just find it a shame if the public's judgement/opinion is made based on 2nd hand reports. Resulting backlash may even be unfair to both parties (both of which are doing great things for the sport). Anyway, until a meeting between Alex and the BSCP happens and a conclusion is reached I'd hold my opinion on the matter.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

As I had previously read from one excerpt. changing the players' lineup is a prerogative of the executive committee of the BSCP. so it can mean that anytime, the BSCP can ditch or drop a player out of their line-up whenever they wanted to, whether a player is already booked to play in a said event, they don't give a shit. So OK, it's their right. I just hope that this action of theirs doesn't haunt them in the future.

 

[JAM]

Now there are THREE press releases on AzBilliards Main Page about this brouhaha.

I don't understand the point/ranking system for BSCP. Alex had 70 points going into this tournament. You need 120 points to go to the finals.

Alex was scheduled to go to next BSCP tournament and pays for his own airfare, a might hefty sum. BSCP gets mad at Alex because he refuses to participate in a television series without compensation. It is then and only then that the BSCP goes public, stating Alex behaved poorly in a previous event, citing their reasoning, well after the tournament in question that Alex behaved poorly at had occurred.

BSCP then tells Alex that he will not be going to next BSCP tournament and replaces him with De Luna, right after Alex states he will not participate in television series without compensation.

De Luna has only 40 points at this time, instead of Alex's 70 points. De Luna has no chance to accumulate enough points to go to finals because he doesn't have enough points. I do not understand the point system of this tour, but that is what I read in the press releases.

Why doesn't the BSCP want the players with the highest points to go to the tournament representing Philippines? Wouldn't it be prudent for the BSCP to want the BEST players with the most points representing Philippines?

Alex, according to the NEWEST press release, after winning a tournament in Cehu (sp), has 80 percent of the pool players in Philippines supporting his stance, to include Efren and Bustie.

Alex is going to create a new pool organization in Philippines that, in his opinion, will treat the pool players fairly, and Efren and Bustie stand united with Alex.

JAM

 

[allprobilliards]

Pool in Phillippines seems to be just like any other country that begins in real organizational sports. Even though having dominant players, organized events and tour is a new thing there in just last 2-3 years it seems.

I think it's natural progression for players to band together. Alex seems like a good young and energetic person. Maybe he will follow in the steps of Charlie Williams and the UPA or Dragon Promotions. Hopefully he won't fall into the same mistakes or mishaps that happened early on.

Good luck!

 

[bandido]

Now there are THREE press releases on AzBilliards Main Page about this brouhaha.

I don't understand the point/ranking system for BSCP. Alex had 70 points going into this tournament. You need 120 points to go to the finals.

Alex was scheduled to go to next BSCP tournament and pays for his own airfare, a might hefty sum (ehem, ehem, ehem. Participants are alloted US$800 for expenses plus they keep whatever Prize money they win) . BSCP gets mad at Alex because he refuses to participate in a television series without compensation.(No connection whatsoever to the Guiness Tour) It is then and only then that the BSCP goes public, stating Alex behaved poorly in a previous event, citing their reasoning, well after the tournament in question that Alex behaved poorly at had occurred. (Complaint from a previous host country's org. People have to realize that other Asian countries are predominantly snooker playing nations so there are cultural differences to deal with)

BSCP then tells Alex that he will not be going to next BSCP tournament and replaces him with De Luna, right after Alex states he will not participate in television series without compensation. From what I gather, no official line-up was released before AP was contacted about his non-inclusion, however, a local sports journalist pre-empted and reported his (the journalist's) unofficial line-up.

De Luna has only 40 points at this time, instead of Alex's 70 points. De Luna has no chance to accumulate enough points to go to finals because he doesn't have enough points. I do not understand the point system of this tour, but that is what I read in the press releases.

Why doesn't the BSCP want the players with the highest points to go to the tournament representing Philippines? Wouldn't it be prudent for the BSCP to want the BEST players with the most points representing Philippines?

Alex, according to the NEWEST press release, after winning a tournament in Cehu (sp), has 80 percent of the pool players in Philippines supporting his stance, to include Efren and Bustie.

JAM

Sad as this will just cause divisiveness. But, this action may get them to realize that creating events isn't that easy and not the only chore that needs to be tackled by an NSA.

 

[bandido]

Here's an example of how faulty these news reports are. Snippet from the AzB front page news:

Pagulayan lamented that because he is already out of the Guinness tour, it would lessen his chances to make it to the World Pool Championships which will be held in Manila in November.
Baloney! WPC Champions of the last 5 years are automatically qualified. Alex won the WPC in 2004.

The Guinness Tour also serves as a qualifying event for the World Pool Championships.

"Aside from the date and the venue (of the WPC), there is no other information we get. We didn't even know that they had changed the tournament format from round-robin to double-elimination. That is the job of the NSA to notify the players of the development of the tournament," Pagulayan said.
This info was just released 6 days ago, 24 July 2007. http://www.worldpoolchampionship.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3446 I can see that he already knows of this info for him to comment about it.

The other players who are not entered in the Guinness 9-Ball tour will have to wait for another qualifying tournament in order to get a spot for the 2007 WPC.
Obviuosly! The Asian Tour only allots a limited number of slots for each participating nation. DUH!