thanks CJ Wiley

Unfortunately, I do not get to play very much - one night of league (with alone time maybe one hour prior) and perhaps 3-4 hours one other day.

I have been incorporating TOI as much as I can, and for me I have found the following to really be beneficial:
  • Shots down the rail.
  • Extreme cut shots
  • Long shots off the end rail regardless of cut angle

What I struggle with:
  • TRUSTING the stroke -- this is a big one. Trust it and let it out!
  • Cuts that are full tip at center ball -- find that slight TOI aimed at edge of ball seems to work better for me. this could be directly related to TRUST!
  • Hitting too hard -- I know most people probably have the opposite. Once again, TRUST in the stroke!

I played really well last nite - used TOI for a good portion of shots. Plan on continuing the journey. So far, very pleased. :thumbup:
 
C.J. - I have seen the Youtube video of you vs. Steve Mizerak - 9-ball Reno ... a classic match that you won. Were you using TOI at that point in your career?
 
"less is more" in pocket billiards

Six Shooter said:
Last night's 8 ball league matches were better than they have been the past few weeks since I'm still implementing TOI. I was back in the 40's again.

Is anyone out there using this for 8 ball?

I find it fairly simple to use with 9/10 ball.

8 ball is still giving me some problems though while trying to implement it. Am I the only one having a tougher time at playing 8 ball with TOI or did I just miss the boat? Lol. At present, I'm still coming into shots where I think spin would be better to use.

CJ, can you perhaps give some guidance here please?

Overall, I'm still enjoying opening up the new world with TOI but still have some work to do at it.

I give credit to the OP and again add my many, many thanks to CJ once more.

Every week there seems to be a little more light at then end of the tunnel.
Click to expand...

Yes, TOI works for all games in the same manner. What you will find is using TOI is a different game entirely. This sounds like a "general" answer is coming, however, I can go into as much detail as necessary. The most important factor is you don't have to make near as many choices.

Even in one pocket there is usually just one choice, sometimes two, depending on ball count, and "risk reward" considerations. When you spin the cue ball you have a wide range of things you can do, therefore a wide range of choices you have to make.

Many players think this is a good thing, I recommend they reconsider this because "less is more" in pocket billiards.

I played one pocket last night for two hours and played a "world class speed" the entire time. The player I was competing against is very accomplished and rarely got more than a couple of balls in a game. My game stays at a very high level and I spend most of my time teaching, not playing.

This is the first time in my lifetime I can do both the same, without conflict. There was a time, not to long ago that teaching hindered my playing, and now that I've been concentrating on the Touch of Inside the game is the easiest it's ever been for me to play, and enjoy.

The ending ball count was somewhere in the neighborhood of 160 to 32. He actually made many of his balls when he used TOI (he uses it unconsciously), he just doesn't realize the secret is doing it every time. Maybe he'll figure it out on his own, he'll probably never ask, and I'll probably never try to tell him ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'

In conclusion:

TOI is better to use in eight-ball in most shots, however, you have to look for the shot. This isn't something that happens over night, so be patience, but at the same time you have to know the shot is always there.

If I was there I could show you the shot every time, so you can believe, the challenge is to stay with it and commit to mastering your TOI shot, like I suggest in the video.

Spin is ONLY necessary when you're changing an angle off the cushion or curving the cue ball. Very rarely is there an exception and if you have any specific examples I'll be happy to show you this is accurate and true.
 
Six Shooter said:
Last night's 8 ball league matches were better than they have been the past few weeks since I'm still implementing TOI. I was back in the 40's again.

Is anyone out there using this for 8 ball?

I find it fairly simple to use with 9/10 ball.

8 ball is still giving me some problems though while trying to implement it. Am I the only one having a tougher time at playing 8 ball with TOI or did I just miss the boat? Lol. At present, I'm still coming into shots where I think spin would be better to use.

CJ, can you perhaps give some guidance here please?

Overall, I'm still enjoying opening up the new world with TOI but still have some work to do at it.

I give credit to the OP and again add my many, many thanks to CJ once more.

Every week there seems to be a little more light at then end of the tunnel.
Click to expand...

6 Shooter,

I am playing 8 ball & have put in several 3 hour sessions plus many shorter sessions & I am having similiar issues, though I am not staying with it as I am in an ind. money league with 3 weeks to go plus playoffs. After that I fully intend to give it a solid 3 to 4 weeks.

I think the exrta balls on the table & the fact that one is not dedicated to one ball for the next shot makes getting position on shots that promote a run make using outside the better option at times. Remember CJ said that he will go to outsde spin if changing the angle off of a rail is required. Well in 8 ball that pops up more often due to the 'blocking' balls etc.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one lagging behind in the flood surge.

Regards to You &
 
the banking system is really strong using the toi

ENGLISH! said:
6 Shooter,

I am playing 8 ball & have put in several 3 hour sessions plus many shorter sessions & I am having similiar issues, though I am not staying with it as I am in an ind. money league with 3 weeks to go plus playoffs. After that I fully intend to give it a solid 3 to 4 weeks.

I think the exrta balls on the table & the fact that one is not dedicated to one ball for the next shot makes getting position on shots that promote a run make using outside the better option at times. Remember CJ said that he will go to outsde spin if changing the angle off of a rail is required. Well in 8 ball that pops up more often due to the 'blocking' balls etc.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one lagging behind in the flood surge.

Regards to You &
Click to expand...

I have to disagree, I think it comes up less in 8 Ball. The range you have with the TOI is unbelievable. Until you put in the time and understand what that range really is you're only guessing.

I'm not guessing, with confidence I can do anything required in 8 Ball, Rotation, One Pocket or Straight Pool using the "Touch" Of Inside, and anyone can, if they commit to 3 weeks and ask me if they have any questions, or problems. We answer hundreds of questions a week and everyone we work with improves with TOI, some earlier than others. 'The Game is the Teacher'

ps: the banking system is really strong using the toi, and I have many requests to show that one sometime soon. It's different than the shotmaking system, but the same principles.
 
You must submerge yourself for a period of time before you can enjoy the benefits.

RobMan said:
Unfortunately, I do not get to play very much - one night of league (with alone time maybe one hour prior) and perhaps 3-4 hours one other day.

I have been incorporating TOI as much as I can, and for me I have found the following to really be beneficial:
  • Shots down the rail.
  • Extreme cut shots
  • Long shots off the end rail regardless of cut angle

What I struggle with:
  • TRUSTING the stroke -- this is a big one. Trust it and let it out!
  • Cuts that are full tip at center ball -- find that slight TOI aimed at edge of ball seems to work better for me. this could be directly related to TRUST!
  • Hitting too hard -- I know most people probably have the opposite. Once again, TRUST in the stroke!

I played really well last nite - used TOI for a good portion of shots. Plan on continuing the journey. So far, very pleased. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


Trust and Commitment are very closely related. TOI requires a period of commitment, the trust will develop, however, you don't just "stick your toe in" with something like TOI that takes commitment. You must submerge yourself for a period of time before you can enjoy the benefits. Such is Life.

You have the knowledge, your time will come if it's meant to be, and if you continue as you are you will still improve slowly, and surely.
 
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Perhaps I'm reading the patterns wrong or playing them wrong?

I'm still adapting and learning. I do like the results so far but feel like I've missed or overlooked a key point.

I'll go back and watch the DVD again to see if I missed a key point.

I'll admit that I have created a new favorite angle.

CJ, I may be emailing you some questions lol.
 
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CJ Wiley said:
I have to disagree, I think it comes up less in 8 Ball. The range you have with the TOI is unbelievable. Until you put in the time and understand what that range really is you're only guessing.

I'm not guessing, with confidence I can do anything required in 8 Ball, Rotation, One Pocket or Straight Pool using the "Touch" Of Inside, and anyone can, if they commit to 3 weeks and ask me if they have any questions, or problems. We answer hundreds of questions a week and everyone we work with improves with TOI, some earlier than others. 'The Game is the Teacher'

ps: the banking system is really strong using the toi, and I have many requests to show that one sometime soon. It's different than the shotmaking system, but the same principles.
Click to expand...

CJ,

Obviously you are correct. I have not been able to put in that consistent 3 to 4 weeks. So, I am not yet seeing all of the possible patterns, AND I am not confident & sure I am going to get the no spin angle with TOI as I am with the outside spin. Obviously I am still in La La Land.

I can't wait for me to win this league so I can put in 3 to 4 weeks uninterupted with TOI. Then I can follow the yellow brick road to the Land of Inside.:wink:

Best Regards,

and thanks again for all that you are doing for the game & those that play it.

and
 
It took as long to learn how to teach it as it took to master the TOI Shot

deLusan said:
C.J. - I have seen the Youtube video of you vs. Steve Mizerak - 9-ball Reno ... a classic match that you won. Were you using TOI at that point in your career?
Click to expand...

Yes, I had been on the road gambling and this was just my 2nd Pro Tournament. Many people had heard about me, but it wasn't like in these days of "az" and the internet, mostly there was just rumors of how I played.

For many years I was ask what the key to my shot making was and how I addressed the cue ball. Even in the match with Mizerak you'll hear Buddy Hall and Billy Incardona ask this question in a variety of ways. My strength has always been shooting long shots, especially off the rail, with the TOI System it doesn't matter as much how far the object ball is, the cue ball is the target.

I couldn't have explained how to use the TOI like I can now. It took as long to learn how to teach it as it took to master the TOI Shot. I'm glad I did because there are hundreds and soon to be thousands benefiting from using the TOI. It makes the game much easier, and this instantly makes it more fun. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ,

I am really putting in some time on TOI trying to learn. I find some of the shots go in like magic. Some others I struggle with. Could be a stroke or a speed issue.

My question is: When you are nearing the transition point, is this the furthest you have to go over on the CB? Would that be a tip or more? Also I hear you say you have to create the angle. Could you be a little more specific on how you do this. Just what is it are you looking at when you do this.

If I set up a 25 degree angle cut shot, I look at the shot straight on. I then look at the OB's closest point to the closest part of the pocket. Is this the amount I should use on the TOI? I find that when nearing the transition point I may be over 2 tips. It seems like I am doing something wrong. I'd have to go back and look at your DVD, but if I remember right, you said something about not using more than a tip.

I am struggling with this it seems when I get over 15-20 degrees. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Dougster
 
bauercrew said:
This may be a wasted time to read for the more seasoned players buy here goes:
I am new to billiards just been shooting since august 2012 skill level 3 on our apa league. Really struggle with this game so I got a couple DVDs on subject so I seen people talk about CJ Wiley so I contact through e-mail he suggested his UPS dvd,got it and watched and WOW what an eye opener, I really got into the shot alignment and aproachment .and he really talks about the consistency aspect and uses archery as an
Example and I thought WOW i can really understand when he talks about consistency
Because myself I shot field archery competitively for many years and even took state trophy in my class plus a lot of regional competitions he is definitely right about archery you NEED to consistently use same anchor point and grip for archery if not you will get NO where so I took the same approach for pool I started using his method of pre-shot routine and did it the same ALL time took a while to get into that routine BUT WOW I’m actually making more consistent shots ,and before that when I would play a level 4 or 5 player I WAS GETTING creamed ,it was so embarrassing (in a fun way) so couple weeks go by we play and I asked team capt to put me up against a 5 if he could, so he did and guess what I beat him ,granted it was only 2 games but this guy beat me terribly before I had to make a safety shot that turned the whole game around for me so did I technically beat him maybe not but I was pleased to walk away with a WIN for a change, so now I can at least give these level 4 and 5 guys a run for their money L.O.L granted I’m defiantly not running a rack any time soon L.O.L . NOW where I’m really struggling is on the BREAK it seems that IF I can make a ball or two on break I actually give my opponent a really hard time but I seems if they break forget it I don’t get a chance that often but I guess the break will be another whole lesson L.O.L
SO MY POINT :something SO simple as BASIC principles like shot alignment and consistently doing it. WOOOOW .AGAIN THANKS MR CJ WILEY

AND NO I AM AFFILIATED WIYH THIS GENTLEMAN
Click to expand...

I know what CJ tape you're talking about. I have it also. IMO that DVD is one of or the best dvd's someone just starting out to advanced can purchase. It covers so much stuff you have to whatch it a good number of times to get everything out of it. If there was a hall of fame for pool dvd's CJ's dvd's would be in it. Johnnyt
 
When getting down take a full 5 SECONDS to make sure of this alignment

dougster26 said:
CJ,

I am really putting in some time on TOI trying to learn. I find some of the shots go in like magic. Some others I struggle with. Could be a stroke or a speed issue.

My question is: When you are nearing the transition point, is this the furthest you have to go over on the CB? Would that be a tip or more? Also I hear you say you have to create the angle. Could you be a little more specific on how you do this. Just what is it are you looking at when you do this.

If I set up a 25 degree angle cut shot, I look at the shot straight on. I then look at the OB's closest point to the closest part of the pocket. Is this the amount I should use on the TOI? I find that when nearing the transition point I may be over 2 tips. It seems like I am doing something wrong. I'd have to go back and look at your DVD, but if I remember right, you said something about not using more than a tip.

I am struggling with this it seems when I get over 15-20 degrees. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Dougster
Click to expand...

If you're having to go over 2 tips it tells me your are pivoting, instead of going over TOI parallel. When you pivot it's ideal for spin, not for deflection.

Try this: Put the object ball on the head spot, the cue ball one diamond over from the foot spot. This is almost a perfect "half ball" shot and the most I advise using the center of the object ball to line up on. I want you to shoot this shot several times, with the following guidelines in place:

Move over a half tip, and MAKE SURE you move parallel to your TOI spot. How I do this is concentrating on making my cue tip perfectly flat and square to the inside curvature of the cue ball. If you pivot it won't look flat, you'll see it appear "raised up" or maybe even crooked.....make sure you are aligning the CENTER/TOP of you tip to this spot. Try to make this shot with a half a tip, but precisely aligning to the shot....if you can't do this move over to one tip, no more though....you can make this with one tip, but not if you pivot at all, you MUST go over perfectly parallel and aim with the center of you tip.

When getting down take a full 5 SECONDS to make sure of this alignment BEFORE shifting your eyes to the object ball. Then go directly back to the cue ball, double check then SHIFT YOUR EYES BACK TO THE OBJECT BALL as you hit the cue ball and FOLLOW the object ball in the pocket WITHOUT moving your head....move your eyes only.

This is an incredibly drill and even though you may not choose to play like this you will quickly see how important it is for cue ball connection.

THE CUE BALL IS THE TARGET WITH TOI....just be aware of the object ball's presence....you are free to look at any part you choose, just make sure you are locked into your FEEL and TOUCH, not your eyes at this point in the shot. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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"Move over a half tip, and MAKE SURE you move parallel to your TOI spot. How I do this is concentrating on making my cue tip perfectly flat and square to the inside curvature of the cue ball. If you pivot it won't look flat, you'll see it appear "raised up" or maybe even crooked.....make sure you are aligning the CENTER/TOP of you tip to this spot. Try to make this shot with a half a tip, but precisely aligning to the shot....if you can't do this move over to one tip, no more though....you can make this with one tip, but not if you pivot at all, you MUST go over perfectly parallel and aim with the center of you tip."

I do not understand this at all. I am having the same issue and would love a diagram explaining this.
 
the correct "eye access position" you need to correctly see the cue ball target.

Centerpunch said:
"Move over a half tip, and MAKE SURE you move parallel to your TOI spot. How I do this is concentrating on making my cue tip perfectly flat and square to the inside curvature of the cue ball. If you pivot it won't look flat, you'll see it appear "raised up" or maybe even crooked.....make sure you are aligning the CENTER/TOP of you tip to this spot. Try to make this shot with a half a tip, but precisely aligning to the shot....if you can't do this move over to one tip, no more though....you can make this with one tip, but not if you pivot at all, you MUST go over perfectly parallel and aim with the center of you tip."

I do not understand this at all. I am having the same issue and would love a diagram explaining this.
Click to expand...

A diagram won't do much, if I was watching you I could see in an instant. This issue has come up in most of my lessons lately because no one starts out aligning their tip perfectly "square" to the cue ball. This can always be improved on.

Try this: Get down on the cue ball and look at your tip up against the cue ball. Try to see it perfectly straight against the cue ball. If there's any angle to it you should be able to tell, or maybe your eyes aren't aligned to the tip straight.

Try this#2: Make a point to look at your tip BEFORE YOU GET DOWN.....if you're waiting to align your tip to your eyes after you're already down, you are waiting too long.....make the connection first, this may solve your issue.

If not, I have a few more ways, these usually lead you to the correct "eye access position" you need to correctly see the cue ball target.
 
Hi CJ,

Got the TOI dvd on the weekend and I must say it was worth every penny plus some.

I highly suggest this Dvd to any players looking to break into the next level to gets CJ's Dvd as I think they will appreciate the concepts and system that CJ outline that can really improve your game.

Personally, I when through the dvd very fast and it was an just one of those thing that you kinda knew but CJ clarified it perfectly in the video. The concepts and his natural style of play, just make the game feel so much easier and I know that my game when up from this revelation.

Can't really explain it (like CJ said..you really really have to experience it) but it feel like playing natural on most of the shots. To me it's a natural playing system that improve your feel for the game, the lines for using a touch of inside are just so natural and the speed of my stroke just fit right in to make my game more consistent. It a confident builder with every shot.

All I can say, this is a gold nuggets and CJ really open up as this is definitely an edge for a player that understand and incorporate the way of his system.

Thanks again...wish I could write a better testimonial....all I can say is that this is one of best lesson I gotten in long while.

Sincerely,
Duc.


Centerpunch said:
"Move over a half tip, and MAKE SURE you move parallel to your TOI spot. How I do this is concentrating on making my cue tip perfectly flat and square to the inside curvature of the cue ball. If you pivot it won't look flat, you'll see it appear "raised up" or maybe even crooked.....make sure you are aligning the CENTER/TOP of you tip to this spot. Try to make this shot with a half a tip, but precisely aligning to the shot....if you can't do this move over to one tip, no more though....you can make this with one tip, but not if you pivot at all, you MUST go over perfectly parallel and aim with the center of you tip."

I do not understand this at all. I am having the same issue and would love a diagram explaining this.
Click to expand...
 
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I appreciate that Johnnyt

Johnnyt said:
I know what CJ tape you're talking about. I have it also. IMO that DVD is one of or the best dvd's someone just starting out to advanced can purchase. It covers so much stuff you have to whatch it a good number of times to get everything out of it. If there was a hall of fame for pool dvd's CJ's dvd's would be in it. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

I appreciate that Johnnyt...those DVDs were done with a gentleman, Alin Bijan that also did some Chuck Norris movies and I met Michael Norris a couple of times at his studio. This was the only pool related video he ever did, however, he did several Discovery Channel Documentaries and History Channel specials.

I ended up going over 53 different things in those 3 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' and it took up nearly a month to complete. Back then the editing was much more difficult and time consuming than with the modern equipment we have now.

Thanks again, and I'm glad you enjoyed the DVDs....Aloha, CJ
 
Just watched your PPV last night and the first few series after the intro. all that I can say is "It makes sense" before getting you PPV I somewhat tried what were you talking about (I got frustrated in PRO ONE! so I experimented, no pivots, just Center to Center) :), I somewhat notice the deflection, and asked myself why it went in the pocket, so i tried again as the angles get deeper and deeper til I miss. I was hitting the CCB (i think), so after a miss, I asked myself again now what if the angle is deeper?......Now to me you shed a light, TOI makes sense I just havent been to the table and actually tried it out and knowing what to do..Table time is today I cant wait...Thanks Mr. Wiley
 
is would produce a miss, and how would you know it was the deflection?

dirtychapurado2 said:
Just watched your PPV last night and the first few series after the intro. all that I can say is "It makes sense" before getting you PPV I somewhat tried what were you talking about (I got frustrated in PRO ONE! so I experimented, no pivots, just Center to Center) :), I somewhat notice the deflection, and asked myself why it went in the pocket, so i tried again as the angles get deeper and deeper til I miss. I was hitting the CCB (i think), so after a miss, I asked myself again now what if the angle is deeper?......Now to me you shed a light, TOI makes sense I just havent been to the table and actually tried it out and knowing what to do..Table time is today I cant wait...Thanks Mr. Wiley
Click to expand...

Yes, you will understand more after you experience using the TOI and it brings to your awareness what deflection is all about.

The problem with trying to hit center is if you miss you won't know why. The harder you hit the cue ball with center, the more likely you are to deflect it off course. Try setting up the cue ball on the foot spot and it it hard, with center at the opposite rail and make it come straight back.

If you do this and the cue ball comes back a few inches off, it would do the same thing to an object ball. This would produce a miss, and how would you know it was the deflection?

The answer is you wouldn't.....that's why I choose to deflect the cue ball slightly on purpose, then I can control it and get the feedback I need to make the correct adjustments in case I don't make a shot. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
It makes the game so much easier and more importantly, SO MUCH MORE FUN.

Cuemaster98 said:
Hi CJ,

Got the TOI dvd on the weekend and I must say it was worth every penny plus some.

I highly suggest this Dvd to any players looking to break into the next level to gets CJ's Dvd as I think they will appreciate the concepts and system that CJ outline that can really improve your game.

Personally, I when through the dvd very fast and it was an just one of those thing that you kinda knew but CJ clarified it perfectly in the video. The concepts and his natural style of play, just make the game feel so much easier and I know that my game when up from this revelation.

Can't really explain it (like CJ said..you really really have to experience it) but it feel like playing natural on most of the shots. To me it's a natural playing system that improve your feel for the game, the lines for using a touch of inside are just so natural and the speed of my stroke just fit right in to make my game more consistent. It a confident builder with every shot.

All I can say, this is a gold nuggets and CJ really open up as this is definitely an edge for a player that understand and incorporate the way of his system.

Thanks again...wish I could write a better testimonial....all I can say is that this is one of best lesson I gotten in long while.

Sincerely,
Duc.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the DVD.

The main thing that champions are able to do is make all their shots seem the same, therefore creating tremendous consistency. The TOI System is a complete playing system to achieve this systematically and can be learned by anyone willing to invest a few hours of practice a day. It makes the game so much easier and more importantly, SO MUCH MORE FUN....'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ, I just received your Inside and Ultimate DVD's in the mail yesterday. For someone who has not had any help from an instructor, but is still a "fair" player which would you suggest watching first?

I used to play very often years ago, I became a fairly solid player, being able to run racks here and there.. I am now getting back into the game and want to get my fundamentals in order and have a strong basis to improve my game on....
 
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