That Darn Draw Shot

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
that i always struggle with, i was drilling them tonight! and getting whitey to pretty much come straight back. the speed control wasnt quite there yet, but at least i was making them.

DCP

p.s. who knows, might miss them by a mile tomorrow, just have to see, dunno...........:confused:
 
are you bringing your back hand/arm up to your chest on your follow through? or are you forcing your tip to the cloth in your follow through?
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
that i always struggle with, i was drilling them tonight! and getting whitey to pretty much come straight back. the speed control wasnt quite there yet, but at least i was making them.

DCP

p.s. who knows, might miss them by a mile tomorrow, just have to see, dunno...........:confused:
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Its a start, yes it might not work as well tomorrow, who knows, I don't. Think positive tomorrow isn't even here yet. All your neg thinking sure won't help.

I shot some long draw shots today. I only play once or maybe twice a week. It never started well but ended good since I know what I'm doing. If I play tomorrow It will only get better. It may not start well again, I don't care. It takes some warm up time.

Rod
 
No big deal about follows stops or whatever but it's always been fascinating about draws. Against the law of nature when the ball spins backwards. If I'm not wrong I recall a super pro Kuo or Efren can't remember, who mentioned that ultimately we want to get the ball react the way we want it to be and not worry too much about dropping elbows. (within discipline of course)

Personally I'm still subconciously aware about my elbow from time to time. I don't think that's good anyway.
 
Here's something I've always wondered about... hopefully one of the instructors out there spot this and have advice.

I can do what I want with the cue ball every time, just shooting normally. Lately I've been trying stuff like a definite pause before the final swing, fewer/no practice swings, and a 'quieter' elbow.

When I do a pause before the final swing and I need serious draw (6+ feet from 6ish feet away) I just can't do it. If I do one smooth motion from backswing to forward swing I can do it all day, but with a pause... something breaks and I'm lucky if I go 2 feet.

Closer up, where I need less force, I can pause and draw pretty well. Often I overcook it.

Dunno if this has much to do with DCP's draw but it might help to experiment with less/more pause. Or maybe that's bad advice and the pros would say always pause.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
that i always struggle with, i was drilling them tonight! and getting whitey to pretty much come straight back. the speed control wasnt quite there yet, but at least i was making them.

DCP

p.s. who knows, might miss them by a mile tomorrow, just have to see, dunno...........:confused:
Click to expand...

I used to practice Scott Lee's draw drill every day. I just took away the 3 balls as that took too much time to setup.

You are not going to learn the low-and-level draw overnight. It takes a lot of repetition.

What helped me with distance was to visualize the cueball spinning after it made contact and just before it started coming back up the table. If you can learn to visualize the spin, you can start to learn speed control.

Good luck, WW
 
CreeDo said:
Here's something I've always wondered about... hopefully one of the instructors out there spot this and have advice.

I can do what I want with the cue ball every time, just shooting normally. Lately I've been trying stuff like a definite pause before the final swing, fewer/no practice swings, and a 'quieter' elbow.

When I do a pause before the final swing and I need serious draw (6+ feet from 6ish feet away) I just can't do it. If I do one smooth motion from backswing to forward swing I can do it all day, but with a pause... something breaks and I'm lucky if I go 2 feet.

Closer up, where I need less force, I can pause and draw pretty well. Often I overcook it.

Dunno if this has much to do with DCP's draw but it might help to experiment with less/more pause. Or maybe that's bad advice and the pros would say always pause.
Click to expand...

when i make a discernible pause, for about 1 second, i just lose everything. its my understanding a pause can be for .01 of a second, or 2-3 seconds.

like you, i am better with the one smooth motion. just having a hard time obtaining that one relaxed, smooth motion.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
when i make a discernible pause, for about 1 second, i just lose everything. its my understanding a pause can be for .01 of a second, or 2-3 seconds.

like you, i am better with the one smooth motion. just having a hard time obtaining that one relaxed, smooth motion.

DCP
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Mike: The "pause" is a transfer of motion and muscles not a time elapse. The stroke should have two very different motions. One back and one forward, that is two smooth motions, not one.....SPF=randyg

PS: In Training with your Mother Drills you might want to make the "pause" very noticable.
 
CreeDo said:
Here's something I've always wondered about... hopefully one of the instructors out there spot this and have advice.

I can do what I want with the cue ball every time, just shooting normally. Lately I've been trying stuff like a definite pause before the final swing, fewer/no practice swings, and a 'quieter' elbow.

When I do a pause before the final swing and I need serious draw (6+ feet from 6ish feet away) I just can't do it. If I do one smooth motion from backswing to forward swing I can do it all day, but with a pause... something breaks and I'm lucky if I go 2 feet.

Closer up, where I need less force, I can pause and draw pretty well. Often I overcook it.

Dunno if this has much to do with DCP's draw but it might help to experiment with less/more pause. Or maybe that's bad advice and the pros would say always pause.
Click to expand...

If you aren't already, take the pause with the tip near the contact point on the cue ball, then a slow, straight backswing, smoothly transitioning into the forward swing with acceleration. Complete with a full follow through and finish.

Mark Wilson suggested I do it this way. Each person's pause may vary; this method usually works for me.

Flex
 
CreeDo said:
Here's something I've always wondered about... hopefully one of the instructors out there spot this and have advice.

I can do what I want with the cue ball every time, just shooting normally. Lately I've been trying stuff like a definite pause before the final swing, fewer/no practice swings, and a 'quieter' elbow.

When I do a pause before the final swing and I need serious draw (6+ feet from 6ish feet away) I just can't do it. If I do one smooth motion from backswing to forward swing I can do it all day, but with a pause... something breaks and I'm lucky if I go 2 feet.

Closer up, where I need less force, I can pause and draw pretty well. Often I overcook it.

Dunno if this has much to do with DCP's draw but it might help to experiment with less/more pause. Or maybe that's bad advice and the pros would say always pause.
Click to expand...
Many people misunderstood that by stroking fast without pause they get more power into the draws. But in nature fact the actual acceleration or power only begins after the pause (every individual has different pause timings), what's finally being imparted to the CB after follow through in order to make the CB spin back. Here meaning how well one execute the stroke after pausing. And this mentally takes a lot of practice to getting used to.

Or else if the stroke is executed hastily, then most likely it ends up as a punch and the CB won't spin or probably just spin a bit, more like a stun shot.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
that i always struggle with, i was drilling them tonight! and getting whitey to pretty much come straight back. the speed control wasnt quite there yet, but at least i was making them.

DCP

p.s. who knows, might miss them by a mile tomorrow, just have to see, dunno...........:confused:
Click to expand...

I know I'm gonna get negative-repped to death for saying this.... but my perception is you post a lot of comments like this in the main section. At one time, I recall there were 5 posts on the first page from you with small comments like this.

You have a right to post like everyone else, believe me, but you don't have to report back by posting junk like this in the main section. If you made a draw shot today, congrats--- but don't create a new topic to say you made a draw shot.... it makes finding the interesting topics harder to find for the 99.99% of us who can draw the cue ball.

Go ahead and flame me in and torch me to death... I'm stepping into the line of fire and sacrificing myself on behalf of the others who feel the same way but are too embarrassed to say anything.

READY....AIM.......:eek:
 
randyg said:
Mike: PS: In Training with your Mother Drills you might want to make the "pause" very noticable.
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thats a good idea there, Mr. G! going to incorporate that into my MD practice tonight.........;)

DCP
 
Spider, you've got a point, but I think that's a bit harsh. The dude just wants a little positive feedback, and there are probably dozens of users on here who also struggle with the same stuff.

Threads like this tend to start out useless and end up generating something worth reading like the pause thing.
 
CreeDo said:
Spider, you've got a point, but I think that's a bit harsh. The dude just wants a little positive feedback, and there are probably dozens of users on here who also struggle with the same stuff.

Threads like this tend to start out useless and end up generating something worth reading like the pause thing.
Click to expand...

It wasn't my intent to be harsh-- my apologies. I re-read my post and since I used the word junk - it came across wrong (bad word choice). I have nothing against DCP, I just see a LOT of posts with really cryptic meanings -- one was even on some 70's TV show and was really weird. Many have shots he has trouble with that are way past his ability, and most of ours as well (%-wise).

The theme what I was getting at is until AZB sets up an INSTRUCTION section, limit the "HEY I CAN DRAW THE CB TODAY" posts to a super-minimum. If they have an IPT section that is pretty much dead-- WHY NOT setup an instruction section where instructors can answer questions and funnel people into paying for real in-person lessons? It'd be a win/win for all parties involved.

It's a win for the people who liked the Main Section the way it was - with action reports, gambling stories, bios, tournament reports, etc, without the "I can't jack-up and draw 6' into a 6" window on the other side of the table" posts or the "Hey, I can draw today -- who knows tomorrow" posts, it's a win for DCP and the other students looking for info, and finally it's a win for guys like Scott Lee and others looking to build up their client-base and/or enabling others to assist those seeking help.

It's DEFINITELY time to create a separate section for this (I hope AZB is reading this)... that was my real point.

The last GOOD piece of instruction posted that made a lot of us smile with joy was Colin Colenso's clip on BHE pivot-points. I've been using back hand english for years and never knew how the pivot-point affected the shot the way it does. Holy-grail topics like that belong in the main section-- "Hey mom, watch me draw the cue ball" posts belong in an instruction section....any section, actually... just not the main one.

Sorry DCP for sounding harsh earlier... I didn't mean it nor am I trying to hurt your feelings because I know you mean well.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
when i make a discernible pause, for about 1 second, i just lose everything. its my understanding a pause can be for .01 of a second, or 2-3 seconds.

like you, i am better with the one smooth motion. just having a hard time obtaining that one relaxed, smooth motion.

DCP
Click to expand...

DCP,
I just LOVE the "underhand softball toss" analogy. Once your mechanics are solid; try incorporating the feeling and rhythm of a gentle underhand softball/baseball toss - straight back, then straight forward. It makes the swing feel like a one-piece motion instead of multiple different motions - takes a LOT of tension out of the stroke. When you toss the ball, there is no long pause at the end of the backswing, just a nice gentle transition. Good luck.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
that i always struggle with, i was drilling them tonight! and getting whitey to pretty much come straight back. the speed control wasnt quite there yet, but at least i was making them.

DCP

p.s. who knows, might miss them by a mile tomorrow, just have to see, dunno...........:confused:
Click to expand...

So how did you manage to run 15 racks a few weeks ago if you are still struggling with this shot?
 
So how did you manage to run 15 racks a few weeks ago if you are still struggling with this shot?
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Ummm...well thats a point.

I saw that thread as well CueT...not sure I replied,but I meant too...

The fact of the matter is this:
Either you can run rack after rack...or
Playing a ball with draw is a struggle....

There is indeed no imaginary land in between.
 
not 15 in a row

I believe it was not 15 racks in a row that he ran. The 15
was total for the day or (long) session. I remember reading
that post and initially getting the same idea, and saying to
myself "What?". Then in sank in.

Anyway...
 
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